Have you ever wondered what it takes to tackle a career pivot with the same force you'd tackle an opponent on the football field? Andrew, a former collegiate football star turned senior people partner in the cybersecurity industry, joins Ryan to unravel the playbook of his impressive transition. Together, they chart the course from the adrenaline of recruitment to the strategy behind talent management, offering you a seat at the table of an athlete's mind turned corporate maven.
Shifting gears from the gridiron to the corporate ladder, they unpack the emotional intelligence and tenacity required to excel in human resources. Andrew brings to light the unexpected parallels between athletic coaching and corporate mentorship, sharing how the skills honed in competitive sports serve as a strong foundation for building relationships and fostering continuous improvement in business. His candid narrative, filled with personal growth and universal lessons, will ignite your appreciation for the transformative power of sports on professional development.
This conversation highlights the importance of finding balance after hanging up the cleats, as Andrew reveals how personal hobbies and a supportive network are crucial in navigating life's transitions. Whether you're a player on the field or a professional charting your next move, this episode promises to inspire and equip you for the journey ahead. So, lace up your cleats one last time and join in for this engaging dialogue that transcends the boundaries of football and forges a path to success in the corporate world.
Are you looking for Career Clarity for your next step, for more information, or to book a consultancy, make sure you check out https://www.2ndwind.io/
Have you ever wondered what it takes to tackle a career pivot with the same force you'd tackle an opponent on the football field? Andrew, a former collegiate football star turned senior people partner in the cybersecurity industry, joins Ryan to unravel the playbook of his impressive transition. Together, they chart the course from the adrenaline of recruitment to the strategy behind talent management, offering you a seat at the table of an athlete's mind turned corporate maven.
Shifting gears from the gridiron to the corporate ladder, they unpack the emotional intelligence and tenacity required to excel in human resources. Andrew brings to light the unexpected parallels between athletic coaching and corporate mentorship, sharing how the skills honed in competitive sports serve as a strong foundation for building relationships and fostering continuous improvement in business. His candid narrative, filled with personal growth and universal lessons, will ignite your appreciation for the transformative power of sports on professional development.
This conversation highlights the importance of finding balance after hanging up the cleats, as Andrew reveals how personal hobbies and a supportive network are crucial in navigating life's transitions. Whether you're a player on the field or a professional charting your next move, this episode promises to inspire and equip you for the journey ahead. So, lace up your cleats one last time and join in for this engaging dialogue that transcends the boundaries of football and forges a path to success in the corporate world.
Are you looking for Career Clarity for your next step, for more information, or to book a consultancy, make sure you check out https://www.2ndwind.io/
When I first realized that I could go play football at the next level, at the collegiate level, I actually didn't think I could until after my junior season. So that's year 11 here in the United States and after my junior football season I actually had coaches coming to visit me at my high school and that was the biggest change. You're a high school kid, your ego gets boosted a bit. You have I had coaches come in to talk to me pretty regularly and you're leaving class to go talk to these and have conversations about joining their programs.
Speaker 1:And that was, in my opinion, the first moment where I was like wow, you know, I never really thought of myself in that way. I knew I was a good athlete for my town, but I didn't think of myself, you know, kind of branching outside of that and playing football at the next level. That was probably the moment I was like, wow, I think I could actually push. And when you have those conversations it actually pushes you to go even harder. You're like, well, now I have any kind of interest, now I want to even. I want to work harder than I was before to really get there and not one, not let myself down, but also continue to thrive and be good at that next level.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Ryan God Salvers and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people afterwards. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Andrew, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks, Pleasure pleasure being here.
Speaker 2:That is awesome. I know we haven't spoken for it'll be a couple of months and you were saying now you are one, intruding to a wonderful holiday season in the US, which is great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had the first snowfall here in the northeast United States, so there was a layer of snow on the ground. It's since melted, to my happiness.
Speaker 2:But getting into the holiday season, Well, for me in England growing up, that was snow. That was the best the snow got. It got as it came down. You rushed outside and enjoyed it, because certainly by the next day it would have been gone. So I'm guessing for you it's going to stick around a lot longer.
Speaker 1:We tend to get a few feet over the course of the winter time, so it gets a little cold and gray, but we get used to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now look, by the time this airs, you should be heading into spring and it should be nice and lovely. So, whilst we go through the conversation, feel the joys of spring and the enjoyment and excitement that brings, rather than the cold.
Speaker 1:Gotta enjoy every day. I enjoy the gray moments too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. That's good. We're having a mad heat wave down here in Australia at the moment, which is lovely. So 30, 40 degrees, which is a bit crazy, but if you buy the water you can survive that right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nothing like a nice ocean can't fix.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's it. And look today, really looking forward to hearing your perspective in. It's all about athlete career transition. That's what we're talking about here at Second Wind, and so I'm grateful that you're open to share your story, ups and downs, on where you are today and the perspective that that brings to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, honestly, I've had a really great experience in the States and playing collegiate American football. It's definitely been a journey, for sure. You know the constant ups and downs and I think we all go through them, just through sport, but for the most part it's been a lot of positive, a lot of life lessons, and I'm happy to happy to share that story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great, Great. Well, let's dive in. I suppose you're talking about the ups and downs of on the journey. Paint a picture as to where you are now. What is it you're doing now? What's your role like?
Speaker 1:It's definitely different than being out on the grid. Iron, I work in human resources. I'm not a huge fan of calling it human resources, I think it's a little outdated, but I work on the people side of the house people strategy or people operations. But currently I'm a senior people partner at a company in Boston. We're a cybersecurity company focused on intelligence, so we help provide intelligence to actually across the world. But a lot of government says well as private companies and I've worked in a few industries. But honestly, the people side you can go just about anywhere and have success and what I really care about is helping bring the business strategy to life through our people. And that's where I've found my passion post athletic career, supporting mostly the go to market side. So like sales, sales engineering, customer success, which is actually pretty interesting because a lot of those people and dynamic and personalities actually has a lot of sport ties. You know a lot of them are goal driven and goal oriented. So I'm still working with a similar group of people. It's just a little bit different environment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I bet. But now you mentioned people partner, as a you know, with HR, human resources being a bit outdated. So what does a people partner do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great question and I think for me, what a people partner does is you know, I gave that one liner of helping bring the business strategy to life through our people.
Speaker 1:But what it really comes down to is driving accountability, and what I mean by that is you have managers, directors, vice presidents, you know the C suite who's constantly driving accountability for their team, but who's driving accountability for those managers and those leaders? And that's where I actually feel like my role goes into into a staff, as I work with the managers and above, talking about what's going on in their worlds and making sure that they're providing coaching and support that we're saying is needed in order to be successful as an organization. We trust that we're bringing the right people to the conversations and into the organization, but are we developing them? It's kind of like a soccer team, football team, any kind of sports team. You know you get someone who's earlier in their career. You want to build them up because you know they have potential. I like to make sure that we are putting them in the best position to be successful and that's my role on the people partner side.
Speaker 2:I like that. I think it's well put and I like the connection that you're finding there with sports, certainly team sports, in keeping them accountable, making sure that development as athletes would move through the different ranks. Your, I guess your scene, your role as making sure that happens in a corporate perspective as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I really like that. For me, everything always comes back down to football. Doesn't matter what the situation is. We've covered it in sport, we can get there in.
Speaker 1:There's only at least one example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and you know you open up. You were talking a bit about you moving through gridiron, through American football. So I've been a Brit, been now being in Australia. We certainly see American football, gridiron, taking off. Was that something you grew up with a passion for?
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting. So it wasn't the first sport I played. I actually didn't play American football until was it year six, year seven. The first sport that I played was actually basketball, but I was always around sports. So I'm one of five boys, I'm the youngest of the five, and my middle brother actually was, you know, the star captain of the high school football team. You know he's what like the Hollywood movies are kind of made about. So he was always kind of someone that I looked up to. Growing up he played a very different position than I did. He played running back, I played defensive line, so I was the one trying to get after him and he was the one trying to run away from me. But so I've always been around the sport. But basketball was my first true love. It's something I played. I learned very quickly that a six to athletic big man wasn't what they were looking for at the next level. But it was what they were looking for and other types of sports arenas.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah. Well, how did you get into then football? How did it come about?
Speaker 1:Honestly, just my friends, my friends growing up, were like, oh, you should play football, you should. You know, that's constantly nagging me. Like you know, you should play football throughout middle school. And they're like you know. And so I eventually just tried out and I absolutely loved it. I fell in love with it. I shouldn't say right away, I fell in love with it.
Speaker 1:I still remember a conversation with that brother I was just talking to you about. After my first week of practice. He gave me a phone call. And why gave him a phone call? I was like this is the worst sport of all time, cause I was used to playing basketball. You know, basketball practice can be fun. Football practice is very different. It's a much more physical sport. You know you're hitting constantly. It's not you're not going there shooting hoops and having a good time. You know you're learning the basics, the fundamentals, and those basics and fundamentals are hard. So you know he actually told me. He said hey, stick with it, play your first game and call me after the first game. And remember we had our first scrimmage and I called him up. I said this is the greatest game of all time. I love it. It doesn't matter if, like a week or two difference. So that was probably how I really fell in love with the game. Was that experience and really pushing being out on the field on a game was really what changed it for me.
Speaker 2:Right, you know, just touching on that point, you were ready to well, you ready to give up very early on, right?
Speaker 1:Hating, hating the game.
Speaker 2:As you look back, what was it your brother said? Was there anything he said as to why you would, why you should stick it out Just that extra week?
Speaker 1:You know it's. So. You know I think that was probably one of, at least from a physical standpoint, one of the biggest challenges I've had in my life. At that point Now I'm a I don't know how old you are 10, 11 years old and you know you don't really push yourself to the limit. In football you're always pushing yourself to the limit. So I think it was just uncomfortable and I don't remember the conversation fully, but I remember him saying stick it out, trust me, it's worth it. And that actually kind of gets to something I want to talk about later, about just enjoying the process and understanding that some of the pain and some of the hard times is worth it at the end of the day when you get that reward, or even when you look back at it and just how proud you can be of yourself after accomplishing those challenges.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're quite right and it is a point and you know I'm sure we will. We will touch on that a bit later in the conversation as well. I mean, I'm curious then for you as you started progressing, clearly you were turned out that you were good. Can you remember a moment or season? Was there something that happened where it was? Oh, I'm good at this, I can go to college, I can keep playing this game.
Speaker 1:When I first realized that I could go play football at the next level, at the collegiate level, I actually didn't think I could until after my junior season. So that's year 11 here in the United States, and after my junior football season I actually had coaches coming to visit me at my high school and that was the biggest change. You know, kind of you're a high school kid, your ego gets boosted a bit, you have coaches coming. I mean, it was I had coaches coming to talk to me pretty regularly and you're leaving class to go talk to these and have conversations about joining their programs. And that was, in my opinion, the first moment where I was like, wow, you know, I never really thought of myself in that way.
Speaker 1:I knew I was a good athlete for my town, but I didn't think of myself, you know, kind of branching outside of that and playing football at the next level. You know that was probably the moment I was like, wow, I think I could actually push. And you know, when you have those conversations it actually pushes you to go even harder. You're like, well, now I have any kind of interest, now I want to even, I want to work harder than I was before to really get there, and not one not let myself down, but also continue to thrive and be good at that next level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and so you did. And how did you make your choice about which school you were going to join?
Speaker 1:And I think this is part of the piece that doesn't really get talked about a ton Is the recruiting process in general. The recruiting process is really hard and I'm actually a coach now. I work in the human resources people space, but I actually am a part-time coach high school. The town that I live in now it's a different town than I grew up in, but so I see actually kids going through the recruiting process when I share with them now because I didn't know this going through it is a lot of these colleges cast a really wide net and everyone is the greatest player that they've seen and they're talking about the opportunity. So I didn't have anyone in my life that had gone through this at that point. So I was just like, wow, I'm the best player there is and I got all these schools talking to me. But Once they started getting the real kid who was the number one on their list, the phone call started to go away. The conversation started to go down and there was really only a few schools by the end of it, at least at the level that I wanted to play. At that I had an opportunity to play football with.
Speaker 1:Bryant University was a school that offered me and throughout the process I built a good relationship with the head coach, my recruiting coordinator and, honestly, I just had a level of trust with them. So when I got that offer, I actually I accepted it pretty quickly. You know there's a lot of people who get the offer and then they put it all over social media. That wasn't who I was. You know. Some of them are trying to get more offers. Some of them are just want to show off how proud they are of getting that. For me, I really I felt like I found a place pretty early on and you know, it kind of narrowed itself down on its own for me. But for me I wanted to get. There was two things that were important to me I want a good education, I wanted to play football at a high level and Bryant provided that great opportunity for me great and you know coming through that.
Speaker 2:Then that Education how clear were you at that time that you might need the education to fall back on?
Speaker 1:I was not clear at all. I mean, I didn't know what I wanted to do post University. I had my dream set on making it to the NFL, I think. But I think every kid does the same. As soon as you say that you can play at the collegiate level, I'm sure every kid has some sense of like oh, I'm playing professional, I'm gonna support my family, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. And I think I think we'd all be lying to you if we said, oh no, I've never had that feeling. I'm in it just for the education. So people got a dream a little bit. So I definitely had that Going into Bryant. You learn pretty quickly that you were a big fish in a small pond.
Speaker 2:How do you learn that quickly? What is it about the environment that puts you in your place?
Speaker 1:So football especially, you get there before anyone else is on campus. If school starts in September. My first year at Bryant, we were there August 6th. We were there a month before any other student was there. And there are some other athletes but you're not really interacting with them.
Speaker 1:You're a practice and your schedule during preseason is every single day it's 6 am, wake up and you're not back in the dorm to fall back asleep until 10 30 at night and that's just the expectation. So, like you know, you wake up and it's very regimented, it's. You know. You got breakfast and then you have weights, then you have meetings. I actually still have it like ingrained into my head what that schedule looks like. My freshman year we actually still had two a day, so we still think we had forget the actual number, but we had two a days where we had two practices in a day Every other day for about a week or two straight, and you know.
Speaker 1:So you get about I don't know how many hours of football right away and you're an 18 year old kid going up against. You know 22 year olds, 21 year olds who have been in a college strength and conditioning program for three, four years, some of actually, you know, some of them are fifth year seniors. They're 23 years old. We've been in that program for a long time. It's also you're just, it's iron, sharpens iron because you're no longer friends with the person across.
Speaker 1:When I say friends, you become friends with them, but you're not childhood friends, you're not growing up with them down the street playing street hockey in the street. When the cars come by, you know it's a different type of friendship and you're always trying to earn that position. So when you go out there on that practice field you're going all out, every single rep, no matter what, and you know you learn pretty quickly that. Remember one moment in particular I took a double team, I guess that I played defensive line and I had our starting offensive tackle, our starting tight end, and I stood up like I didn't, I wasn't low, I wasn't following the technique that I was taught by the coach and they took advantage and like I literally I mean I was a bigger guy I was in the air like full-blown feet, horizontal, and you come down hard and I was kind of a while. I'm just kind of laying there like I think I learned. But I also think that's probably what pushed me to be better was feeling that I was like, well, that's never gonna happen again.
Speaker 2:What's wonderful about that story is, I think, the beauty we have as athletes is that a lot of the Things we learn are very physical and very ingrained in our mind. So you get in horizontal whilst you're thinking well, I thought I was the big guy here, falling back you very quickly say, okay, next play in like 30 seconds. I'm not doing that again. I'm changing right now and you have to.
Speaker 1:You know you have. I mean, there's definitely a pride thing because you know there is that Embarrassing moment of like, oh, wow, like, because we want everything in college, at least for football. Everything's filmed. So every single detail is filmed, whether it's the skill work with your position coach, or the team drills or whatever it is. Everything is filmed so that you know, I remember in the meeting room after practice we played that on replay. It's like you know we were watching me go horizontal like five times in a row.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good, you say a wonderful example of feedback, constructively playing it back so you could see where it is that you could improve. Don't in a sporting football context oh, look at this guy, that that would be a meme nowadays. Yeah, so for you? I mean, like you say, you went to Bryant, you went to a good school, you got to do one. What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 1:It was unbelievable, like especially looking back on it, I kind of knew it was a great experience. Then, looking back on it now I'm just so grateful for the opportunity to have been able to experience that and I think about the education and the professors that I have and had had built relationships with while I was there. The academic side, you know, I truly believe, is bar none, really just challenged you with real-world scenarios. A lot of the professors there were Former corporate. They're either consultants for the business world or have worked on the business side. They weren't just solely professors, just teaching you. They actually experienced it and they brought that experience back to the classroom and use that. And they were actually a lot of them were still consultants, so they were still going through new things on a regular basis and they were bringing that to the classroom. So the academic side of Bryant was sensational and I actually think that's helped progress me quicker in my career.
Speaker 1:The football side it's amazing. Like I know, I light up and I get a big smile, but the friendships that I've built from it alone. I mean there are people that I talked to Every single day, every day, who I played football with on college, my roommates still very close to. I interact with them. I have them over at my house. I'm gonna get dinner with them this week. You know, we're just. That's just who might? That's part of my life. They were in my wedding. That's my family. And then I also look at just where I got to go. Like we traveled. We flew to Multiple stadiums across the country. We played out in Montana where the plane like dropped between Mountains to land on that in the airport, played down at a with a teal turf, like it was. The turf itself was teal. Like you know, one of the schools we played had fireworks going off and in the stadium, like it's just an amazing experience.
Speaker 1:Looking back on it now and you just kind of shake your head Was that real life? Like I got to actually live that? But it really is the relationship. Our coaches always used to say it when we were there. When you look back at this, what you're gonna remember the most is the relationships and it's so true, like those are the people that are gonna be with me for the rest of my life, no matter whether they're close or far away. It was amazing. And then you know the social side is fun. You know that's the college scene in America has definitely Exciting. It's a really it's a good time. You know, you're a bunch of 18 to 20, 23 year olds who have just gone away from your parents, sometimes for the first time, and you have to go to class. You got to go to football, but at the end of the day you control the rest of it. So you know, it was definitely a very enjoyable experience and I don't regret it at all. So it was a blast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's wonderful and you know you talk there about the experience, the experiences that we have, and it's great that you had coaches who were in ability to, who had an ability to emphasise the importance of enjoying this moment, enjoying the relationships that you're creating. And you know it sounds like Through playing football you got to see some wonderful parts of the US and you got to see them in a very different way. You know the fireworks being there with the crowd, the lights and those types of things. So when you think then your dream at that point was to Make it through to the NFL, to get on the draft, to move forward and moving in that way.
Speaker 1:When did it occur?
Speaker 2:to you, that might not happen.
Speaker 1:Since we first started talking, kind of like gone through my athletic career, I started thinking about different impactful moments and I would say Probably my my freshman to sophomore year is when I realised that I wasn't going to be able to play at the next level and it goes to one. Actually, one of the most challenging points in my career is, for a bit I lost the level of the game. You know. You go from high school where you're playing constantly. I mean, I don't think I ever left the field in high school. If an American football game is 120 plays at the high school level, I was quite literally on the field for 115 of them and then you go to college. It's just a very different experience and to go from playing 95% of the game to Not even touching the field my freshman and sophomore year, it's really hard to go through practice every single day, to get beat up physically and mentally and to not feel like you had that chance to go out and show it. It was really difficult.
Speaker 1:And losing that love of the game is probably actually when I realized that I wasn't going to make it to that next level because I knew people in my grade and some of the freshmen that were coming in behind me were already playing.
Speaker 1:We're playing at that, we're playing on the field, and I was trying to fight for my spot, to get on the field. But I would actually also say that's the moment when I started improving, which is a really weird situation because I kind of knew like all right, well, you're not going to play at the NFL, but you might as well do the best you can, and just you know, there was no more pressure. I guess that's what it is. That's what it is, putting a word to it. There was no more pressure. There was no more. You need to do this to be successful. It was how about you just play the game that you love and enjoy every second of it and start focusing even more on the fundamentals and doing after practice work which I was doing already, but just even more of it. That was probably when it progressed even further and, without the pressure, things started to improve.
Speaker 2:Wow, I mean, that's really interesting To hear you put it in that way. You're talking about wanting to get on the field, wanting to be in that first team, that starting team, to make those plays, 200-odd plays in that game. But by not playing, essentially by not achieving what you want to achieve, that helped you change your perspective so that suddenly you were saying, okay, I'm going to enjoy practice, I'm going to enjoy the training. It sounds to me like you started to enjoy the process much more.
Speaker 1:It definitely is. I had a coach in high school who his favorite line was be a process guy. If he listens to this he'll probably laugh and remember exactly when he said it. He's probably still saying it. But he was like be a process guy. I asked him what do you mean by that? He said the process is 99% of everything we do. He said if you don't love the process, why the heck are you doing it? It never really clicked for me until I think actually that part of my life and in college when I went through that struggling point and just reminded myself to love the process something I continue to pass on now because he's so right. I'm sure you experienced it in your own athletic career. How many times are you just out back by yourself or working on your technique? That's all the process and the glory and what everyone thinks is the best part is really 1% of what we do. He hit the nail on the head and it's something that just clicked.
Speaker 2:What changed at that moment on the field and the practice and everything that came around it. You changed, you enjoyed it, you went into the process. Where did your mind go then in terms of, well, what will happen after college?
Speaker 1:I definitely made a switch. I started focusing on the academic side. I had some goals that I set for myself. Academically. My first semester at Bryant wasn't the best, I'll say, and I started setting goals. It put me behind a little bit and I set goals that I was going to graduate with honors. I knew I had a ways to work out of that. I started setting those goals and I did end up achieving that. I can probably say I did end up graduating with honors, dug myself out of that hole.
Speaker 1:I also started focusing on and honestly I give a lot of credit to my now wife. We actually met in college and we were dating at the time. She pushed me to get internships and work experience. Over the summers and during winter break or winter session I was constantly getting work experience before I was even in the workforce Now playing a sport and getting internships definitely created some interesting schedules. During the summertime I was waking up at 4 am, getting a workout in, coming home, showering and then driving to work for a nine to five and then going back and doing a field workout. It definitely creates some long days, but I would say the switch definitely pivoted towards focusing on my life and how can I prepare myself for what's next while not sacrificing the football side?
Speaker 2:That's a challenge, right. I come across it a lot with individuals. I'm focusing on the football. I'm focusing on that sport, working really hard. This is what I'm about. Then the realization kicks in is well, actually to make this work longer term, I need a job. I need that. It could be a nine to five, but it's a more traditional workforce role. How did you mentally switch between training? I'm doing this because, certainly, as you developed in the college career, you were playing more. How do you switch between the two?
Speaker 1:I don't know if there is a switch. What I mean by that is there's definitely a different type of person that you are on a sports field. I think there's a different level of aggression and grit that's needed. I think those characteristics, like the grittiness and resilience, the drive that you need to be successful on the field, were things that actually led to me, because I was curious.
Speaker 1:If I look at the practice field in football, the person that I was playing behind so my freshman and sophomore year when I was not getting playing time the person in front of me was probably the best football player I've ever been on a field with. Ever. He ended up going to an NFL minicamp. He was the sack leader. He is just an unbelievable person and someone I looked up to at school, but also someone that I've stayed in touch with now and I was just curious to learn from him. I would ask him questions, I would work out with him. I would say, okay, how do you put your right foot here, how do you place your hands or how do you react? Just talking through it with him to understand and learn.
Speaker 1:I think that curiosity pays off dividends in the workforce, too. I try to take the curiosity of just the wanting to learn, the want to do better and transitioning that to the corporate world, but also the grittiness being able to take feedback and saying, hey, you did this presentation really poorly. This is what I would expect, differently From the football experience. You're just constantly getting yelled at, someone's politely telling me hey, you did this poorly. I was like, okay, thanks, you move on. Some people can harp on that, but it was actually a nice change of pace for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's funny. You talk about the feedback. Again, it's a recurring theme in some respects and you talk about it a lot, I think. Do you notice it? You even said there on the football field, someone's yelling at you. So it's like okay, I know they're talking to me and I know they're telling me this is exactly it. Then you move into that corporate world and someone is politely saying hey, you got time for a little chat. I was thinking how did you find that? When you pick it up the same way, I'm like listen, is there a problem? Tell me what's going on. How did you find it?
Speaker 1:I've said that to people. I've said listen, I said I don't take things personally. It's just how I was raised through my family and sport. If I did something wrong, just tell me and I'll just take it as it is and I will do better. But I've had that experience directly where someone has asked me hey, do you mind if I provide you feedback right now? And I was just taking a back that they and I appreciated that they asked me, but I was just taking it back. I didn't know you had to ask someone for feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wonderful, isn't it? It's like, wow, sure, yeah, please do. And then we all beating around the bush and say, well, this is the nice thing, this is bad, this is not. Just just tell me what it is. You want to say, we can get this to 30 seconds, that's fine. Well, I suppose you're talking there about recognizing you, perhaps not going to make that dream, and you started that focus and you know you talk about that balance and the struggle. It's interesting to say there's not really a switch, it's sort of a continuation or a bit of a blurring that happens. What was it like for you entering then? In fact, let me ask you a different way. First, what did it feel like? Taking the pads off for the last time at college, thinking I'm not going to the NFL, I'm not in the draft, I'm not doing the mini camps? Did you know when you were going to play again? Next, how does it work?
Speaker 1:I think American football is really hard Because there is for the most part there is, but it's few and far between. There is no opportunity to put the pads back on and I didn't realize how much football made an impact in my life until I started coaching after and you know, a few multiple years after that, but I'll get to that. I think I was actually having a conversation with one of my teammates about a month ago it was actually recently after we had our first conversation and that was top of mind for me and we looked at each other and he said to me and I was thinking it and he just said it he said, to be honest, he said the post football blues were very real. And I was like he just put it in a very simple way of saying, like there is, when you remove such a big part of your life, something that's provided structure, it's provided life lessons, it's provided mentors, father figures at an early age in life, and it just gets ripped from you without any way to access it again and it just ends like you know, I don't, like I know there are in the town that I live.
Speaker 1:There are Sunday soccer or football leagues every Sunday and they're always playing on the field and there's there's pickup basketball that you can play at almost any court in the town that I live in tennis. If you go to a tennis court you can play golf. You can always find a place to play football. There's no one with pads on at the field on a random Sunday Like, hey, you want to, you want to play that, you want to play some football like it. Just, it just doesn't happen.
Speaker 1:So you know I got back into it and this is I didn't realize how much I missed it until I got back coaching. This is actually this is my third year coaching now and it's a different feeling. But honestly, it's. One of my proudest achievements within the sport is being able to coach kids through their high school experience and some of them are playing at the college level now, which is just amazing to watch. You know there's a good chunk of kids I've coached. I hope I can proudly say play defensive line in college. And you know we still talk and go through drills. They'll send me videos still. It's really exciting to be a part of. But that transition was hard. It was a really difficult feeling. It was very sad to lose such a big part of my life.
Speaker 2:Well, how did that look for you? How did that that sadness it was? It was difficult, it's challenging to put into words. So what did it mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think. Well, I know like I kind of revolted a little bit away from what football was for. Football is very regimented. You have a schedule, like I said. You know, 530 in season, my senior year, we were waking up at five o'clock, we had practice at 530. And then we had weights and then we had film and then you would class and then you kind of do it on and then you would film again. So you're just like constantly going on and then you have school work and you know, maybe you fit in a meal or two throughout the way. Like every single hour is soaked up.
Speaker 1:Once football ended, I basically just wrote. I was like, well, I'm definitely not waking up at 530 every day. So I was waking up. I jokingly say I was like now I wake up at seven and my wife thinks I'm crazy, but I was. I stayed away from the weights for a little bit. I got away from some of the things that were part of my daily routine and I've since gotten back into them. But there was a good chunk of time where I just was doing everything that I wasn't doing before and once I realized that I needed that structure, I got back into it, but it took a while to find it again.
Speaker 2:When you stepped away, finishing college, you then going into work, what did you major in? What was your degree and what was your first job then outside of that collegiate structure?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I actually I was, I was fortunate so I had a business administration but I had a concentration in human resources actually. So a lot of my classes were focused on the human resources practice. So I took classes on employment relations, on human resources management, compensation, international human resources, like some of the global aspects, and interacting with different cultures. And then I had a minor in psychology. I actually believe that that fit really nicely with understanding how humans interact with each other from a science standpoint and also tying in the business practices. That was my degree.
Speaker 1:My first job out of college I went to a company called Liberty Mutual Insurance, which is a massive organization it's around 78,000 people worldwide. When I joined and I was part of their what they called the HR development program. It was a rotational program so we spent eight months in three different jobs. So my first job was in. It was called talent management practices was the team name. That was focused on industrial organizational psychology, which is like the science side behind human resources and why we do surveys, why we ask behavioral interview questions like the actual data behind why we do certain things.
Speaker 1:My second role was employment relations where I was actually working. That's an interesting job and I will say you know you, there's a lot of performance management, so when people are struggling, but then there's also the reality is like if there's discrimination or alleged discrimination or harassment, people aren't getting along Like just human interactions in the workforce are very interesting and I'll leave that. And then my last rotation I had there was in our compensation team, which is why we make pay decisions and how we get the data behind it. I thought originally it was just kind of like, okay, you just pay people X amount of money and hope for the best, but there's a lot of data and information that goes into those decisions and how they get paid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very true. It's great that you had an opportunity to enter a large organization that was able to move you around, so you were able to experiment and explore different aspects of that human resources world.
Speaker 1:It was amazing. It was too big for me and I definitely mean it was never going to work Once I was there. It was never going to be a long term fit. It was just way too big of an organization for me. But the people that I learned from the people that I met there are some of the smartest people you'll meet in the space. They're absolutely incredible people to learn from. Some of them I actually saw one. She lives a few towns over for me. I saw her not too long ago and just like people who have made an impact in my life, but I like taking all those skills that I learned and that's how I got into the business partner side, the people partner side, and that's how I went down to the tech company that took what I learned and brought it to a smaller organization.
Speaker 2:You see that's interesting. I mean, I'm hearing three things of them already. I feel like there's going to be another one coming up whereby starting playing football, sticking it out beyond that first thought, then going to college, struggling between the freshman sophomore years, thinking hold on, this is not for me, and then ending with these wonderful, absolutely awesome experiences that kick in and here again we go great opportunity, wonderful organization, getting to move around and do these different things, but recognizing, hey, this isn't going to be for me, but at least going through it and saying, right, I'm going to go and learning, getting the learnings, the lessons from it in order for you to move forward or pass forward. Do you recognize that in yourself?
Speaker 1:Now that you say it, it's very clear. I don't think I've ever put it that way. It's such a good point. I've been very fortunate in my life where I've ended up in situations that I look back at some things and how I ended up, where I was or being in certain places at certain times and getting certain mentors or connecting with certain people in my life who became mentors. There's definitely a theme and maybe there's another one coming up of a big challenge and then into another springboard. That would be great, but there's definitely a trend. I never put it together. Now that you have, I appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because it's an ability to stick through but also to learn at the same time, and to take that and then apply it onto that next thing. So it isn't a lost opportunity. It's a great opportunity to start making the most of what you have, which are great opportunities.
Speaker 1:You know, it's interesting, one of the organizations that I was, it was a e-commerce company. They were a customer data platform and the CEO always used to say 1% done and it was a reference to a mountain, a mountain range. Essentially, it's like, once you get to the peak, you're only 1% done. There's another peak for you to climb and it's just you know, once you hit that peak again, you're only 1% done. There's always a higher mountain. I think that's kind of what you just talked about. You know, there's a challenge, you overcome it, you hit the peak and then you find that next challenge and you overcome it and then you hit the peak and then you go from there and you're just continuing to find that next challenge. I think, as athletes, I think we're driven towards those challenges. It's kind of it's part of our DNA and what makes us tick. So I'm just I think I'll always try to take advantage of those situations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so today I know you're in the, you know the people-partner role and that sounds like it's this fit, where you're working with the sales folk, the senior leaders and the roles were you doing beforehand where you didn't, where you didn't gel. What's that journey been like for you?
Speaker 1:You know I've been fortunate so since I exited, I would actually say that the roles that didn't necessarily click for me was at Liberty Mutual was at that larger organization, and it wasn't because of the company, it was the way it was structured is I was doing a lot of work behind the scenes and I was interacting with, I was getting the data or and then providing it to the business and the people-partner role. Most of my day is meeting based, so I'm meeting directly with the leaders, I'm interacting with them, I'm talking to them. Okay, like, what's your pain? Like what can we help solve? What is your team asking for? How can we build that? And there's more of a human element, a human interaction piece that I was really craving and that was the piece that was missing for me. And again, some people love that, some people want to be behind the scenes and building all these amazing tools, but I needed that. Hey, this is what we built, this is how it can help you. I like that, that handoff, and that was the piece that I was missing.
Speaker 2:And so now I mean did you know this type of role existed, I mean even through collegiate years? Did you know this type of role that even today existed?
Speaker 1:Yes, but not to the way I learned it. What I mean by that is I was I went to an organization after Liberty Mutual called Rapid 7, which is a cybersecurity company, and I was very fortunate to have multiple mentors there, but two people in particular that were incredibly, just amazing, amazing mentors for me my direct boss. She was incredible, like the way that she taught me how to operate and how to navigate tricky situations and to navigate the people strategy world the people partner world that was focused on treating people fairly and equitably and doing what's right while also navigating just tough business challenges was incredible. So, like you know my view of it in the collegiate years, I knew the role existed, but they really opened my eyes into the possibilities of what you can make it and the difference between just being good and what being great, and, I would actually say moving the needle about what, what this role can be, and I learned from people that were, you know, front runners in my eyes of what the future of the people strategy world holds.
Speaker 2:I mean that's fascinating, Again. Interesting, Having an angle, I guess, in terms of discovering or figuring out where you are, where you are at. I suppose, to flip it just a bit a bit more when you think, then, of the roles of the volume in today. What from football have you had to leave behind in order to be successful?
Speaker 1:I think emotion and what I mean by emotion is is more having control of the emotion Is there are times where you know football, you're encouraged, like if you're excited, be you know, show your excitement. If you're angry, like kind of put it out into the field and use that to your advantage. You know, in my role and I think this goes for a lot of corporate roles but even non-corporate roles I think the power of suppressing emotions and when I say suppressing emotions I don't think it's hiding it or not actually feeling the emotion, I think it's just being able to control how you're engaging with the world. So if you're having a conversation with someone and there's some really hard conversations that we have to have in my profession and if someone snaps at me in those conversations, I would say the natural football reaction is to snap back. You know, in my role, you just have to take it and you have to remain calm, you have to remain poised and respond professionally, no matter what that person says.
Speaker 1:So I would say that's probably the biggest change between, you know, the gridiron field and the corporate side for my world is I cannot respond emotionally, I have to respond dialed in and I have to respond in a way that doesn't put and I focus on the relationship. I don't want to say something to someone that impacts their view of the organization, because this may be the reality is, I deal with a lot of conversations that aren't so positive and someone's maybe they're struggling in their role and this is. You know. They're fighting for their job and I understand why they may be angry or upset, like their livelihood. I want to make sure that they felt heard, and reacting emotionally can actually just make it an argument versus giving them the platform to voice that how they're feeling, and I want to give them that space to voice how they're feeling.
Speaker 2:How did you manage that?
Speaker 1:shift Go back to the Liberty Mutual Days, the employment relations role, though that was when I met some of the great mentors to me who just navigated really tough situations, who had to ask very difficult questions in a very calm, professional way. If there were some situations that if you heard it in a comedy, you know a comedy club you'd probably laugh at of like no, that doesn't actually happen, Like this is. There's some really just crazy situations that they were constantly composed and it was something that I learned to do. And originally, when you know, when I was at my career, I was, I was more of a note taker at that point and I was listening to the conversation and I was learning from them.
Speaker 1:And then, eventually, I did take on my own calls and did it myself, but early on with them, I was really just note taking and I was similar to the football field. I was just I was asking questions how did you do this? How did you flow from this question to that one? How did you know to ask it this way, asking, how did you not laugh when they responded that way? Navigating that and learning from them was really how I made that transition. I had the benefit of being able to be on mute, so that was how I learned.
Speaker 2:The benefit of being on mute. I'm going to have to think about that because it's an interesting, you know, thought. It's the ability to actually I can just listen and you can observe, like you said, like you did in the football field, like you are doing, as you continue to develop through through your career. I mean thinking about you know yourself, to an extent, still being in the transition. When you think about your experience to date, what sorts of things do you now look back on and think I would have avoided that or that's probably didn't help me in the way that I wanted it to? Versus which things would you say? This is what myself or others should lean into to support the transition.
Speaker 1:So there's a few things that are actually outside of work that I would recommend people do make in that transition. I would find a hobby, like for me. I got back into working out, I found that routine again for me of what's important to me and staying active was important to me. I would also say I was always I grew up in a kitchen like not actually cooking in a kitchen like a professional kitchen, but in my house we were just always sitting around at the stove and having conversations. Holidays were always big for us and I would. I've actually found a huge love for for cooking and just being creative. I'm not. I'm not an artist, I'm not a writer, I definitely don't have a singing voice, but I can get creative by cooking meals and providing meals to people and loved ones in my life. So that's something that has been an absolute blast for me and finding those hobbies has been. It's helped make that transition easier because I have that passion and I have something that I really enjoy, that brings me happiness, and that's outside of work.
Speaker 1:I would also say finding ways to stay involved in the sport, and I know it's not as much of a transition but coaching is. It probably made me better at my job because there was something that was missing from me that is no longer missing, like I'm feeling, like I'm still a part of it. And, mate, you know I'm not a full-time coach, I'm not there every small day, but when I am there it recharges me in ways that I couldn't do before. And then for work, go to the meetings that you're not invited to, and what I mean by that is, even if you're just listening and you know, or you know the meeting's happening and you have an opinion, go to the meeting, you know, sit down.
Speaker 1:This was advice that I got from one of my mentors that I was talking about earlier and she shared. She said they're not going to kick you out, it's the arms, like. You know, just go and just kind of like, build the relationship, go like and obviously you have to do that the right way there's, you know, don't just go sit on at some random meeting. But now, if there's a meeting that you're working on, a project, like, find the right time to join a conversation or to push the envelope, not to just to shove your opinion to someone, but to listen and learn, understand how those conversations happen, what they're talking about, challenge yourself to be better and to learn more. It'll make the transition 100% better.
Speaker 2:Now I like those. If I play it back, what I hear is get a hobby that takes you outside of work. Do something that is different. Use sport or, because of the, probably the passion or energy that you got from sport, use sport as a way to recharge. So find a way to keep the sport in your life. And the last one there is well, I'll say, be on mute. So go into a meeting, listen, learn, and you know that those are the things that seem to be most important, at least from your experience, in terms of helping with that transition.
Speaker 1:I think one thing there's a great Ted talk that I love. If you can't learn is really big piece in my life and this Ted talk said it was about communication and it shared that a lot of people listen To respond and we should be listening to understand. And that was like one. It was just a quick line that has stayed with me for years now and I was like, wow, just change the way that I interact with people and it's something that I truly believe in and it goes towards learning is understanding why someone is asking that question and sometimes the words they're asking or not what they're actually asking.
Speaker 2:I think that's so true. I definitely believe that listen to understand you learn so much more, and indeed that's what these conversations about is. Everyone else is listening right now is listening to understand your journey, where you've been trying to get a grasp of your perspective, to see can it help them understand more about themselves as well. So I think I think it's great. What else is any advice, guidance you think, from your experience, you'd give to athletes to support them through that transition journey?
Speaker 1:The transition is hard and I don't think people talk about how hard is enough.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things that made me really look forward to this conversation and after I started listening to your podcast, after you reached out, is people finally talking about how hard that transition is from a mental standpoint, let alone the change physically and socially. Like Mentally, this was really tough transition and having people be open about that experience is really great. So I would say talk to other athletes, interact and she be open to sharing how that, how hard that was, and I think you'll come to realize there's a lot of people in a similar situation and they're going through a very different but very similar feeling that you are. And I would also say just keep going, you know, keep pushing through that first week. To go full circle back to my first week of practice, like it will get better and you're gonna find a new passion and a new challenge that will continue to excite you. But also say, like continue to learn, be curious, and if you're curious, you'll be in a really good spot.
Speaker 2:Andrew, I wanna say thanks very much for sharing your journey, your perspective, loved this conversation. If people listening wanna get in contact, get in touch with you, follow your journey, where's the best place to go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, feel free to add me on linkedin dandro Barton, I've got the black and white photo of the one that popped up but also feel free to follow me on instagram. Synergy be, which is a long story. Feel free to message me and find out what that was about. But yeah, those are the two main platforms to follow me and follow my journey.
Speaker 2:Wonderful Andrew. Thanks very much once again and I'm sure the listeners gonna love this one. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Awesome Ryan pleasure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to the second wind podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out second wind dot IO for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty book design, nancy from savvy podcast solutions and series from copying content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy until next time.