When the roar of the crowd fades and the medals settle in their cases, what happens to the titans of the sports world? Join us as Paralympian David takes us through the labyrinth of life after elite competition, laying bare the complexities of transition that go far beyond the podium. From the unanticipated stillness of lockdown to the daunting reality of a personal divorce, David's candid revelation of the highs and lows of his botcha career underscores the resilience required to pivot from athletic glory to new ventures.
As we traverse David's journey, we uncover the pivotal moments that shaped his post-athletic life, where the tenacity honed on the boccia court finds new expression in the realm of wellness coaching. This episode intertwines the delicate dance of balancing ambition and practicality, as David shares the insights gleaned from facing down the challenges of disability in his daily life, while simultaneously pushing the boundaries of education and personal growth. The fortitude that propelled him to become a world champion now fuels his passion for empowering others through nutrition and wellness—a testament to the indomitable spirit of a true champion.
Are you looking for Career Clarity for your next step, for more information, or to book a consultancy, make sure you check out https://www.2ndwind.io/
When the roar of the crowd fades and the medals settle in their cases, what happens to the titans of the sports world? Join us as Paralympian David takes us through the labyrinth of life after elite competition, laying bare the complexities of transition that go far beyond the podium. From the unanticipated stillness of lockdown to the daunting reality of a personal divorce, David's candid revelation of the highs and lows of his botcha career underscores the resilience required to pivot from athletic glory to new ventures.
As we traverse David's journey, we uncover the pivotal moments that shaped his post-athletic life, where the tenacity honed on the boccia court finds new expression in the realm of wellness coaching. This episode intertwines the delicate dance of balancing ambition and practicality, as David shares the insights gleaned from facing down the challenges of disability in his daily life, while simultaneously pushing the boundaries of education and personal growth. The fortitude that propelled him to become a world champion now fuels his passion for empowering others through nutrition and wellness—a testament to the indomitable spirit of a true champion.
Are you looking for Career Clarity for your next step, for more information, or to book a consultancy, make sure you check out https://www.2ndwind.io/
I had goals I wanted to achieve and they were close. But I was involved a lot of hard work. So I was sort of put all my eggs in the butcher basket while I was sort of trying to get to that era of dominance. And then the last couple of years probably just were locked down, hit really, and my life felt like I'd sort of hit the Groundhog Day a little bit and I was going through a divorce. I was dealing with obviously not having the sport constantly there.
Speaker 1:It was three months off and just that sort of space to kind of think about where my life was at. I was a little bit frustrated because obviously being really successful but not really having anything sort of to show for it from a monetary point of view, my income hadn't really changed for the last 15 years. From a recognition point of view, no one still had any idea what butcher was. Kind of I was very frustrated. I was very much in the sense of well, I keep winning, but what for what? Like what's the point? So I was in that place where I kind of felt like I needed to change and the sport definitely wasn't going to change because it just doesn't like that. Things like that don't change overnight, so I decided to make my changes myself.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Ryan God Salvers and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people afterwards. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. David, welcome to the show Cool.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me. Absolutely my pleasure and listen, I'm looking forward to our chat, if anything, because you're playing a sport that I've never played, so this for me is understanding that journey and your path is actually quite fascinating for me, so we should have a good laugh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to share as much as I can.
Speaker 3:Yeah, brilliant. As you know, I know we caught up a while back and telling you that podcast show really is all about career transition and thinking of recognizing that our life is more than the athletic opportunity or the sporting opportunity that we've got. So understanding from you as a Paralympian and as someone who's leading your sport is just understanding how you find that balance between excelling at the game but then also building that path alongside yourself that will take you beyond your sporting games as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a challenge. But yeah, absolutely, it's something I've been wrestling with for a couple of years now, so that's great.
Speaker 3:Well, we should delve in. So firstly, I've just got to say so in terms of your game, where you are a supreme athlete, talk to us about it. What's the game that you play? So?
Speaker 1:botcher is a squad. We actually started trying to find ways to describe him botcher better because the old adage is a bulls type game and everybody thinks it's an old man's sport immediately and it's not that. But yeah, so essentially botcher is a quite a fast paced, aggressive bowls game. We play with quite soft leather balls on a hard indoor surface. The rules in terms of how to play are quite lenient for accessibility purposes, so you can throw however you like and it's probably it's quite a high paced, fast and intense sport. So probably we get compared to lots of different things but it's probably quite close in terms in comparison with snooker.
Speaker 1:I find in terms of the intensity of it sometimes and the interaction with the balls and sort of how the game is played and the standard and all that sort of stuff, we're probably along the realms of getting close to that snooker and stuff. So so yeah, that's kind of how I would describe it. It's actually been sort of a part of the sport since 1960s and it was sort of adapted by Stoke Mandoville originally for people with cerebral palsy and then it got expanded to sort of represent more of disabilities over the years. So it became a pilot big sport in 1984. And, yeah, we've been growing quite quickly ever since, and a couple of years ago we were the fastest growing pilot big sport, so probably active in at least 50 countries, and there's more coming on on screen was I'm so?
Speaker 3:yeah, and well, how long have you been playing then?
Speaker 1:So I've been playing botcher for 28 years, 19 years as an international player, so it's I've been quite long in the tooth. I've been playing the game for a very long time. Initially it was to get up doing homework. So my school, it was an activity that we could do, and so I decided that because I already heard and knew the sport from primary school, although I wasn't very good at it an opportunity to get out of doing homework. So basically I said, yes, I'll do that. And then doing playing this game regularly and getting better at it became more enjoyable and started winning things. And when I was 14, I became British champion, 18, I became double world champion and and then the year later I was a Palomac champion. So it kind of it all happened very quickly and then. So getting to the top wasn't particularly difficult, but staying there has been a challenge over the last 15 years or so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, to me that's very impressive. Being at the top of your game, I think in anything for that length of time is is impressive, so I think that's really good. And you're talking, then, about the growth of the game. So more and more people coming into. I guess, take your throne and, you know, try and well. It's a team sport, but really to get in there with you as well, it's impressive. You're able to get that longevity. Now I'm curious again, just as this, you know, starting point, where we are now outside of the game, what else is it that you are doing?
Speaker 1:My life's quite sort of, I guess, interesting, I suppose because of my disability. So I obviously there's a lot of things I have to factor in. It's not just about like rocking up and playing sport around, like social care and managing my body and all that sort of stuff becomes a bit more of a challenge Maybe most people think about. And so for a long time I did a sort of when I was probably halfway through my career. I was studying aerospace engineering, so I was much juggling sort of education and sport for a long time. I graduated in 2014. And then after that I decided I'd become a full time botcher athlete for a little while, just because I had goals I wanted to achieve and they were close but I was involved, a lot of hard work. So I was sort of put all my eggs in the botcher basket while I was sort of trying to get to that era of dominance.
Speaker 1:And then probably the last couple of years probably just were locked down here really and my life sort of was on a. It felt like I'd sort of hit the groundhog day a little bit and I was going through a divorce. I was dealing with obviously not having the sport constantly there. It was three months off and just that sort of space to kind of think about where my life was at. And I was a little bit frustrated because, obviously, being really successful but not really having anything sort of to show for it from a monetary point of view, my income hadn't really changed for the last 15 years. From a recognition point of view, no one still had any idea what botcher was. So I was kind of I was very frustrated. I was very much in the sense of well, I keep winning, but what for what? Like what's the point? So? So I was in that place where I kind of felt like something needed to change. And the sport definitely wasn't going to change because it just doesn't like that. Things like that don't change overnight. So I decided to make my changes myself, and the things I made mainly changed was I decided to I wanted something to go alongside botcher, to complement the sport, to give my brain something else to think about, to give me a different focus, purpose, etc. So, yeah, so I probably three months into lockdown. I I joined a wellness cork.
Speaker 1:So I've been using Herbalife for six years as a sports supplement for myself and I'm using the products particularly just for my own sort of when I'm in competition just to make sure I've got everything I need. Really I wasn't taking it that seriously, but I was kind of. I was using the products and I knew what. I knew what I was doing. But my PT was a Herbalife distributor and as a coach and so he was sort of he could see something in me that I didn't really see in myself. But he said you know, you'd be great at this. You know you like talking to people, you like engaging. You could do this as a business if you wanted to. And I just kind of laughed at him three years and told him to do one Basically, but in lockdown I had no choice.
Speaker 1:Essentially, I was in a position where I was like you know what I do need to change? I do. I'm looking at different careers you know, matt, being like a teacher or something like that, because I just something else. But nothing felt like I could do it around Botcher, like I always knew that I'd be away a lot. So it was like okay with you know, it needs to compliment.
Speaker 1:So I went on this call listen to a Royal Marine talking about his sort of journey through sort of nutrition, herbalife coming out of the Marines, all that sort of stuff, family, kids, and it just got me interested. And he set up himself on a really successful business in Portsmouth and he helps hundreds of people a year but in his organization he's got thousands of people who are all sort of living better and, you know, with great results. So seeing his sort of results and seeing the positivity around it, I was like, okay, well, if this Scottish guy with a relatively small vocabulary can do it, I think I'll be right. So I liked the energy and I was like I can relate to that. So I jumped on and I just started doing it. And then a couple of months later I got free promotions in the business, a couple of clients, a couple of friends, family.
Speaker 1:One client in particular really stood out because she was in a point of desperation. She was due bariatric surgery and I just reached out quite almost like jokingly, kind of not really taken myself that seriously, but just sort of said this is nothing to do with what you're looking for, but I might be able to help you, because she was looking for a sling so she could go to hydrophorepry and basically she was too heavy for the sling. So I was like, well, I can, maybe we can solve the hydrophorepry, maybe we can solve surgery and maybe we can solve all the problems that you need to do any of that. And she was like I'm interested. We started working with her and two years later she lost seven and a half stone and got discharged from hospital and is walking more than she was, she's active, she's healthy, touch wood and, yeah, she's doing really well.
Speaker 1:So that was kind of when I realized, well, okay, this is bigger than business and different purpose and keep my mind going when I'm not playing botcher this is actually impact on people's lives on a one to one basis and I was like, well, okay, this is quite serious. And so, therefore, I got serious and then started by dream of parents, because obviously they're the two people in the world that I want to stay alive for as long as possible. So I was like, right, you don't have to agree with me, but you're doing this. Yeah, because they were both ill health at that point.
Speaker 1:My dad was sort of on the cusp of diabetes at that point as well, and I was like you and he had heart problems for the last 20 years or so, and I'm like you need to look at this. Give it a month to you feel, and yeah so, and he's been using it regularly ever since. The nice thing about that is they always give me a every month. I've got a message from my mom and dad going around I need this, this, this, this, this and this, and I don't even have to prompt anymore, which is great. So it's like it's cool, that's nice, that's kind of my business really, that's kind of what I do. Got a couple of clients and friends and family through sport and not sport, and it's just creating a business and looking to expand and basically build a community in my community, a group of friends around me who are all interested in improving their health and wellness, but also people that I can have fun with, do parties, you know, just create that sort of community.
Speaker 3:That's great. I love the fact that you went from, I guess, boredom and looking for something else to do to accidentally recognizing the impacts that you can have on others, and that now is well, I guess that's your business, that's what you do alongside alongside being an Olympian, alongside sports, and I think that's a great mix that you've managed to create almost well, I'll say, without trying initially, but it's what the right outcome is, so that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like it was all under my nose. It was there kicking myself. I didn't start it six years ago, it just fell into place at the right time. It was just I wasn't ready for it when, when it was shown to me early, and then lockdown happened.
Speaker 1:And it's just funny how your mind, in that situation of desperation, I was like, okay, I'll just, I'll listen to this, because when you're an elite athlete you're not very good at listening. You tend to be in your own lane and you tend to do what you do in your head down and you're not looking up and you're just training and you do what you know is right. And although you know you say it's elite athlete, it's kind of it's not really it's easy, it's like it's doing doing the easy things Well, and obviously training is like everyone's got a safety net and for athletes the safety net is just to go training. Because they've done it for years, they know what it's like, it's not particularly threatening to them. So yeah, that's kind of that's. What I've noticed is that everybody's got their kind of that, their safety net, and that people kind of stay in their lane almost and don't bother venturing out. And I've never been very good at that, but it got better at kind of finding different things to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you have, and I suppose that's an interesting point to perhaps go back and that's to start to think about you as a youngster before really finding sport, because for you, from a sport and an activity perspective, if I'm right in remembering you know you were pretty much told you're not doing sport and you're not driving. That was sort of the message to you as a youngster, I mean, and what sort of impact do you think that had on you as an individual?
Speaker 1:It was difficult, I mean. So I was young when that happened, so I was sort of in the 90s, you know 78, in the sort of early pre-secondary school years really I got that quite a lot. So when I but luckily my parents spotted it quickly and because they knew I had something in me, like they knew I was a bit weird. My intelligence was high for my family, like there was a my dad was like this guy's weird, he likes tomatoes and I hate them. He's got an i-tube bigger than he's got some weird genes, like there's something.
Speaker 1:I think I skipped a generation or something. I sort of I think you saw a bit of my granddad in me and my great granddad and he was like this guy's. In our family they've always like one generation where they sort of a little bit more unique and I think he just saw it in me and he was like and my mum saw it and was like this guy needs pushing, this guy is not going to. You know, there's a waste of talent here. So that my mum pushed really hard to get me into secondary school, into the right secondary school where we looked at different places mainstream versus children.
Speaker 3:What was that? What was it in particular that she was looking for to be the right secondary school for you?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure she knew. I think she, instinctively, she just had this thing that her son wasn't getting what he needed or what he couldn't. So it was always coming up in my reviews at Cedar School that he's not being pushed. Oh, that special school, very small special school in Southampton, and at the those days the class sizes were seven to 10, if you're lucky, and because of the nature of the disabilities there was a lot of LD as well as physical. So the teachers were having to kind of juggle with like vastly different capabilities across a classroom, across a year, across three or four years. So when I was doing maths and stuff in, I was doing maths at the same level as people three, four, five years above me, because that's the only way the teachers could teach me. It was just otherwise. I was I mean, this is one of my best mates. He wasn't particularly academic. We just go on great. I was the only one in the school that could understand him because he had a speech impediment and I spent a long time with him understanding what he was saying and stuff and he hated using speech aids and stuff. He just found it like pulling teeth, partly because I think his disability is so apposite. He had like a. He was quite shaky, so he found it hard for the dexterity that was required to use the speech aids, so he just hated it and he just wouldn't bother trying to use it, which is totally fair enough. And he would be in class and the teachers would maybe ask him a question and he knew that I knew the answer. So he would look at me to say, well, david, so he would say something and then he would expect me to translate the right answer. It was almost like an unregistered agreement. I like his way of teaching. Yeah, absolutely, and we did that for years. And then the teachers cottoned onto it and then they split us up. But then the funny thing was that they couldn't understand what you were saying and he would get so frustrated because he would literally just point to me in the opposite room and go look, the guy that can understand me is in there. So that was just an example of primary school really, and so for myself it didn't really help me. It didn't do me any favours. You know, it was a bit of a farce. So to a point where my maths teacher actually ended up starting trying to self teach me in our office before the SATs came in because they were getting desperate. And that's when we knew my mum was like this is ridiculous, like there's something there that. So she knew that he needed more. I don't think she could ever quite imagine that it would lead to what it led to.
Speaker 1:But when I went to Trollaws then things opened up. My first school reporter at Trollaws was this is a quite shy retiring boy that needs to learn to stop asking questions and just get on with it. Basically was my first school report. And then after that everything changed and things like turning down. So when I was there we had an opportunity to go to see Tomb Raider the filming of it with Laura Angelina Jolie and Lara Croft at the Pinewood Studios, and I turned it down that year because I just wanted to get a feel for the school environment. It was new to me. I wanted to settle in all that rubbish, basically, and all my friends came back and said what an idiot I was for not going. And then I kind of made a vow that I would say yes to everything that was ever offered to me after that, including Botcher, which, and then, and Botcher again. I didn't particularly like the game, but it was a great excuse to get out of homework, so that was kind of why I started playing.
Speaker 3:Botcher. One of the bits that I think was really interesting about you coming up and, like you say that, saying yes to everything and that includes Botcher was very much around your disability, and the type of disability which you said to me was one way was essential, is essentially fixed. So, in terms of your abilities or capabilities, you are able then to look at sports and say, well, actually, I can be really good at this one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there were loads of sports that I could do from going to my school, which said I couldn't do any sports to go into school. They're basically through sport and actually let us get out there later or organize our own sport. So we invented games, so trillors, we had two games that we pretty self invented that the student body kind of adapted to ourselves. So we did. We called wheelchair football, which got banned, so we called it chairball, change the name, keep the game. And then there was basically like a cross between, like, volleyball, football, rugby in chairs. It was insane, great game.
Speaker 1:But we used to do that leagues and we used to compete against the college lot and we used to have like regular like. So again, you know it was intense and the rivalry between the houses and all that stuff as well. It was, you know, it's like a proper boarding school. It was, yeah, sport with everything like and other things as well. Everything was competitive and sport was a great way to get that out. And then, obviously, botcher, we did wheelchair hockey and again we ran that ourselves. So the students ran the sport, organized it in the evenings We'd get some volunteers to help us, like with the equipment and stuff and the PE teacher would leave the storage cupboard unlocked in the certain evenings when we mentioned you, stuff was on and yeah, we'd run that from half seven to nine at night training sessions. So Wednesday was chairball, thursday was football, tuesday we had youth clubs. So we had slot cars. We had a full slot car league again competitive, and you got massive prizes at the end of the year if you stayed near the top.
Speaker 1:I was second four years running did my nuts in? I was like why can't I win this down? But yeah, as I got older I'd get better at it and I would eventually win it. And then I never did. I never won. It Always come second. There was always someone that just had a good season and I was like, oh, this is nuts. A bit like Arsenal always second.
Speaker 3:Very true, I know a lot of us are going to hate that, but yeah, we'll go with that.
Speaker 1:But it was just one of those things. But Botcher again was one of those. Again we had sporting events. The school would take us all around the country regional championships, national championships and I mean, the only reason why Botcher stuck was basically because there was always a competition, there was always something else and you know, once I started winning, it never stopped.
Speaker 1:Like I used to do athletics and stuff, so I used to be very good at like throwing things a long way, so I used to win medals all over the place Blackpool and in Reading, for athletics meets and stuff, but only two competitions a year and it was always the same two competitions. There was another, you win a gold, and that was it. And there was a qualifying standard that I was never anywhere near it, so for like Paralympics, whatever. So I was like, well, what's the point? Whereas with Botcher you win something, you qualify for the next one, and then that was kind of how it went and the England call ups followed soon after I became British champion. Then international competition opened up and there was just so many competitions that was just available to me and and each one was slightly harder than the last one and you win it. But there was always the smaller competitions that you could almost guarantee and win out, and then the bigger competitions. It was harder, but you build that confidence.
Speaker 3:So you go into those competitions feeling pretty good and give it your best shot and see what happens and it's interesting because I guess the bits I often see you know you've that competitive edge, you as an individual, on, I guess, small teams in that regard. But when you think about that competitive nature for yourself, it does seem like that's what drew you to the sport and that was something that was inside you, continues to be inside you and continues to drive you forward. Is that competitive friction, trying to win?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and even at CSchool I was always kind of competitive but I had nowhere to kind of had nothing to compete with, because I was by far. It wasn't even a fair fight, like the only thing that they had over me was maybe some of them were slightly more able, but in terms of everything else it wasn't a fair scrap. And so in the end I became almost like a teacher myself. I was teaching some of the students, particularly like Jack, my mate. Just basically, it was me and him versus the school. We'd find all the loopholes and he would benefit from it and I would be the translator.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, yeah, translating every time in order to help him make sure he gets the right answers. I like that. I like that teamwork, but, again, that's bringing people up with you and I think that's something definitely is consistent in you know, as we talk about, the role that you've got in now in the national team but still going through sport is still one where you look to bring people with you. You have that coach mentality and it's you know you're looking for that outlet, you know. So I'm interested for you. Then, I think back in 2014, or just coming up to 2014, what is it that made you want to go full time? What changed? What made you feel full time was right for you?
Speaker 1:So I'd always had this vision, a dream of being an engineer. I love aerospace, it was something my grandad was good at, so it was something like sort of personally felt quite strongly about in terms of wanting to do that and wanting to, you know, work for a company like Rolls Royce or Airbus or something like that, you know, have that sort of kudos and be in that sort of industry Always a massive attraction to me. Love aircraft always do, always will. But at university things because the university was great but it is when kind of Trollers was almost like a bubble, almost like a very safe but challenging environment where you could do whatever you wanted. Basically in it it was kind of everything was available, it was the best of society in a bubble basically, and they tried to sort of get you ready for the outside world, which wasn't necessarily going to be in that situation.
Speaker 1:Now Unitswans are uni in many ways. Somebody was like a transition. It was almost like the. It was still a bubble almost. It was still in an institution where I could pretty much manipulate it to what I wanted. You know, made sure I was friends with all the janitors, made sure I was good but close to the lecturers, made sure you know all that sort of stuff. It was fairly easy for me to move, adapt it to my needs. The problem came with industry. So I wanted to do a year placement in industry because I felt like that was important and I was one of only two students not to get a place. So I my grades weren't particularly bad. I was roughly average, middle of the road in terms of the student uni and you know we had a massive dropout rate in engineering I think 73% of students dropped out from the first to second year and I wasn't one of them. So even though I was middle of the road, I was still I was achieving.
Speaker 1:I was making sure I was hanging in there, but yeah, I didn't get an industry place which kind of started highlighting to me the realities of the life, was kind of going back to the Cedar School, almost the era of he can't do this, you know and it became that the chair became the issue. I think not my ability as a person, or it was just the. As soon as there was an additional need there, it became a turn off for quite a few of the employment sector. So I quite quickly lost motivation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's going to say how did that make you feel? I mean before that, because you, you know you clearly.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't see the point you're carrying on. I mean, I mean that was the main thing was I didn't see the. There was no. What's the point in having a degree if you're not going to be able to use it? So the motivation to continue with the degree in the end it just became a ticket. I just wanted to get the degree. So it's only I can prove I've done it. There you go, got the degree, but and also, having invested almost six years Well, there was four years at that point when I got rejected but having invested that much time into it, felt like I needed to get something from it, even if it wasn't going to be employment at the end.
Speaker 1:So so it was like like get the degree and run. Basically it was just take the rewards and then disappear. So that was my decision made. Really was that I had to then botch towards the thing that was going to be a priority. It was my soul, it was my biggest income, soul income at that point anyway. So it made sense to maintain that and try and improve on that if I could, and take the opportunities that came with that. And then, and then I said to myself you know, in a couple years time I'll reevaluate once, because I was single at that point as well. So it was kind of a case of I'll wait until I'll focus on the sport until life catches up again and things change, and then I'll. I can always come back to engineering at some point later on in life or whatever, and that was kind of my decision.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and how was it then? How was it for you being a full time athlete? To what extent did you feel this is awesome, living the dream? Was it what you looked for? Was it what you expected?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for a long time it was very good, it was easy, it was not, it was already pretty good. So I mean, the full time is just basically just means I've got nothing else going on. So it was actually relatively. In terms of that, it was relatively plain sailing. It was you know the structure, it was quite easy, it was safe, I suppose. So it probably doubted me. It made my disappointment easier to swallow at that point. So, yeah, it was kind of a. It was me settling for not mediocrity, but just settling for that, because I knew that was where the success was.
Speaker 3:I think that's just amazing. It's amazing to be I'm trying to. So many questions come to me. One is how is what makes being an elite athlete a full time Paralympian? What makes that safe? What makes that sort of mediocrity? Just tell me more.
Speaker 1:So for me it's safe because I've been. I've already been doing it for five, 10 years and, as I've said before, being an elite athlete, it's very easy to stay in your lane and do what you do and go training and come back and routine and all that sort of stuff. It's not. Obviously the competition is hard and to win is hard, but once you know what you've got to do to do to win, it's not particularly hard to kind of, if that's the only thing in your life going on, it's not particularly hard to just keep doing that. In fact it's very easy. That's why a lot of athletes do it. It's actually the hardest thing to do is actually to go. You know what? This is not enough for me to actually go. This isn't fulfilling. This isn't as someone in society. Because what slogan I've had for years? I don't want to be known as someone that just froze balls for a living, like there's more to me than that. There was always more to me than that.
Speaker 1:Butcher wasn't the start of me. I was me way before Butcher came in. Butcher just got lucky and swept me up at a time when I was red, looking for something to sweep me up. And Butcher got lucky that, a I had the competitions that I could do, b that my disability seems to fit perfectly with what's required to be successful in the sport, and B and also I was willing to spend 15 years doing it. So Butcher struck gold. When they found me, in my opinion that was kind of it was a match made at that point.
Speaker 1:So again, it's still relatively easy. Like the hardest thing to do would be successful in something you're not good at or something that takes a little bit of work and time. And so for me I was successful very, very quickly in Butcher. So it's not something that I mean. Obviously I had people coming back at me and I had to learn to manage B shot at and I had to learn to, you know, be more professional and put the time in and making sure that I was giving my body everything it needed to be. And you know that took time and it took hard work. But it wasn't hard work that I didn't know what to do, it wasn't stuff that was totally left field and it was all still related to putting a ball close to the white, which I've been doing for 15, 20 years.
Speaker 3:So again, it came. To an extent it came naturally. It is something you feel you know in many respects, like you said you were made for. You were made for this game and so, because you knew, you know what it takes to be successful. But what is fascinating is that, that piece for you, the mental toughness to do it again, and the mental toughness to say, well, this is the formula that works in this game and I'm just going to keep doing it. And you know, for you to be able to do that, the training, the competition, the traveling, that takes a mental strength. But what I also recognize is this I guess, academic ability or mental ability to recognize I love that quote that the hardest thing to accept is that this isn't enough. So how do you then fill that? How do you go figure out what comes next? I think that's great.
Speaker 1:It's a constant. It's a constant conversation and it adapts and it evolves as life changes. You know when you, when you've got other people relying on you and not just yourself. You know family getting older, parents are getting older, partner, those sort of things when life starts getting a bit more real. You know when you're in your 20s. It's easy because, like, all you've got to do is just do it, look after yourself, be selfish for a bit, and once you start getting older, things become life becomes a bit more like Okay, there's other people that may rely on me and at that point, traveling around the world, just saying you know it's only going to sustain me for so much it's. I feel like I need to be more useful. There needs to be something else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so the sense for you in doing that. I know we talk about. You know it was during the COVID period where suddenly you had to listen to people saying doing something else Did you? You know, how was that process for you? How did you go through? To what extent did you go through the process of figuring out? Well, if botch is not enough, what is it then that I should be doing as well?
Speaker 1:Well, actually two years, I mean. I was already looking for stuff to do way before the pandemic hit. But the problem was I wasn't open minded. So I'm looking for stuff, but I'm looking for stuff with my own ideology and preconceptions and and sort of what it has to look like, what employment looks like and all that sort of stuff. So, because something like Herbalife is network marketing, it's more around sort of working with people one to one. It's not necessarily about classic nine to five kind of job, as it were. And I had no. Obviously I've got a very limited knowledge of business, so I'm that the business is probably as far removed from my comfort zone as you could possibly get. That. And social media, again, it was kind of. It took me a while to get my head around it, so what?
Speaker 3:were you able to do before Herbalife came about? Then what was it you were looking for? What did you think you should be doing?
Speaker 1:I felt like I almost a proper job I guess it's kind of the classic get a proper job. So I was looking at becoming a maths teacher. But then I was looking because obviously I enjoyed maths but it was sort of like, well, I can teach, you know, if I can do it, I could probably teach it. So that was going down that route. For you know, it wasn't engineering but it was close to that kind of thing. But then again it kind of and also with school holidays and stuff, I thought it might be getting time off because my sports assistant, she works in education, she's a deputy head at a college. So I was like, well, if she can get time off to support me, then perhaps I can get time off to support myself, to go to these homes and stuff.
Speaker 1:But then I was like, actually, as a teacher you've got to be, I'd be away more than I was there. And it's one of those things where actually I'd be like it's a bit like I don't want to be, like I'm not happy with being average at something I'm not happy with. Just I want to. If I'm going to do something, I want to do it well, be recognized for it and and also be able to give. So if I was a teacher, I'd want to be a really good teacher, build relationships with the students, all that sort of stuff. But that I'm not going to do that if I'm not there or if I'm there only half the time or whatever, then it becomes a bit tokenistic. I also just want to be the token disabled guy that's got a teaching job. Again, that involves so yeah, I so, with all my I guess, with my experience with employment, I got very cynical and I decided that actually I wanted to be my own boss, because I wanted, I don't want to be told what I couldn't and do, I wanted to be accountable to myself. So yeah and that's.
Speaker 1:But I had no idea how to do it and it, like I said, it wasn't. I was sort of giving up and looking at different things and you know even stuff like saying I was going to retire after Tokyo to try and force myself into proper employment. But then, yeah, and then, and then things changed like I said, and then lockdown happened. Could, I was done you know my mentally, physically done with botcher after once lockdown hit, I was so peed off with it, I was just, I was ready to jack it all in. I was like this is not for me, the sport doesn't give me. I give way more than the sport gives me. So I was like, well, this is pointless on a net. Net loss hit, but then again, like I said, lockdown happened and yeah.
Speaker 3:So the change for you was what? What is it that actually made you think, okay, I'm not done, there is a change, I'm going to keep competing as well. I think there's two facets to it.
Speaker 1:I think one was the when I came back training. Once I'd made changes to my own nutrition and started looking after myself better, when I came back training I just felt so much better and as a consequence, the sport felt really easy. For a couple of weeks I was flying like in training. I'd been away for three months and I came back and I was better than I was when I'd left, like instantly bear. And that was like okay. So that had two things One that means that I don't have to train as hard as I was, which is more sustainable as I get older. And B that means that whatever I'm doing nutritionally is good. So that was a massive sort of first tick box like that was like okay, I'm on the right track here. Then I realized that I could obviously do nutrition stuff complimented the sport, so that's one to be good.
Speaker 1:I was my own boss and I could work from home and it was quite possible for me to continue my sporting career and do this small part time business on the side and make a decent income from both.
Speaker 1:That became quite powerful. And then the third thing was that I could build a community as well, because I'm a social animal. I need people and you're not being stuck behind a desk didn't appeal to me. But having something where I could invite people around to shake parties, meet up regular meetings that weren't anything to a botcher or all that sort of stuff the community, the wider you know around the world was like, well, okay, that's, and the parties are awesome, so that was kind of exciting as well. So they added an extra layer to my life that wasn't there before that the ability to meet people and the ability to sort of socialize. So yeah, that didn't have an opinion on my botcher career or my disability or whatever like just for me, they we all had one thing in common and that was that was it. And then you just get to know people. That was the third thing that kind of ticked my box.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that because you know you didn't mention one of the bits around. You know, in your current role you're not patronized, you don't feel like the token disabled person in the room, because you know the advice, the coaching, the guidance that you're giving isn't based on that.
Speaker 1:And it's exactly the same. Everybody gets the same information. It's just what you do with it. So you know, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, simple as so. Tell me then. You know for you, and you know thinking about others who are listening to this show, and you know they're trying to figure out. How do you get that balance, how do you continue being an athlete, fully able bodied athlete, a Paralympic athlete or well, I guess, just anyone listening? To be honest, what do you think you know helped you to be able to find this, this balance? And you know that other people could learn for I think it's a bit of luck.
Speaker 1:It's not any right or wrong way, I don't think. I think I stumbled across it rather than it didn't get. These things found me rather than the other way around, rather than me like looking in the right place, necessarily. I think the most important thing is having a clear idea of what it is that you not necessarily want to do, but what it is that you're currently not doing, and sort of using that as a motivation to try other things, I think like. So. I think for me, the biggest thing was actually things change when I would open minded enough to try stuff and an open mind enough to actually critique myself. Not necessarily stop blaming the sport, stop blaming the situation I was in, but actually take responsibility for it and go. It's not good enough, I'm not happy with it. I'm going to make a change because I'm starting listening to different motivational speakers.
Speaker 1:One guy that I particularly like is Jim Rowan, who used to be a herbivore distributor himself, but he's actually more than a well known as a business mentor, motivational speaker from the sort of late 80s, 90s, going into the 2000s. One of his most powerful quotes is he says for things to change, you must change. For things to get better, you must be better. You can't change the seasons. All you can do is change how you respond to them.
Speaker 3:I like that and it had a big impact on you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it was empowering for me because I felt like it was everybody else's fault and therefore I couldn't do anything about it. I was in the situation I was in because everybody else was an idiot and I was like I can't. That was frustrating. I felt like I'm doing all this and yet I'm in this situation. Then you take a step back and go. Actually, we stopped doing all that. Then I like doing something else.
Speaker 3:I mean it's fascinating. So I have to ask then so where you are today, still in the sport, building out your practice, your business, right, what comes next?
Speaker 1:A big challenge for me has actually been. So whilst it is possible to build a business around botcher, I feel like I am still pulled in multiple directions. So the biggest challenge for me and it's always been a challenge is time management. I am really bad at it, as my partners and friends will testify. So time management organization is not a strong point of mine and if for a long time it's been probably the biggest challenge.
Speaker 1:So the business talk ticks over and I, you know but it's my check my weekly monthly pay is essentially based on why I'm not. I'm not doing so. It's not as good as it could be and it's also and I know I've got myself to blame. You know that's fine, I know it's my fault and exactly what I'm not doing. So for me it's a. I need to be more organized. I need to be better with my time management. I do a lot of voluntary work around schools and stuff. I do a lot of to try and you know how botcher become more well known and all this stuff. And the problem is when you do voluntary work is you do value yourself a little bit. So my time becomes a an easy commodity for people to just use and abuse. So next year I'm going to be a lot stronger in saying no and or yes, but that's kind of and being more organized and actually turn my business into a business, because at the moment it's just a bit of not fun, but I kind of it's something I enjoy doing. So I don't necessarily treat it like work but as a consequence I don't get paid as I should. So I need to, whilst I still enjoy it.
Speaker 1:I need to become a lot more strategic and a lot better at how I go about doing the basics and the fundamentals, which is basically just talking to people, and how I get better at inviting and stuff, because I'm when I'm away it's difficult. So again, it's just managing the time when I'm not away better, so that it's also so it doesn't take up the whole of my life, because it's. It's one of those things where I'm so passionate about stuff. It can be if I'm not strategic with my time, the day just disappears and the time just goes. So again it's. It's a combination of time management being more strategic with it to increase my income but also give me more time freedom.
Speaker 1:But same with the sport as well. I've got to be a lot better with how I manage the sport and how I manage the sort of the traveling and all this stuff and all the things that I try and do to promote the sport, sort of I have. I'm going to be a bit more sort of like well, you know, I sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that's trying to promote the sport, so so it's kind of like if it's only me, I've still got a limited voice. You know, I'm not going to be able to sing over the hills of the you know like sound of music. So again, it's probably I need to be here. I'm singing voice is not very good, but I need to be realistic and actually just go. You know what? I need to wait until more people come along with me. A little bit on that one.
Speaker 2:And if it doesn't happen?
Speaker 1:then I've got other outlets that I can focus on for now, and when botch is ready to catch up, it can.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was going to say how do you bring people along with you? Because it sounds like your voice is is really important and he's doing some great work in sport and outside of sport and clearly your voice has been missed as you step back and do other things. When thinking about you as that, that coaching style and bringing others with you, do you see that next wave coming through who are prepared to come out and stand by you and and support the cause, but support the game, support the athletes?
Speaker 1:No is the honest answer. The sport's going for a little bit of a Well, particularly in the UK. The sport's going for a little bit of a dodgy patch at the moment. Just, we've got a lot of turnover of athletes and we've had a lot of turnover of staff. And politics is starting to be the biggest issue because the home nations are managed by different governing bodies and Botch UK has a limited amount of should we say, because separate funding bodies and all that sort of stuff. Botch UK should be the pinnacle and all the home nations sort of aspire to the top and sort of developing the sport.
Speaker 1:All that sort of stuff comes through Botch UK in my opinion. But unfortunately it doesn't happen like that and you end up with a very disjointed working. So, like in England, they've got hundreds of athletes, great resources, but they don't know what the hell to do with it and it's disorganized, it's messy, it's not particularly fun, it's very definitely not competitive and it's just losing people all the time and it's not attracting new people in. So it's very clicky. So that's not good.
Speaker 1:In Wales Botch is non-existent because it's not a Commonwealth Games sport. So no one in Wales disability sport don't give a monkeys, basically, and they never have. So that's in Scotland, botcher is managed very, very well and they've always had a really good Botcher Academy and squad and regular meets in a really good, strong community. The problem is they've got a limited population and therefore they don't get a lot of athletes and new people coming through. So they've got the best structure but they haven't got a lot of athletes, which is really annoying, because you just think if that structure was in England it would be amazing, or in Wales you'd think whoa. So yeah, so Scotland has the structure with no athletes, england have the athletes but no structure, and Wales have neither. And then in Northern Ireland it's quite a young organization, so they've still got a lot of learning to do.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, David, fascinating listening, just talking with you, listening to you, but then also learning as we go through. I want to say thanks for joining me on the show and sharing your life, sharing your perspective to date. I think it's been great. I have to ask probably two more questions. One again just going back to athletes, perhaps particularly Paralympians approaching the pinnacle or looking towards what they should be doing next. What advice or guidance would you give to them?
Speaker 1:I think as a Paralympian it's probably a lot harder, just because it just isn't the sponsorship or the sort of recognition that the Olympians or able-bodied athletes get. It just isn't. The money's just not there Basically, it's just not even in the same ballpark. So I think as a Paralympian it's really hard. But I would say, don't get caught in the trap of relying on the sport to solve all your problems, because I think it won't. Sport can do a lot of things, but it's not going to solve all your problems. It's probably something to always worth thinking about.
Speaker 1:What else are you? Because sport is only one part of my life. It's always only ever been one part of many assets, of what I can and can't do. I'm sure that's the same for everybody. I'm sure no one is really defined by their sport. It's a part of them and you can be good at sport. But I think actually the best athletes tend to be the ones that are more rounded anyway, the athletes that seem to have more about them, that don't have that reliance on the sport or are totally obsessed with it but have a little bit of something else going on. You just feel like they've got a bit more roundedness, like Ronny O'Sullivan with his running, roger Federer, with his businesses and his family, and how well presented he is, how well rounded he is as a person. All the great sports people tend to have something else going on. So I think once you become reliant on sport, you're in a dangerous game because you're not going to be able to do it forever, or someone else is going to get better at you at some point.
Speaker 3:Very true, that's it. It is a sport or sport is, I guess, a career that has a timer on it, and when someone eclipses you or takes you off your perch, and often it's then time for you to move on and listen to that. Like I said, it's been great just listening to you and getting the tips there that you're sharing with others. I think it's fantastic if last one, really, but how do people follow you? Where's a great place to learn more about you and your story? Please share that with the audience. Where should they go to learn more about you?
Speaker 1:You can follow me on Instagram at smithy2389. So I'm blue ticked so people can follow me on there. Obviously, you can email me as well. So again, it's the same. I kept it simple. So it's smithy2389 at gmailcom. Again, drop me a message and be in touch. I'm happy to chat, always around lifestyle stuff. It's kind of part of what I do. So, yeah, I'm happy to talk and discuss and, again, obviously I do performance nutrition as well as recreational nutrition, so I do a little bit of both. So, again, on that side of things, there's opportunities that could be potentially there for people as well who are in sport, because obviously, as sports people, we do have a lot of influence in the world. We can actually influence a lot of things. So it's just knowing how you can maximize that influence.
Speaker 3:So, david, thanks very much for sharing your perspective, your wisdom, with me today as well, and all the listeners. Thanks very much. No worries, my pleasure, take it easy until next time.