Have you ever wondered about the challenges and sacrifices an athlete has to make to pursue their dreams? Listen in for a glimpse into the world of Idan Kugel, a former professional football player from Israel who transitioned into the military. He shares his unique journey of trying to balance his love for football and the responsibility of military service, and the tough choices he had to make under his father’s influence. His story is an intriguing exploration of the evolution of professionalism in football in Israel, a testament to his unwavering dedication and the personal connection he shares with his older brother, who also served in the army.
Tune in to learn more about:
- His sporting career and the hurdles strewn along his path
- The demotivating dynamics of Israel’s football structure during his formative years
- Leaving football for the army and the mental conflicts that arose with this decision
- A glimpse into the military way of life for rookies and his evolution during his three transformative years in the army
- Unravelling the grip of football addiction and identity
- Traits from his sporting career that served him as a combat soldier and what he had to leave behind
- If he foresaw the trajectory of his post military service period
- Idan’s affinity for struggle and how it energizes and sustains his drive
- His triumphant return to sports by impacting the lives of young athletes
- Key traits that determine the winning mentality echoing from his battlefield and sports journey
… and so much more!
Are you looking for Career Clarity for your next step, for more information, or to book a consultancy, make sure you check out www.2ndwind.io
Links:
Have you ever wondered about the challenges and sacrifices an athlete has to make to pursue their dreams? Listen in for a glimpse into the world of Idan Kugel, a former professional football player from Israel who transitioned into the military. He shares his unique journey of trying to balance his love for football and the responsibility of military service, and the tough choices he had to make under his father’s influence. His story is an intriguing exploration of the evolution of professionalism in football in Israel, a testament to his unwavering dedication and the personal connection he shares with his older brother, who also served in the army.
Tune in to learn more about:
- His sporting career and the hurdles strewn along his path
- The demotivating dynamics of Israel’s football structure during his formative years
- Leaving football for the army and the mental conflicts that arose with this decision
- A glimpse into the military way of life for rookies and his evolution during his three transformative years in the army
- Unravelling the grip of football addiction and identity
- Traits from his sporting career that served him as a combat soldier and what he had to leave behind
- If he foresaw the trajectory of his post military service period
- Idan’s affinity for struggle and how it energizes and sustains his drive
- His triumphant return to sports by impacting the lives of young athletes
- Key traits that determine the winning mentality echoing from his battlefield and sports journey
… and so much more!
Are you looking for Career Clarity for your next step, for more information, or to book a consultancy, make sure you check out www.2ndwind.io
Links:
So I've started the 2018-2019 season as the vice captain of the Under-21s, one of the squad players in the first team. It was really rough keeps being professional in football and, at the same time, processing about the Army. I had to say my main conflict was due to the reason that my dad he was in the I think the hardest war Israel has ever had and he was a commander in that war. So he pushed me to become actually a footballer. He told me don't go to be a combat soldier in the Israeli Army, not because he didn't believe in it, but he told me, like I fought so you can play football and I have to say my older brother had a big influence there, so I'm really connected to him personally and he was in an elite unit, also in the Army, as a combat soldier. So I was sitting for three months and thinking, if I will go to football, this and this may be happy.
Speaker 3:Hi, I'm Ryan Gunn-Salvers and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people after all. Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
Speaker 1:Hi, my name is Idan Kugel and welcome to the Second Wind Academy podcast.
Speaker 2:Good man, that's perfect. Idan welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, Ryan. How are you today?
Speaker 2:Thanks for asking. I am doing really well. Today has been a good day for me and I know we're just kicking into my evening, but it looks like the sun is shining for you, so I'm looking forward to this conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm actually midday here, so I want to go on and define my day as great, but it's going well up until now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right. Hey well, listen, we're going to make this next 30 minutes one of the highlights of your day, so we're going to do that. I'm really looking forward to this conversation, as I said, and one of the reasons being is sort of where you are to your history of military and sport, and then three, just the way that you've been able to pull those together to support the next generation of athletes kicking through. So you'll be great to sort of delve into some of those things with you over the next few minutes. I'm only overseas right, brilliant. So listen, idan, just give me that summary, just tell me about you, to start with, what you're doing and where you are as well.
Speaker 1:Well, I can tell you for a start like up until I started playing football, until my military service. How does that sound?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1:Okay, great. So I've started playing professional football at an under nine level in a team who's called Hapu El Ra'anana it's the local team here in Ra'anana, the city I live, and I used to play over there until I think I was 13. And when I was 13, I had a little bit of struggling with my parents getting divorced and certainly that wasn't easy. And I have to say I needed way more support, which I know the club does have today. At those ages I had absolutely no energy coming to practice. I took it really hard. I mean, that's confusing teenage age, that you're not certain about your definition and your parents playing up, even though it was the right thing to do, definitely was a little bit confusing. And I later quit football for like probably one month or so and moved to the next door club in Apollo Italy.
Speaker 1:I wanted to play in like an amateur level I wouldn't say amateur, but like half pro level thinking that what I was going to do. But the second I got to Apollo Italy. They have recognized my talent and upgraded me into the under 14th team over there. After that I spent like four years getting offers from I wouldn't say the biggest club in Israel, but let's say, the second division biggest clubs in Israel, apollo, tel Aviv, apollo, ramata Sharon, some of those clubs. And every year I tried to move to a different club, but it was kind of difficult as I was the team captain and one of the leaders of both the under 13th and under 14th and each year, you know, under 14th and under 15th and so on and so on until I advanced into an under 17 level. In that level I already played with the under 21s in Apollo, italy.
Speaker 2:So let me ask at this point so under 17,? So thinking about you are a journey of under 17. Clearly you were a good player, your captain of your local team. You know in the academy that professional club, were you still attending school at this time?
Speaker 1:Well, I have to say that I was attending school but I had a lot of mornings that my mom didn't know about at the time that I used to go to the pitch instead of I don't know sports class, literary class, I don't know, hebrew class, whatever, whatever was that day, I would skip class and, yes, definitely go to the football pitch practising. I would work really hard in the gym ever since I was 15, took my career really professionally, I think when I was playing at an under 17 level I used to train nine or ten times a week.
Speaker 2:And so in Israel. So just help me to understand a little bit. How professional is the game when you're, at that, under 17 and under 21 level?
Speaker 1:Well, the favourite sport in Israel is football. So it is professional. But I would have to say that in comparison, let's say, to the big Europe countries, it's probably not as professional as there is in Europe in those levels Today. The football in Israel in those ages is already fully professional. But in my days, let's say eight years back, you had to be professional on your own and if you want to be professional on your own, nobody's going to push you there. There wouldn't be extra facilities for you to train at, let's say, yeah.
Speaker 2:So how clear were you in what you wanted to be or what you wanted football to give you at that time? What was your dream?
Speaker 1:Well, I have to say, when I was 13 and moving from a Polarah and Anna to my, from my first club to the second club, I wasn't expecting or thinking about professional football. But after one good season, my coach was even my educator, and I mean the coach that took me to the under 14th level. This coach, he told me you have two roads to go. You're in a junction. You have two roads to go. You can go the right side, which is professional, or you can go the left side, which is amateur. It's okay if you go amateur. I still love you as a player, I still value you as a person. But if you decide to go professional, I'm going to help you by offering you to the biggest clubs in Israel. And he did. He offered me to a Poltavaiv.
Speaker 1:I spent two in one of the biggest clubs in Israel, one of the biggest academies in Israel. They actually wanted me in, but I'm afraid that the club that I was at he was at a point that he could demand money for my card player player card. Sorry. The amount of money that they demanded was too big for a Poltavaiv to pay at those times. I think it was something like if we use US dollars. It was something like 4,000 US dollars at that time, which was not acceptable for a youth player, certainly not the one that is coming from a relatively small club.
Speaker 2:So how did that change your career path? For you as a player?
Speaker 1:For me just limited my opportunities in Israel. I have to say that season after season, I always try to get the offer that I wanted for my player card, but I'm afraid that it didn't work. Season after season, the club tried to keep me happy by letting me play in both teams, which was actually a mistake, because when I was at an under 17 level, I used to play with the under 21s. I told you, as I told you before, I actually broke my ankle and that was the first time out of four times in the next two years that I broke my ankle.
Speaker 2:Right, okay.
Speaker 1:So I was at a 16 year old I used to play I don't know 50 games playing maybe Friday, both Friday and Saturday. In Israel we have soccer on Saturday, not on Sunday as England and Australia may have, and I used to play both Friday and Saturday, which was really rough. They would actually change the under 17s game. So me and another player that one of my friends, one of my teammates, could play both on the under 17s and under 21s. In my opinion now, from a mature reflection, I can tell that I've probably should have played only for the under 21s, which I was also a starting player over there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and so these injuries.
Speaker 1:But no, regrets you know.
Speaker 2:Well, I was going to say from your perspective. Now, you had that view of wanting to be a professional football player. It sounds like you made that happen yourself. Did you have to work at the same time? Did you have to have another job so you could live? What was life like for you then?
Speaker 1:Well, I mainly trained myself. I know that it's definitely better to take, you know, like a private coach or maybe fitness trainer, but I couldn't afford that. My parents, they afford for me football, they afford for me all the equipment. I've grown from childhood to maturity I had everything. Okay, I'm the last one to complain, but we weren't at a level that we can, that my parents could afford the extra coaches. So I just saw stuff online, saw stuff on YouTube, advised with my fitness coach from the club and did the extra training myself. Yeah, I saw myself as a pro, even though it wasn't the case for all the kids in the club.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, if I understand, you were full time into football, even though you weren't necessarily being paid a full time salary?
Speaker 1:Well, I wasn't paid. I never got paid up until I was 17. When I got injured, the club did finance my whole recovery. And the second time, third time, first time all of them because it was in my contract which I signed when I was 17. But it wasn't like a professional top contract. The club didn't pay for everything else. I used to get small amounts from football. Usually I took it to finance my day, my traveling to the training or coming back from training. Maybe sometimes I had a girlfriend back then. Maybe sometimes I take her for dinner. My brother abused her present but I didn't have the money, didn't last.
Speaker 2:No, no, I guess not, but it's interesting. You were able to, I guess, create a full-time life, a professional career, for yourself in Israel at that time. So, in terms of the club itself, where was the club? In terms of leagues, divisions, how did that operate? Talk me through what the Israel football structure was like back then.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I grew up in the first division, paul Ranana was playing in the first division, but when I moved to Apollo I played second division, but, as I told you, always with the year above, you can call it with the extra level, with the more mature guys, but it still was second division. I wanted to play first division, even if it was my age. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and I got to an under-21 level after recovering from all the injuries playing in the second division. But we've made Apollo actually one of the best clubs in the second division, which definitely wasn't. When I came in, when I was at the under-17 team, playing both in the under-21s, we were third division and in that season we made the qualification into the second division. The year after, which was my last year in football, when I left and soon, I guess, we will discuss this but when I left, we actually were second in the table as a new team in the league, right, okay, so just there, and that's an interesting point for us to consider.
Speaker 2:So your plan, your focus, had been really to try and make the club perhaps promoted, moving to that first tier, for you to move with them as a professional footballer, a self-created professional footballer. That was the plan, but that changed. That changed 2018. You were leaving. Talk to me through that transition and how did that make you feel?
Speaker 1:I'm actually really impressed that you remembered the year. But yeah, I've started the 2018-2019 season training mostly with the first team of the club, which was at third division level in Israel, which is still professional, but it's not at the high levels as I aspire to be at. And I started my year there training with the first team, playing with the under-21s, mainly, sometimes included in the squad of the first team. Not even one cap, not one official cap. I didn't make it.
Speaker 1:But in order to answer your question, I have to say that my main focus was football, but I still struggled with my process in the army. I've started processing myself in the army, or the army started processing me, ever since I was 16 and a half, I think, and right now we're talking about 18 and, let's say, a little over 18. And from that point, the army has set me to be in a combat unit. So I had to decide if I'm going to fight with the army, which a little hard, but it's definitely possible. And I have to say, my mom worked in the Israel Security Office and it's classified. You won't talk about it, but she could probably help me in the army. But I will soon tell the rest, but you probably can know where is this going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, please listen, continue, tell me about that, but actually, before you do, how hard was that decision for you to leave football and move into the army?
Speaker 1:Well, is that okay if I'll speak not on the decision, but like a little pre to the decision? Sure, on the time, yeah, go for it. So I've started the 2018-2019 season as the vice captain of the under 21s, one of the squad players in the first team, but it was really rough keeping sorry, being professional in football and, at the same time, processing about the army. I have to say my main conflict was due to the reason that my dad he was in the I think, the hardest war Israel has ever had and he was a commander in that war so he pushed me to become actually a footballer. He told me don't go to be a combat soldier in the Israeli army. No, because, not because he didn't believe in it, but he told me, like I fought so you can play football. And I have to say my older brother had a big influence there Also. I'm really connected to him personally and he was in an elite unit, also in the army, as a combat soldier.
Speaker 1:So I was sitting for three months and thinking, if I will go to football, this and this may be happen. If I will not go to football, if I will pick the other road, the road not taken for me at that moment. What will it be like? What will I lose if I go to football? What will I miss if I go to the combat life? That actually was in my head for about four months, and the day I made the decision it was actually, I think, the 10 week of the season, 10th week, the 10th game, the 10th game, and we were really like in a good position in the league. I had a contract which was due to upgrade my money and upgrade my status at the club, and the day I made the decision was after the first match we lost at the season. On that season I was captain in that game at the big stadium in Herzliya and I got to say I went to my ex-girlfriend's house after the game and I told her that I love this team so much, I love this club so much, I love football so much. I mean, I love this football. I'm never going to be unable in football, but this combat thing is something that is in our culture, it's in our tradition.
Speaker 1:In my home it's a family matter.
Speaker 1:My grandfather also was in a war for Israel and now this is my time to contribute mine, even if my father allows me not to be in the combat soldier, even if my brother advises me not to go to the combat soldier life, but that it's different times in Israel, that we can now choose not to become combat soldiers but becoming professional footballers, that it's a different time in Israel. Even while hearing all of that, and while hearing that the youth in Israel are not as excited as it used to be to go to combat service, I felt like I couldn't pass that by. I felt like I couldn't live the combat and the life and the tradition that my family owned without my mark in it. So the road for me was the combat life. I paid my dues, and when I say paid my dues, I paid money to get out of my contract With a pool of money I saved from them. That was, I think, 12 or 15 days before I got enlisted, and that was 25th of November 2018, I got enlisted to a combat unit.
Speaker 2:Wow, I mean, that's an amazing story, just you know. Thank you for walking me through that. I guess that thought process, the conversation you had with your ex-girlfriend, just emotionally, that must have been a really difficult thing to come to terms with, to be able to make that decision.
Speaker 1:Well, it wasn't an emotionally triggered time, but I'm not sure I pronounced that correctly. Let's say I'm on a, I'm on a, I'm emotionally damaged time. Okay, for me a lot of emotional baggage, but I got to say this. The decision I couldn't accept it until two weeks before my enlisting because I was so in love with football. But the decision was already made when I started my process and told the army that I'm willing to go to combat service, that I want.
Speaker 1:They don't ask you if you're willing or not willing, but they ask you if you have motivation for it. And I said that I do have motivation because I wanted to leave that option open, or that's what I told myself at the time. But actually I know all the way that combat service and combat life is just for me. But I kept being professionally football because I didn't know anything else Ever since I was 14, I used to train. I told you, let's say, seven or eight times, 15, nine or 10 times, kept up with that Ever since I was, until I got enlisted. But I knew it all the way. I knew that the combat life is for me all the way. I knew that that's the tradition, the family tradition I have to own and those times were very emotional but I got to say my family heritage was the one that was decisive at the end.
Speaker 2:And so, when you found yourself in the army, what did you miss about football?
Speaker 1:Well, I have to say that the first few months in my army service which was I will have to explain a little bit background about the army when you go inside a combat unit in the army, after two weeks you have a week which is like a survival week. It's a week of trials that determines if you go to the regular units of the army or to the special units of the place you get enlisted. My unit's name not that it's going to be recognized is Gatsar Nahal. It's in the troops, a special unit of the troops. And after that week I did, I passed the trial. I started 15 months of training, which divides into three parts. The first part is four months, the second part is three months and then you have the extra eight months, which is in a different base.
Speaker 1:You are starting the combat service life up, way up south in Israel, in a place I've never been at and in the middle of nowhere, the middle of the desert, and I don't know how much you know about Israel, but Israel is far from a desert. Okay, israel is really western in its nature and you're starting out over there. And every night when I go to sleep actually I can't go to sleep because I can only think about what. I'm sorry for the pronunciation, but what the hell is going and training? What's going with my team? What's going with my football? What player did they bring in to replace me? And actually, the player that they did bring in to replace me is right now playing at one of the biggest clubs in Israel, beit Ar Jerusalem. Maybe he moved already, but he used to play over there. I'm not following his career right now.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like when you were there, the bit you missed most was actually you wanted to know what was going on. You felt disconnected then from football. How did that change or evolve during your I guess three years in the army?
Speaker 1:Well, at first it was like a habit you need to break. It was like quit smoking. I was an addict. I was an addict of football. It was really hard that most of my team and I'm talking now about a team that is going with me from the third week of Army until the end of my Army service, which is, you said, three years, but it's two years and eight months right now in Israel and I served for two years and eight months as well, and most of them didn't even care about football, about Israeli football and football is a really big thing in Israel, even though we're not in that high level.
Speaker 1:We're not in the high levels. We only made it into one World Cup. Hopefully then the second one is coming with the next generation, which is looking really good in Israel, which I'm part of his training. I would say We'll discuss that later. I can guess, but nobody even cared. They didn't understand. Nobody was a professional footballer. There were only two friends who were interested in Israeli football.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess so. So how did you, like you say, it was breaking a habit? So football was a habit that you had to break, just like a negative one being smoking. How did you manage to break that habit? What did you do?
Speaker 1:Well, it's a little hard to explain the whole image of being in the Army, but at the minute you get into the Army, no matter what time they take your phone, they take everything from you. So I had no possibility of getting maybe an update about Israeli football, only sometimes from the commanders, who does have a phone. They don't use it around me, but they does have a phone. They use it whenever they want or whenever they can. But actually I would say the Army broke my habit because after two months I didn't even know that I'm going to follow something like.
Speaker 1:It was the two most confusing months in my life. They take everything that you're familiar with and right now, suddenly you're in the middle of the deserts, sprinting and shooting and crawling. Whenever they say. However, they say from morning, from really early in the morning, I would say 6 AM. Most of the days I didn't have a phone, but I did have a watch With me. You only have a watch from, let's say, 6 in the morning until 11 at night, and go on, and go on, and go on, and sometimes actually a lot of the time surviving weeks, which is like no phones, no, nothing. All the equipment of the Army, the vest and the helmet and everything you need, with the bullets in your vest, with you slipping away. So, week after week, I kind of got used to the fact that football was over for me and I would never leave this road that I've started to go at, this combat soldier road.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they? I had to accept it. Yeah, you had to accept it. And you mentioned that they stripped you of everything that was familiar in your life, sort of football and the routine that you had created. So what if anything from your dedication to football supported you as you moved into the Army?
Speaker 1:Well, I have to say that in terms of discipline, it was really hard coming in from football, because in football you've been a footballer yourself. You can tell me the discipline I would say is not in the highest level. It's like you can move while the coach is speaking. I couldn't move while the commander was speaking, for instance. Okay, and it's not only that. Nobody asks you to clean the toilet in football. Nobody asks you to wash the floors. Nobody asks you to, whenever you did a mistake, go for like 10 sprints and then I don't know, 150 pull-ups. Every time you made a mistake it's not only you, if you made a mistake, it's your whole team who's getting punished. So it was like 180 degrees different, totally different from the life I had before.
Speaker 1:What was helpful was the self-discipline, doing the training outside of the team training. That was already there. It was the competitiveness of football which served me in a lot of inner competitions that the party had, the party I served at. That was actually it. But the discipline part actually came from a place which I was respected. I was the team captain, you know, going inside the dressing room, but it looks at me because not all of my days I used to train with the other 21. Some of my days I used to train with the first team. But in the army you go inside the room, you look at your commander and he's like 20 squads man. Why did you look at me? So the respect wasn't the same Longer. In my service it was. But at the training part of my service definitely was very hard adjusting myself to the discipline, the competitiveness.
Speaker 2:You mentioned there that difference in respect. So as a footballer, as the captain, you had the respect, you commanded the respect when you walked in the changing room. So now in the army you didn't have any respect, or at least the commander had no respect for you. You weren't put up on that pedestal, you were the same as everybody else. How did you deal with that?
Speaker 1:At that point of the army we were talking about, let's say, the first team of the army. I wasn't even the same as everybody else. We were below most of people, we didn't have phones. The guys who were smoking, they were only allowed to smoke in very like a few minutes a day. If you're an addict of cigarettes, imagine how will that affect you during the day A lot of urges, a lot of anger. It was hard for them and it got hard for the team as well.
Speaker 1:Well, in the terms of respect, actually, I had this one commander, the superior officer of my party, which was a brilliant man, a man that I cherish up until this day now, cherish very much.
Speaker 1:I've learned a lot from him, a lot about values that nobody ever in the football world talked to me about values, or about excellence, or about commitment. Maybe commitment a few times when you know you had to. As a footballer, you probably know that sometimes you just have those games that you have to suffer to get the points. That's commitment, but it's not even close to the commitment you have to show certain activities in the army. Later on, even more when I got into operational activity, that's a different story to tell. It's hard to adjust, but I have to say, as I told you about breaking habits, you have to form a new habit and if you practice it every day for 14, 15, 18, 24 hours or so times, then after a few months you get used to it and you understand that the respect part of the army or the respecting part of your service is not this part. You are going to have to earn it and you even like the challenge a bit, I would say.
Speaker 2:Okay, what is it you liked about the challenge?
Speaker 1:Well, I got to say that the challenges that I faced me and my team through my training, through the whole 15 months training, was unbelievably hard. I told you survival weeks as long as you get on with your training, they only get harder and harder and harder and you eat less and you sleep less and you do more and you train to attack more destinations, more I don't know more surprising attacks that is coming towards you in the week. So, as it goes on, you want to say I've done this, I've done this, I'm right here and I did those 15 months and I suffered and I earned it. I earned this badge and I earned this. I don't know the name or English, but there is like this thing you put on your head. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, I think for you there's a beret. But yes, in the hat Beret, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a beret. Yeah, definitely a beret. You can put it on your shoulder or you can put it on your head. So you want to work really, really hard for that. You work really, really hard for your badge or for anything. You're any. Nobody in football ever worked even half, and no matter what level of football Even half to achieve those things. You get really proud every stage you go through. I like, for me, coming from football for a competitive sports, a very competitive sports, may I say I loved facing the challenges. I've loved climbing a mountain, looking down and saying I did this. I've went through this week and I've done something that will give me a sense that I can do anything now, that I can overcome any obstacle that will come in my way. After 15 months of training, me and my team, we climbed the biggest mountain that the training owns, one of the biggest mountains in Israel, up in the Israeli desert, up south, the south part of Israel. I wish I could describe the feeling with words, the sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can see it on your face.
Speaker 2:I can see it. I can actually see it on your face and it is coming through, like you say the pride, the passion and a level of nostalgia or memory coming through there as well. You say it set you up. You went from a competitive, professional football environment that wasn't anything like the environment that you stepped into with the army. That pushed you to your limits. Given where you got to then, how did you start to think of what was going to follow? Football and the army? How did you start to frame that next chapter for yourself?
Speaker 1:What I've told you now was actually only half of my service was my training, but after that I've become a commander. Later in my service I served in an officer position with no, I wasn't an officer officially, but I had the position of an officer and served in a complex operation that Israel had at 2021. Sorry, 2020. After that operation, I actually got released from the army and I felt that through my army service I've gained skills and values and leadership skills that will definitely help me wherever I go.
Speaker 1:I felt I'm a fighter. I'm officially a fighter, but my character, which is way more important, is a fighter character. So wherever you can, you know, throw me. Wherever you can not pay me, you can do anything to me right now. But I actually faced a way bigger challenge not so long ago and, even if it was long ago, I faced that challenge. So I have a sense that I can do anything right now, that I can face everything, and I got to say the most probably efficient skill or sense I've got from the army is this sense that you're capable of facing any obstacle that will come in your way and that sense you didn't have it.
Speaker 2:It sounds well actually, in terms of football. You set yourself up that character, that strength, that fight in order to captain the under 21s at such a young age and find yourself training with the first team. So you had that fight, that was in you. It sounds like the army did something different to you. It ignited it to that next level.
Speaker 1:The army made me believe that I could break any, any bear, that I will see, that I can crush any challenge. The army made me believe that, no matter what I do, if I will put in enough hard work, I will make it happen.
Speaker 2:And again, I guess just hitting you up at that point, I know we were just talking briefly about the progress you made in the army, acting as an officer and moving on. Did you know at the end of your service, how much did you know what you were going to achieve next? How did you know, what did you design or create for yourself for what your next path was going to be?
Speaker 1:Well, it's funny because we're interviewing right now about a podcast inside a podcast and right until I wouldn't say before, right before my release, because before my release I spent six weeks inside the West Bank fighting for Israel in the operational army that we had in those times. But in the period of time before that, the times I used to listen to this one podcast of a mental coach, a famous mental coach in Israel, and I've started, and then you know it was. It was an ex-footballer whose career got cut in the middle because he got injured injured badly, and I actually got really inspired of what he's doing and actually get really excited of what he's doing. And I wasn't even thinking about going back to professional football, but I was thinking how can I affect professional football in Israel? How can I improve professional football in Israel, and not only professional football in Israel?
Speaker 1:How can I improve the lives of so many people in Israel, which is, I gotta say, fairly incorporation to different Western countries, is kind of hard no excuses though, yes, but it's kind of hard with all the wars and then all the enemies around us.
Speaker 1:How can I affect them? How can I help them make their life better, and actually how can I help them to gain the mental strength, the mental power, the mental stability that I've gained in the last three, four, five years? And I, whenever, when I met this mental coach, when I've listened to his podcast, it was so exciting and inspiring that I had I had to say I'm going to affect people in that way. I'm going to take the present that present, yes, even though it came with suffering, but most of the presents in life are coming with suffering the present that the Army gave me, the present that my footballing career gave me, even though at the end it was a disappointment. How can I take those presents and maybe scape a little few other presents in the Israeli society and maybe in the world society even, which I aspire to be at definitely?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I like that. You know, in fact, what I really love about that is, whilst you were being impacted by that speaker who had, you know, a similar life to yourself in the sense he was a footballer. I had passion for football, and that ended or was interrupted for you. Your football career was well interrupted ended by the military service but what resonated, as you were relating to that story, is how you could then take that and impact others and support other people coming through. So when you left, what did you do?
Speaker 1:Well, after I left the Army, first of all I took a trip to Europe. Let's chill a little bit, you know, let's take a little vacation. I've just been in a very, very intensive frame for a long time, so now it's my time for like a week or so to chill. And then I got an offer, a really interesting offer, to actually become a combat soldier instructor. It's not for people who serve in the Army, it's for youth that want to prepare for serving in the Army and want to achieve their goal, which is to get inside the Army's top units, elite units. How did you get that offer?
Speaker 1:Well, actually, this one guy my older brother used to train for this one guy, preparing for his service, and when I got released he told me, like, let's sit down and chat. After he told me, let's sit down and chat, he didn't offer me anything. Yet he told me okay, the interview went well, now I want to see you coach. So he sent me I'm sorry with one of his managers to do a little part of a well-trained team in the Central of Israel, not in Rai-Nana, in a city called Shoham. I've done a part of the training, never done it before, as the instructor, of course, and after finishing this training, the manager asked me to start a new team in a city which is really low, motivated to combat service in Israel, and at the beginning he offered me this different city. And then I can tell, I could tell that opening a new group of this kind of youth which is motivated or not, even motivated, just going to be a combat service soldiers.
Speaker 1:Very, very soon I saw the challenge of the low motivated city and I got to say I had to take that challenge. I had to take those problematic kids and turn them into soldiers, into fighters. And I'm not talking like only let's call it by the job, I'm talking the character, talking about the character. I'm talking about developing the character of the fighter, of the soldier that I want them to have, not only for the service but also for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 2:So I mean that's interesting. You talk about that passion, that wanting to go and make an impact using your network or at least through your brother, and meeting someone and finding that opportunity. How did it feel? What made you think you were going to be good at that job?
Speaker 1:Well, I got to say I had a really good time being a commander in the Army. I was most of the time the leader of my football team and I always felt like I have the leadership inside me. But I don't want to talk as much about that as being a leader, naturally, as much as I want to talk about I knew that I'm going to work hard. I knew that I'm going to struggle and I didn't only knew that the obstacles are going to come, I already was waiting for you. That was, like you can kind of call it, the search career I have kind of with football and then the Army, and I had a little more experience than most of the people at my age at the time with careers and with obstacles and with facing a struggle.
Speaker 1:And we talked about habits before. I have the habits of going inside a struggle. I love a struggle. I need a good struggle If I'm going through a year and I didn't have a really big struggle and something is missing, something is weird, something is not at its place. So I waited for the challenges and my commanding and my leadership let's call it perspective was always, always being what you want them to become Become an example for them. I went with everything. I believe I never even compromised, not even for a second, and I'm proud to say that I had two teams, not on one, two combats, two elite unit candidates team inside that city, that low motivated city, which was one medium sized and the other one was large. I had a really good year back then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. I wonder. You said you wait for the struggle to come to you every year or every opportunity, and I wonder, if you do, you wait or do you go looking for it? What do you say?
Speaker 1:Well, I would say that let's start with that year we were talking about. So the year I used to work for Excellent the name of the company I actually didn't wait for a struggle. I went and attack it because I had to get guys in. I had to get guys in to try to do a training that isn't free and only to try what you're going to process. If you will pay and schedule and attend this, I wouldn't call it a course, this group. So the struggle was getting out and find guys. Getting out and find girls. Now we have also girls in Israel, who is combat soldiers, not in every position that the guys can take, of course, but they certainly have important positions to go through. So I had one team for women and one team for men and finding the women.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm actually curious, because you'd had experience as a commander, that leadership, that was something that you knew you could do. You had that struggle inside of you that you were prepared to go and compete. But here you're talking about recruiting. You're talking about selling an idea to a group of individuals who aren't even thinking that, who aren't thinking about army, aren't thinking about that high achievement. How did you know that you could recruit?
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, I have to say, not all of them was low motivated. Some of them were coming to me as a definitely high motivated guys to go into combat service. But this particular city, I had to face the challenge that if you go to their school and talking about, and you're talking with them which was possible, and I did it and you're talking to them about combat service, they will laugh in your face. They actually laughed in my face. Okay, it was I wouldn't say embarrassing, because I'm not the type of person that gets embarrassed that easily but it was not not cheering?
Speaker 2:How did you know you're going to be successful, or didn't you know you're going to be successful?
Speaker 1:I had to know, never even occurred to me. I have a different definition to success. If you're talking about the definition that is acceptable in the world to success, then I didn't know and I didn't even thought about it After that. My mental course I always kept. I'm reading up until this day, 30 minutes each morning, to learn more, to have more tools to help the society with, to help the people.
Speaker 1:My cause is definitely helping people becoming the best version of themselves and for me, success is doing my maximum at all times and the outer success, the acceptable definition for success, you can say in the company. It came later, but it's first. The first thing you have to do is have not compromised even a bit in your values, with your principles. I've done that. For me that was successful. Stepping out from my comfort zone and helping those kids, those teenagers, stepping out from their comfort zones week in, week out, that was successful for me. The kids they come after that recruiting. It was hard but I told myself you're going to do the best that you can do. You're going to take your three principles of life, you take your three values of life and you're going to match them every single day and if the results come they will. If they will not come, so be it.
Speaker 2:You've done what you need to do. It's an amazing confidence that you took into that role, into that new part of your career. I think that's quite amazing, and part of it was done by redefining or defining success for yourself and living by that, rather than taking it from someone else. Now I'm conscious of time and I'm conscious of your day as well, and I'm interested, then, in how you started to move back towards the athletes and how you started to make that impact.
Speaker 1:Well, some of the guys that were inside my team I trained back then the group of elite unit candidates had friends which were footballers and I was a mental coach. So they had a bad season or they had a bad period or something, and I've started training like two or three kids who were playing football in this low motivated city, which happens to be the most motivated city for footballers in Israel. They find my me, of course, but it's very familiar in Israel that this city producing footballers. I've started training them one-on-one sessions for one time, for two times, three times. They actually loved it. Then I started doing lectures, both under the company I've worked at and both on my own. Stepta opened this small business for lecturers and one-on-one sessions, mental sessions, of course. I've done this one lecture in a medium-sized club which is called Apoor for Asaba, and after I was done with the lecture I went inside the coaching room and the professional manager. He offered me to become the mental coach of the other 17s at that time. After that I've saved actually enough money to finally go to the common trip that everybody or ex-soldiers take in Israel.
Speaker 1:I went to South America for seven months. A different drift, totally different drift, but I felt like if I wouldn't do that now and I have a lot of goals to set up in life I will always have something to miss out on. It will always be problematic to go. So I'm going now, so later I will not have to think about why didn't I go. And actually this trip it was amazing met the love of my life, not met there over there, but we got back together over there. You can say no need to get into that right now, when I get back. Actually, chen, if you're watching, I love you baby. Anyway, when I got back, I reached out to the coach, to the manager, and the coach that offered me the job Back then he told me that he was going to coach the under 16s this isn't at the first division league in Israel and that the team will have to work really hard, not only to stay in the league but to achieve its goals, which is high demand If I want to join this journey and I did.
Speaker 2:That's good. I like the way that that flowed. You took time out, you got to. I guess I want to delve a little bit into that. But then coming back in and finding then this I guess you've now stepped into this career in that athlete, that mental skills coach. I'm curious, though you know you football to army, to combat trainer. Then you took that seven months, seven months off. What did you hope to achieve from that seven months of travel and experience in South America?
Speaker 1:Well, actually, I wanted first of all, for the first time in my life, to feel free. Ever since I was nine, you can say that I kind of had two jobs in the army. It's one job, but it's like you can. You can, you know, match it up to three or four jobs, I don't know. So, and when I got released, I was also working in an extra job, not only in the, in the to finance myself, not only in the group of combat elite unit candidates, yeah and so, yeah, I was looking for freedom, I was looking for independent, to becoming independent, and I was looking to having a once in a lifetime experience with the best friends I own in this world and to explore a different culture.
Speaker 1:I've only been, you know, in Israel and a few times in Europe, england, a few times to watch Liverpool, my favorite club, but being in South America, feeling the heart of football over there and feeling like the sporting, the different sport view that South America has, you know the passionate fighting spirit of the fans and of the players, and this you know, having fun from football. They play for fun in the league, inside the league. They don't play as the England players play, they play for fun. They have fun on the pitch, and I actually followed football and both Fucci Volley. Are you familiar with the sport? No, no, it's like. It's like volleyball, but only two on two and you can only touch with your legs and you with your shoulders or chest.
Speaker 1:You've probably seen it sometimes so I, I, we all the seven, the seven months as I was there, I played Fucci Volley, which I gained a lot from, a lot of peace of mind, not only for the vacation, but peace of mind, you know, during any execution.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I guess what I'm hearing from you is that break to go and find some freedom in South America. What you also found was a love and a passion for football and you got to see that and absorb that from the culture around you. But it sounds like through just changing the way that you were playing you found that love for yourself as well and you got that freedom. You. You got that emotional pull from playing. You know football.
Speaker 1:Yes, and also the confidence that I can arrange myself even with no language, because in South America, in South America, nobody speaks English, definitely not.
Speaker 2:Hebrew so with that, what came back? You know, you found that freedom, you found the love of your life, you found that endurance for sport again and I guess that gets us to where you are today, in back inside the game but bringing your, I guess your mental toughness to, you know, to that next generation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got to say I've never lost my love for sports, but it gave me a different perspective about sports and it's always good to know as much as you can to have a different perspective. There is this one sentence in the Israeli Torah Jewish Torah, sorry that says you can learn from anyone. Okay, it's different. In Hebrew it's actually phrased way more you know, high speaking high level speaking yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I went there to learn from anyone and I found that the learning part was amazing and I would like to like if you have something to teach me about football, I would love to hear it. If somebody who plays football only for two years have something to tell me about football, I would love to hear it. I can learn from him as well, not only from you, who has 20 years of experience in football, which is a lot, I have to say.
Speaker 2:Yes. So, given your experiences, given that and you know we've, I think we've talked about your experience to where you are today, what's next for you?
Speaker 1:We've started the season a month ago with a pod for us. We were at preseason for two months and one month at right now for inside the league. I would say that we have a lot of work to do for the season to come on Both football and both mentally about the team. We're talking about a team who last year was a losing team and had the spirit of losers I'm sorry to say, but that's the truth in the beginning of the season and are now acquiring the winner skills, the what it is to become a winner. What's a winner? What's the winner elements. Let's call it the winning mentality and then teach them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course, I teach them one by one.
Speaker 2:What are you teaching them? What are those elements of a winning mentality that you teach?
Speaker 1:Excellence, self-discipline, mental strengths, of course. Mental, like the power to face challenging, the power to love challenging challenges. Sorry, of course, hard work, I would say, but I have an explanation, a deep explanation for each one of them. Each month I take the team and I work through a different matter. I'm sorry I forgot one before. Your environment for them is the team. The environment you have with you is definitely a part of becoming a winner. You have to put yourself in an environment of excellence, of self-discipline, of all those stuff. The people around you will affect you in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Well, so tell me those again. Tell me, based on your experience, based on lived experience and lessons you've had in life, what are those key traits that determine this winning mentality?
Speaker 1:Let me do the phrase the most accurate way I can in English. It's mental toughness all the way, it's the ability to love the challenge you're facing, it's self-discipline, it's excellence. I don't mean being an excellent person like finishing first. I mean aspire to be better at all times, to become better than yesterday, to become better than last week, to become always better. It's a skill, it's a value. It's not about your place in the table, it's not about the results. It's about you wanting to improve your performance. That's excellence. And, as I told you, environment, the team, the people who can affect you going in the right way, which is the way of the four elements I've mentioned before, of excellence, of self-discipline, yeah that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing those. I mean, I'd probably love to delve in a little bit more in each of them Maybe that's another time for us to perhaps do that but just understanding how you get those five elements across and maybe how they've shaped you, that would be quite interesting as well, I think, to understand Well.
Speaker 1:I've read more than 100 books about self-development and about the psychology of executions, and those books gave me so much knowledge. But this knowledge, you have to do something with it. If you have knowledge in your head or in your brain and you're not using it, then it's nothing, it's not an nodule. So you have the knowledge, so what? So in my combat in the team of the pre-army guys let's call them the youth team I've started doing something with this knowledge. I've started teaching them the mental skills they will have to face, they will have to acquire in order to face the challenges. And when I've done that, I've got a lot of experience. I have my experience as a football player to share and, of course, the mental side of football. And from that knowledge, with the practice that I had, I could compare together the elements of a winner.
Speaker 2:I like that, Edan Listen. I want to say thank you for your time, Thanks for sharing your journey and your perspective with me today, and indeed all the listeners. I think this has been a really interesting episode on how got to your five traits for that winning mindset. So thanks very much for sharing with me today.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Ryan. I had to say that you were very nice during the interview and actually as a person you're very nice. If you're ever in Israel, Tel Aviv, I will take you to the beach, definitely, and teach you some Fucci Volley.
Speaker 2:That sounds good. I have to admit, I was still, to this day I'm a defender, so my technical skills are probably not as high as they could be.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm a right back, Mainly a right back. I used to play different positions but mainly a right back.
Speaker 2:Oh, we might be okay then. That sounds good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we might be the same level.
Speaker 2:Thanks again for being on the show. Super helpful, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, ryan, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to the Second Win podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwinio for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy Until next time.