2ndwind Academy Podcast
2ndwind Academy Podcast
113: Jori Davis: From Pro Basketball to Bringing Transparency to Athlete Management, Agents and Contracting
In today's episode, Ryan dives deep with Jori Davis, a seasoned professional basketball player turned entrepreneur, whose journey spans over 13 years, nine countries, and four continents. From the early days in New Orleans, Davis realized the importance of independence and self-reliance, especially in the competitive world of sports that crafted her into a strong advocate for athletes rights.
After experiencing the challenges and frustrations of negotiating sports contracts through agents and partners who often underpaid athletes, she realized the need for a platform that could bridge the gap between athletes and the support they deserve. This inspiration led her to create WeVolv, a digital community where athletes can connect, share experiences, and access opportunities directly, without the need for intermediaries who might not always have their best interests at heart. Through WeVolv, Jori has become a pivotal figure in the sports industry, advocating for fair treatment, better support, and enhanced opportunities for athletes worldwide.
Tune in to learn more about:
- What causes the lack of transparency of information and fair compensation in the sporting industry
- Her sporting journey from the grassroots to professional basketball
- European vs American sporting system
- Joris’s journey to self-discovery and adaptation as she played in different places around the globe
- Influence of the female mentors in crafting her sporting and entrepreneurial career
- Pushing schools to build out ecosystems that help athletes better their perspective
- How new vision for athletes empowerment and how it is impacting athletes
…and so much more!
Are you looking for Career Clarity for your next step, for more information, or to book a consultancy, make sure you check out
Links:
Website: https://wevolv.net/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joridavis32
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jori-davis-0a16a75a?utm_source
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wevolv/
And so, when you look back at that female influence female and woman of color, that influence how do you think it? Did it meet your expectations? Was it what you expected? Did it provide that security that you were looking for?
Speaker 2:It definitely provided my family security. They were happy with that. They really trusted Coach Jack, and rightfully so. She, for sure, from my standpoint, exceeded expectations. I think one of the elements that I learned throughout the process was that she had her own struggles and things she had to battle that we didn't know about and that did come across sometimes in her actions toward us and how we needed to carry ourselves. And again, it's not a bad thing. It's like when a father or a mother is super strict on their kid and they're like what the heck? And then when they grow up they kind of learn they're like ha, it sucked. But hey, thank you, Because I see how I've reaped the benefits of what you put on us.
Speaker 1:Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people after all. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Jory, welcome to the show, great to have you on here today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, Ryan. I'm excited to get started and be on the show with you.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. It has taken us a while to get this going, but I'm glad we're here now and there's well, actually there's quite a lot to download. You've had, for me, a fascinating pro career. It's helped you travel and I love the way that you know. One of the things I talk a lot about is sport as a passport to travel and explore different cultures, and that's definitely something you've done. And now I love where you're taking your business, helping athletes, giving back again. So there's a lot to unpack and well, let's just kick straight in. And for those who don't know who you are yet, for whatever reason, don't find you on all the social platforms, please let us know who you are, your name, what you're up to and all about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm Jory Davis, a New Orleans native, global professional athlete of 13 years, over nine countries, four continents. I am a active professional but also a founder and CEO of Weevolve. So I am an expathlete entrepreneur and also a big sister, a granddaughter and the cousin with no kids, with a whole lot of God children. So that's me and excited to be on this call with you, ryan.
Speaker 1:That's great. I love the cousin with no kids. That makes you probably that perfect godmother who comes in, plays sport, brings toys and just plays around. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's exactly, and they love me and they think I am their age and so I'm like, all right, I still have this youthfulness about me, because the kids just say, cousin Jory, you know, godmom Jory is here. It's like, you know, I'm I'm pretty old, right, but that's all right, we'll go jump on the trampoline, no problem.
Speaker 1:Well, that's it. That's probably what's going to keep you in your career for even longer, so keep you playing. Yeah, that's it got to keep up with a little? Yes, definitely, that's great. So you just mentioned the co-founder of wevolve. Can you just tell me a bit what? What is that?
Speaker 2:yeah, so Wevolve is a sports tech and SaaS company. We are helping millions of contracted athletes utilize data to make more informed decisions. We are partnering actively with the unions and we're aggregating unique data and basically unlocking this information with the help of artificial and human intelligence, and we're basically taking that to provide a personal advisor for the athlete to make better informed decisions around their careers, but also their contracts.
Speaker 1:Wow, that sounds quite impactful. What was the idea behind that? Not the idea, but what was your inspiration to create that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean around year seven, I in Italy, I was playing in the top league, serie A, for women, and I was the leading scorer of that league. I finished the league as the leading scorer as well. But that's where I started to get a little frustrated and started to ask questions, wanted more information around salaries, wanted more information around agents, figuring how I can better serve myself and be empowered to take control of my career. And there was nothing. And so I realized, also through going to my peers, I had one of the worst contracts in the league and, you know, based on my value, I felt definitely should have been paid more.
Speaker 2:I was underpaid, my amenities didn't match what should have been provided, and I went on this journey to try and find the information. And it was too much, it was fragmented and it was overwhelming and also wasn't sure where I could get valuable information without a non-biased thought process. And so that's where I realized, started to build community and realized I wasn't alone. But I knew it was a daunting task for any individual athlete to do it, and some were trying, they did different things and it was like this problem can't be solved with a seminar. You know, it's time for us to evolve. It's time for us to innovate on behalf of the athlete, and have been on that journey ever since behalf of the athlete and have been on that journey ever since.
Speaker 1:Wow, Definitely something to unpack even more in there. A quick question for me what is it Cause? It sounds like there's a, perhaps there's a, two things at least a lack of transparency and that imbalance in information. What is it that causes that lack of transparency?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think in industry you know this is a marketplace there are a lot of different stakeholders who, where the system works for them and I believe that was never demanded from the athlete side we have always been the stakeholder, that is kind of the talent, but not having the active seat, equitable stake in this industry. So the leagues and teams, even sometimes agents, are communicating and building and innovating on their behalf of their place in the industry and it is not, truthfully, is not their problem to solve, it's ours and so I think it required. The reason there is a lack of information and asymmetry of information is due to the athlete not really demanding it and kind of assuming this is the way it is, and so I believe a lot of gatekeepers hold information and it works in their favor.
Speaker 1:Right, and just me. You're getting me thinking now. I suppose a lot of it is as athletes getting me thinking. Now, I suppose a lot of it is as athletes, we're doing something we love. We almost feel it a short-term privilege to be able to play, and we play for free. We would compete for free because we just love doing it. But then, as we become more professional or certainly move into the more elite aspects or tiers of the game, there is financial reward or people are generating revenue, making money from sport, and perhaps as athletes we forget that because we're like yeah, I'm in the moment I'm playing, but we forget there's all of this circus that's around us where people are profiting from that.
Speaker 2:Correct, and that's always been the thing that everyone holds over your head consistently like, well, oh, you get to live this life, you should be blasting, you're lucky to do this, while on the other end, the person telling you that is profiting and making good money, because if that wasn't the case, you wouldn't be in this business.
Speaker 2:And so I think it's just a shift in thinking and mentality in the athlete to really understand that it's time for us to evolve truthfully, and it's not to say that we aren't doing it and we wouldn't still play for free when we're done being professionals, because we will as long as the knees hold up, of course. But yeah, I think that's one of the reasons. Like I said, I think there is a level of accountability on the athlete. It's not all just the stakeholders' fault, it's also some accountability on our end to say we have allowed and we have not spoken up and we have not used our voices to say we want more and that's fine. It's just. I think there's a shift in the universe, in society, where athletes are now realizing the opportunity and now the sport industry is $600 billion industry and it's like, hey, the stories of us going broke, the stories of us not knowing what to do after sport and all of these things that should not be as prevalent as it has been.
Speaker 1:That's good. So through that, I suppose now's probably a good time to go back and understand a bit about your story. What got you to Italy and you know since Italy, but the story that got you there. So tell me for you then, sport growing up, what was that like for you?
Speaker 2:Well, there's, there's a few athletes and I need to get this down, but I believe Federer was one. There are a number of athletes, it's something about the age of three, and at three, that's the age that everyone in the family tells me. Of course, I can't remember when I was three, but those older in my family tell me. At three, I said I want to play basketball, that's what I want to do when I get older. And I stayed. I stayed, handled business or what's the word they say.
Speaker 2:I stood on business at three years old when I said that, and I continued to stand on business until now, and I truly believe of course, everyone has their own, whatever they serve the universe, et cetera, but I believe it was what I came here to do, was that was a part of my journey, to play this game. And at three, I said I wanted to do it and I've been consistent with being the best I could be since then. And so, at three, professed my love for the game, and around nine eight is when I started to play organized basketball. I was terrible and had a lot to learn.
Speaker 2:However, I loved it and I enjoyed it and it was something that I knew I wanted to do and that's where my journey started in New Orleans, louisiana, playing grassroots basketball JPRD BIDI one of the best grassroots infrastructures, I think, in the world, because not many places have that where you can go and sign up at a park for free and be coached and get to play. Many things now cost, so I was blessed to be able to start my journey there. I started AAU with a team called Lady Pride. That really laid the foundation for me understanding how to play the game the right way, really laid the foundation for me of how to be a young lady and play the game and respect my peers, of other women. And, yeah, that's where it all started for me.
Speaker 1:When did you realize you were good? So you start off young, you start off rubbish, as you said, eight, nine years old, which I guess we all do. We're starting out. When did people start clocking, start saying, oh, there's some talent there. Maybe we should explore a bit further.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually I went, we, me and my mom left New Orleans and we moved to Texas for my seventh grade year, middle school, and that's where really my level went 10x. I was really dominant. My athleticism was coming into its own. I had put in a lot of time in those early years really practicing, and that's where the pieces started to come together for me. I was still fairly raw, had a lot to learn, but that's when I was like, okay, I'm pretty good and started to get a few letters and stuff at an early age for potential colleges wanting to recruit me. And that's when I realized, okay, I'm making progress and I can actually get to the next level playing this game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did that impact actually family life in some respects. Did it change your approach to school? Did it change your approach to how you played or where you played? So what impact did it have for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for my family it changed a lot. As you know, and many are aware of now, once you get into really playing at the elite level at a young age, you have to. You know you're not on family trips anymore. You know Jory's going to a tournament where everyone's going to Disneyland for the summer. I'm in the gym when everyone else is going to the family reunion. So it impacted my life in that regard, where I wasn't spending as much time with my immediate family and the community of athletes and the people around the team became my secondary family For a school again.
Speaker 2:You start time management very early. When you're playing elite level sport at a young age, you have to figure out how to maintain good grades, study and find time to get in the gym, and I believe that's kind of one of the things that shifted is like, hey, now I need to change the way I think about school and balancing basketball. But my mother always made sure that came first. A couple of times she kind of told me hey, if you don't pick this up, you're not going to play, and she knew that was the easiest way to get me in check because I wasn't about to let anything stop me from playing, and so that was the adjustment for me really time management at a young age and being okay with having to miss out on family things because I was playing the sport, you know as you look back at that time, to what extent did you feel you were missing out on those other things?
Speaker 1:To what extent did you feel it was a sacrifice?
Speaker 2:Truthfully for me at that time I didn't feel it was a big sacrifice. I think that didn't come till later in my journey as an athlete that I started to really feel it once I got older. Like college time I felt it. But I feel I had a good work-life balance. As a kid, as I'll say, I really was able to still be with my family, even though I missed the big trips.
Speaker 2:But I grew up in New Orleans with a community where my great-grandmother lived down the street, my great-aunt, my uncles we grew up on the street where a lot of my family I grew up in a village basically they say it takes a village. I grew up with everyone around me so I had the luxury to still be immersed in my family despite missing some of the bigger events, and so I think that was one blessing I had where I didn't feel I was missing out or feeling isolated because I had that. And then my teams at an early age basically came from my community and so it kind of all came together into this little ecosystem. That really helped me flourish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting. Again, it's one of the bits I often find when, certainly when we're younger, we don't, it doesn't feel like we're sacrificed, it doesn't feel like we're missing out as such, because we continue to do something that, well, we love. You wanted to play ball, you were playing. Yeah, it's like, well, that's what I want to do, I'm getting to do it. It's only as things change, as we develop as adults or become adults, or certainly young adults, we start to recognize the different things that actually take place around us to make things happen. So, as you progress through, I suppose, high school and you're then ready to step to that next level, what was that experience like for you? Just talk me through that path to get into college.
Speaker 2:So for me, after when I left New Orleans, I went to the UK for freshman year of high school, so I was in Welling Garden City in the UK and that was a big adjustment for me. If anyone knows anything about New Orleans or Louisiana, my accent was very strong and then you go into the Brits territory and they had no idea what I was saying and that was my first big.
Speaker 1:I think this is brilliant, I know, because when I saw that and I was thinking what was that like? What was it like for you that first week Weather, language, culture, all of that.
Speaker 2:It was a big culture shock for me. And again, new Orleans is diverse. It's great food, jazz, music, everything. And I went to the UK and obviously New Orleans is a warm climate, sunny. Went to the UK I was like, where did you take me, mom? It was a bit of a culture shock. I went to an all-girls school Bishop Hatfield Girls' School and we had to wear these little skirts every day and I was like, oh my goodness, there was no basketball at the school, we played netball and it was a big culture shock at the time. It was very difficult, but it was very imperative to my life.
Speaker 2:When I look back now I am so grateful that my that transition just helped me to grow so much. I mean education wise as well. As we know, the UK has a great education system. I think I was, you know, once I left the UK that year 10 for them but my freshman year I got back to high school. I'm like I've done all of this already. So it was.
Speaker 2:It was a great experience for me, and so going from high school to college, I truly feel like that step in my journey going to the UK really prepared me to be ready to leave my family fully and go to college. And so once I got to Rochester I was off the map in America because I was over in UK and at that time no one was recruiting overseas back in those days. So they were just like where did Jory go? So when I got back to the States my sophomore year I did very well and kind of got under the radar.
Speaker 2:A couple of local colleges started to see me and throughout my high school career that's when I kind of got back on the radar and then from there the letters and everything picked back up and made the decision to go to Indiana University and that was pretty much it that transition from high school to college for me. Like I said, I think I was prepared that year in the UK. I really do feel wholeheartedly that experience helped me grow tremendously. That made up for the other three years of high school. Truthfully and I was I was really prepared mentally to go to college, not to say that I still had a lot to learn, but that was the pivotal point in my life that I think got me ready for college.
Speaker 1:You know what's amazing, the insightful piece about that is, and you said, got you mentally ready for college. So taking a year or so out of top level basketball, playing netball, different foot hand skills, you know very different. But what you came back, it got you mentally ready and I think, as we'll sort of walk through, understand about how, from there, it enabled you to travel, it opened up your mind to even, as you say, being away from family, but got you mentally ready to well, I guess, to move into that next stage of your life yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:and again, I did play in the UK. I played for Spelton Acer's where they had the under 18 team and a women's team. They were technically professional but I didn't get paid because during that time it was clear I was going to go play college. So we knew I couldn't get paid. It would break the NCAA rules and regulations.
Speaker 2:But I was also around women, grown women, playing pro in the UK and that in itself as well was just something that's different and it's something that I do think allows Europeans to be more mature, because you have young talent already playing against women and pros in the ecosystem of Europe. It's not the same in America, and so I also think that all of those elements just were really powerful and took me out of my comfort zone and was my first experience with really having to adapt and learn how to be okay with that and take a big step. That's not common for many, and I really look at the Europeans that do leave at 14 and stuff to go play pro alone. I really admire them because I did it with my parents. They do it by going to an academy without their parents and just kind of having to go and be under a team environment that takes care of them. So I really do admire those players even more because I did it with my parents and I knew it was hard.
Speaker 2:I can't imagine for those that don't go to these places. I did it with my parents and I knew it was hard. I can't imagine for those that don't go to these places and do it without their parents. But yeah, for me it opened my mind. It allowed me to really, you know, learn a lot about myself and realize it was a bigger world out there than New Orleans, louisiana. And, like I said, that step really helped me to prepare for college.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. I'm you know, I talk a lot For me as a footballer. I left school 16 years old and so from that point we were playing against men. We would go and, yeah, I may train with similar age for a lot of the time, but we'd play in reserves. We'd be playing guys who could be twice, literally twice my age, and you know it's what you describe. It kind of sharpens the focus, it gets you ready to play competitively. You, you start to recognize movements much faster and you're not playing against another 16, 17 year old, you're playing against someone who's played for 20 years and it's like no, I know what I'm doing. You better learn quickly or you're gonna get left behind exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's the, the advantage the european system has over the system in america, and it's, it's, it's beautiful. I mean again, it's, it's a great asset, I think, with how the system is created abroad, just because the development of everybody as an individual, as a human being, and with the elements of sport, as we know, that helps you to grow, for sure. You know much more mature. I think the Europeans are a little bit more mature than the talent in America, and I firsthand completely understand why.
Speaker 1:So what was your college experience like?
Speaker 2:I mean great, great experience. Indiana University is a college town, so it's a small town in Bloomington, indiana, and it's a college town. So everything you have everything around you. The Hoiers are. Indiana is the state of basketball in general, but then the Hoosiers are very famous the Candy Stripe Pants. So the ecosystem was definitely a fun environment.
Speaker 2:College, again, for me, was pretty standard. Like many others that talk about college, it was hard in the beginning. Many others that talk about college. It was hard in the beginning. I gained my freshman like 20 pounds from having to learn how to diet and not eat all the junk food that I was eating. But I was in the best shape of my life. I was pushed extremely with one of the great trainers, tom Morris. Shout out to Tom Morris was a wonderful trainer, really pushed me beyond my limits. I was coached by a phenomenal woman, felicia Leggett-Jack. She was a black woman.
Speaker 2:That was something I wanted to. That was one of my key things. I wanted to play for a woman, and preferably a woman of color, preferably a woman of color, and she really, I believe, going into. If I was going to go to one of these bigger institutions, which was it was going to be the case. Whether it be Indiana or UMass, it would be a predominantly Caucasian institution, and I felt what better way to have the leader who's going to be my leader on that campus be someone that can identify with me and I would feel secure in that.
Speaker 2:I also wanted to have inspiration of how can she come to one of these institutions and lead a team at this level and find success and really learn from her and watch how she moves and works these environments, and I thought that was very important for me and to be in that environment, and so that was one of the key things that I looked for in my decision matrix was I wanted to play for a woman of color and a woman. You know, just you know again, I was coached by men throughout my you know amateur status, but also I had a few women in my New Orleans days and how that impacted me, so it was key for me. So that was one of the reasons why I decided to go to Indiana as well.
Speaker 1:And so, when you look back at that female influence female and woman of color, that influence how do you think it? Did it meet your expectations? Was it what you expected? Did it provide that security that you were looking for?
Speaker 2:It definitely provided my family security. They were happy with that. They really trusted Coach Jack, and rightfully so. She, for sure, from my standpoint, exceeded expectations. I think one of the elements that I learned throughout the process was that she had her own struggles and things she had to battle that we didn't know about and that did come across sometimes in her actions toward us and how we needed to carry ourselves. And again, it's not a bad thing. It's like when a father or a mother is super strict on their kid and they're like what the heck? And then when they grow up they kind of learn they're like ha, it sucked. But hey, thank you because I see how I've reaped the benefits of what you put on us. So for me at the time there were things that were kind of like ah, but again, time reveals all and everything. She preached, everything she did, uh, had it mattered and it, and it was for a reason, and so, um, I think she exceeded expectations. Um, I have a lot of respect for her and I know there were, were times where, you know, me and my teammates possibly were like we don't like that behavior. But it's also understanding that she was human. She was a woman in this institution trying her best, and so, for me, definitely respect her and I believe what I expected when I went there she delivered, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when you arrived at college, what was your dream outcome in terms of where your? So that was one of the reasons I also chose academically and matched. They had a very I think 9% of the students were African-American and one of the highest out of the other options I had, so that was great. And then, of course, wanted to win a national championship, like every player that goes to college, like want to go to NCAA tournament, of course, getting on campus, being at one of the number one business schools in the country, plus trying to be a D1 athlete and technically coming in to be that top recruit of my class. Unfortunately, it was very difficult. So I did shift what I majored in to sports marketing management and so, again, that was one thing I look back on and I'm like dang, I should have just kept going.
Speaker 2:I was immersed in a lot of the Greek culture, so there was a lot of the black fraternities were on campus, so I loved that and, again, that was one of the reasons I made that decision. So it was great to be immersed in that culture, we fell short of getting to the NCAA tournament. So one thing that you know didn't take into account was that, hey, we need a level of talent to be able to get to that tournament. And so I reached a lot of my personal goals but we didn't reach that tournament, which was a team goal, but we didn't reach that tournament, which was a team goal. And that's where, you know, really was kind of learning the dynamics of leadership, the dynamics of, really, when you want to get something as big as a goal as reaching the tournament and winning a championship, the level of commitment and being on the same page your teammates have to have and you all have to really be locked in, from the starting five to the last one on a bench.
Speaker 2:And you know, we I really learned that a lot of lessons. And so for me, the college experience, you know was, was was good. I mean I came short of some goals but all in all, the things I set out to accomplish I accomplished personally, but of course, the team goals we fell short and I think there was a big lesson in that for me. My you know what I was majoring in and having more ownership, when we talk about ownership of your own destiny. That's another lesson I learned that it's not someone else's decision to say, oh, you should do this or do that, really taking more ownership on what direction you go.
Speaker 1:And how easy do you think it would have been to take that ownership at that age? How easy do you think it would have?
Speaker 2:been to take that ownership at that age. Definitely not easy. I mean, you know, now that I'm older of course I can look back and say, you know, dang, but of course it does require those around you to be willing to make the best decision for the athlete, to really help that athlete make the best decision not the decision that works for everyone, to find a middle ground for everyone and that's kind of the you know. I guess that's the pressure that my generation has to go back and put on these institutions and teams and leagues and say, no, we, this is, this, can't be what, this, this doesn't need to be the case. And yeah, I think, I think at that age there's no way for me to really have made that decision alone.
Speaker 1:What support? Looking back, what support did you? What support did you have? And I suppose I'm thinking, yeah, for that academic piece. But then also, when you look at the options you had towards the end of your college, from sport or what's next, what was the structure that you had around you to help you make better decisions?
Speaker 2:I mean at school, of course, we have our um, you have your athletic, your the, the individuals that are set for the team to help you with your athletics, help you, you know, go to training tables, make sure you know you're eating right, etc. Um, but again, some of those individuals are stretched thin and have a lot of things on their plate. I think the ecosystem at Indiana was fairly good, but again, when I talk about having real information to make the best decisions at your fingertips, that's not necessarily the case. We had individuals, we had a nutritionist, but was it, you know, really built and tailored for me? You know, we had our trainer who was very much so open and I think that was a great resource. He was a great resource for me as far as getting me in shape, but when it came to really balancing and managing my time school and basketball I will say it was more so.
Speaker 2:How can we push school to be managed and make that easier so this part can flourish? And there weren't really many resources that fought back to say let's find a way to make this happen. And again, whose fault is that? We don't know, but there wasn't really a resource during my time that really made that possible. There was no leeway from the other end of the sports side to say, well, we have to shift to make sure she can get this done. To say, well, we have to shift to make sure she can get this done. And I think now possibly schools stateside are trying to make that happen, but not necessarily because people are still having degrees that they leave with and you're like, yeah, you're going to have to go back to school when you're done playing.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's very true, I think there is. When you're done playing yes, it's very true, I think there is you have this sort of two tier or two approaches that are there. One is tick the box but focus on the, this academic part, and then, sorry, focus on the athletic part with a view on okay, yeah, you, maybe you saw that out later, but right now I need you on the team, let's go and play. And you have others who are. You use the beautiful word the ecosystem. They're building out the ecosystem to help, to help the athletes make that better decision, which is what it's not just about now. It is about what's going to come next and let's make sure we're setting you up for a best, a best version of yourself, you know, giving the choices open to you right.
Speaker 2:I will say another thing just to to praise coach jack. She did set up something called the. You know, given the summertime worked with two of them. They were CEOs of two Fortune 500 companies and I was able to intern and work in the summer with both of those companies and so I do think in that regard, it did allow me early access to what it is to have a job, go through that process and better understand what skills and traits I needed and get more experience to see if this is something I even want to do, which is, I think, a big thing for athletes.
Speaker 2:While we're playing, we need to be able to explore more and be more curious and try things to see what we like outside of sport, compared to just being focused and when it ends we have to figure that out.
Speaker 2:It's kind of late. How can we experience things in small engagements or short term to say, huh, I kind of did that. I don't like that, but I have time, I'm still actively playing and it works, so I will say that was a resource. Actively playing and it works, so I will say that was a resource within the ecosystem that did benefit me, compared to some players I know didn't have anything like that and that was something that Coach Jack, strategically and on her own, did. The university didn't. And so, again, having someone like her and I think she did it because of the dynamic of the type of women and the nationality and all of that of the women she had on the team at that time, she knew it was important for us and our success, and so that is one positive for my time at IU that I know really helped me.
Speaker 1:And when you look at yourself as a CEO today, what do you think you picked up from just that experience, or those two experiences that you described there?
Speaker 2:As they say, the cliche representation matters. And they were two Caucasian women, of course, but they were women that were leading these companies. That were leading these companies and you know that was key. And watching them come and being able to sit in on certain meetings and how they delegated and made decisions, that was wonderful. And now, talking about it, you know I'm like, ah, that probably did impact me more than I know to say, hey, I'm going to do this. And actually two of them before I started Wevolve, I actually reached out to them to discuss what I was trying to do. So I do think it impacted me a lot because I was able to see that it's possible that two women had the ability to run a company and not only just a company, a fortune 500 company, um, and yeah, that was. That was wonderful and it impacted me tremendously.
Speaker 1:That's, that's really good. And uh, I'm, I'm. I'm sure that even after this conversation now you're going to think, yeah, that has been a difference. Yeah, okay, we're going to do something. Well, good, I mean, this mean, this is it, and, and so often these experiences, yeah, they may have an impact at the time, open your eyes to certain things, but now, as we mature as individuals, you can look back and again those little little sparks, little moments that you can think of and go, oh, maybe I need to implement this in my world today. How do I now do that and again represent, as you've just said? So I'm curious, then, now for this shift from college so towards the end of college. How did you then start to make that decisions on what was next for you from a sporting perspective?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this is where the decisions get a little get even harder, um, because navigating that that journey was was really tough. Um, so once I graduated, of course you know I knew my name was on the draft boards to potentially be drafted. I wasn't sure, though. Finding an agent was basically asking my coach I think I want to play pro and her putting a name that I could. You know you could possibly reach out to him. He's an agent, I know, but there was no real structure of how to, you know, go through this program or anything. It was really just like all right, it was great, you're done, now you're potentially could be drafted. What's next? Um, and so that was really difficult.
Speaker 2:I was interviewing agents on my own. Uh, of course, my parents, you know they they've never done that before. Uh, so what can they really say besides? Oh, make sure you talk to them and ask the right questions. They don't really know what questions to really ask, and so you know it was a very uninformed. Cross my fingers, pray on it. I'm going to get some shots, I'm going to work hard in the gym and it's going to all work itself out, which we hear I hear players still to this day, say it Um, but that's not necessarily sometimes how life works. Um, that's your talent alone in these spaces, don't? It's not enough? Um so for me, I landed up on an agent, and um, joey, did you feel lost during that stage?
Speaker 2:Joey did you feel lost during that stage. Oh, very lost, confused, wasn't sure who I could pick up the phone and call. Everyone I was asking was kind of giving generalized feedback Like, yeah, you got to get an agent and oh, you can score, so you'll be okay if you go overseas. You can score, so you'll be okay if you go overseas those types of things, and not real strategic, high value insights and information for me to make a decision and take the right next steps.
Speaker 1:So how did you make the next step?
Speaker 2:I asked some of my peers who were like one year ahead of me, which, again, when you look back you're like they didn't know either. But you know, found my first agent, basically from someone I knew who was already overseas and was like, oh, you could call them, called them, and that's in a sense who I signed with. The first one I did have a funny story One of the managers team managers he was from Florida, his family was from Boca Raton area, so around a lot of bigger name people and I went to visit and his mom was like, oh, I know Wasserman agent and stuff, and at that time I didn't really know who these agencies actually go after. But later on I learned that agent at Wasserman goes after the number one draft picks only. So it was kind of like, yeah, here I am trying to reach an agent that I'm not on their radar at all and there's no way they can help me. So again, those types of things of just trying to go to different people to help and no one really knows how this works. But I did land up on the agent. I interviewed with her, I asked general questions and everything they all said. Now, again, looking back, how was I supposed to fact check what they were saying to me. How would I know they've signed all these players all over, unless I go call each one individually? There's no stat sheet on them. Their websites have all their players on it with no real information on them, and to this day it's the same. And so all you can do is try to catch a vibe and hope that your intuition is correct and go from there.
Speaker 2:I was actually in a class, I believe, and I was drafted. A student stopped class and said hey, I just want to say congratulations to Jory for being drafted to the Indiana Fever. I was like what? Had no idea? Had no idea. Had no idea. Had an agent, as when he was saying it, she's calling. I step out of class and she's like congratulations. And you know, usually you have this, this perception that you're in. You know, you're sitting with your agents and they're like oh, we're working to get this team no, had no idea Drafted. I'm like, oh great, my parents called, we got the fever. They were at home watching the draft.
Speaker 2:None of us knew if I would get drafted or not, and so the person that actually, ironically, gave me the most information was another manager who was also happened to be a ball boy for the Indiana Fever and he was kind of laying out the like this is the team most likely, this is the positions you have to go for in training camp to get on the team, and that none of that was talked to me with my agent. I remember the manager, I believe, sent the contract. I don't remember speaking it over with my agent. I signed the contract, of course, without doing anything, of course, because it's like oh, let's go, I'm assigned ready to give me training camp.
Speaker 2:And from there I was cut early and then I was back to square one of like so what do we do now? My agent's like oh well, I have a job in Israel was the only offer she gave me. There were no options. It was like you got to go to Israel, okay, I have to go to Israel. So again, looking back, you're like what? That's not how it should work, that's the you know. It was like oh, you're going here as if I work for you. You know, like, I'm your contracted, I work for your agency per se, not the other way around. And I was told my mom they were like Israel and the journey started for me. I went to Israel and got on a plane and I was off, but again there was a number of decisions made that I had no real stake in.
Speaker 2:I was not at the table making any decision. It was just kind of like things were being done and I was just there, right.
Speaker 1:I like the way you just mentioned there who's working for whom. Right Like agent player you know who's paying whom?
Speaker 1:in many respects, so, but that comes down to kind of, as you were saying, you as an athlete, there you have this desire to go pro. So that's the dream and you're seeing, if I'm right, you saw the agent as the one who enables that, who facilitates that for you. Yeah, correct, and and so naturally there's a lot of trust that you would at least want to put into that individual, that that firm, to help get you to where you need to go blind trust yeah, again, because that lack of, I guess, transparency or visibility, like to do the fact checking uh, what, what does that look like?
Speaker 1:so yeah, just on on that theme then. So, as you move to what is it? Four different continents, you, you, you played the contracts always in english, always in us dollars, is it? Is it consistent in that way as you move around?
Speaker 2:Nope, sometimes they were in different languages. Example in Israel they paid me in shekels and I had. Well, they paid me in USD in Israel and I would have to take a certain amount and convert it for spending money while I was in the country. It for spending money while I was in the country. Some countries paid you in Euro. Some countries paid you in USD, which at the earlier stage I realized no, I should have put it in Euro because the Euro was much stronger. So when I converted it to go home I would have had more money than the original agreement of the contract. So some contracts they would have it in their language and then the other side it was in English translated. But again, if you sign it and it says one thing in the other language, it's still legally binding and you're just trusting that the agent knows.
Speaker 2:And there's a few countries I went into that, my agent at the time he wasn't from those countries, he didn't speak those languages. So again, how was he checking it? There was no chat GPT back then and their Google Translate I don't even think was available back then. So they weren't even checking it, I'm sure. So again, it was a lot of dynamics. Sometimes countries that didn't give you a bank account, you had to kind of do it on your own or just stuff the cash and pray you don't get stopped when you're heading back to America at Christmas.
Speaker 1:That's why that's, that's an interesting way of uh, of repatriating your, your earnings, um, you know so, so for you, as you travel. Like you, you wanted to be a pro. You'd made it as a pro. How did that feel?
Speaker 2:truthfully, it going to israel and you, I didn't feel like a pro. I think I was shocked. You know, now I and again, this is a little bit of therapy, ryan, thank you I'm revisiting this in a deeper, deeper level right now. Um, going to Israel, I was shocked when you think about I'm pro now and everyone like, oh, you made it. You know, I was making like $17,000.
Speaker 2:I was in a four bedroom house with the other girls that were pros and some of them were way older than me. They were, you know, like six years ahead of me. We all shared a house, we shared one car, me. We all shared a house, we shared one car, and it was kind of like I had the smallest room because I was the rookie and yeah, it was kind of like, wow, all right. But I think at the time they get you because you're like okay, I'm going to go here, I'm going to do what I have to do, and then I'm going to the W. So it was kind of like my mind wasn't this is it. My mind was like okay, I have to take this step to get here, and I think that's also where they get you. You know, the system gets you. It's like, yeah, go here, you keep fighting, you keep fighting, you'll get here. And so for me, that first step was kind of like I didn't feel like, oh yeah, I'm a pro. I felt like, man, all right, I guess we got to fight to get out of here.
Speaker 2:My initial thought, of course, but it was also the beauty of Israel's beautiful country, I mean the water, the beaches, the food. I also had a great time. I mean, it's definitely one of my best experience from a lifestyle standpoint, and so it's also that kind of element that some things were a shock. But also there were things that I was living a lifestyle that no one else could afford to do. If they were leaving America and coming, they can't do that, there's no way they could do that. So I think it wasn't so much like, oh yeah, I'm a pro. I think it was just like, all right, this is the next step. I don't think I realized, I don't think I put so much emphasis like I was a pro, as if if I did make it to the W, I probably would have felt like, oh my God, I made it to pro. So, yeah, I think that was my my feeling at that time.
Speaker 1:So now what? What was it then that enabled you or made you think more direct in some respects? Why did you then find you move to not just different clubs, but moved countries as well? What was behind that decision making?
Speaker 2:um, there was no real decision being made. Uh, truthfully, like again, it was just say you know you have no idea about the landscape or how to navigate this part of the business. You know as an overseas athlete and how the landscape is in. To navigate this part of the business as an overseas athlete and how the landscape is in Europe, you don't know. You're just kind of going following what the agents are telling you and you're just kind of like well, can I get more money? There's no decision matrix to say, okay, this is what I want, these are my goals. That was never the communication that was happening. You just kind of trusted that that agent knows what's best for you. And so this is where I'm going.
Speaker 2:In general, it's common for basketball for women to go team to team. Most might stay two years, but it's one year usually every team. Why? Maybe it's the management in women's sport that they feel they can. Some people say that the owners are kind of like playing NBA 2K but with real life people. It's like hey, I'm going to trade this one, I'm going to get this one and we're going to get to the, and so it's a bit of that, it's a bit of coaches change. So that means the players need to change and coaches are changing every year, so they're not consistent, which means when that new coach comes, they're not just keeping the same team. Now they come in and they want to change things, which causes also the players to have to change, and then it's, it's. It's really for me.
Speaker 2:I would have stayed in Israel, but at that time I decided to fire my agent, which was where I learned about partners. My agent was American. She had an Israeli partner and when I fired her, that meant the teams that were asking for me. He wouldn't get the commission, meant the teams that were asking for me. He wouldn't get the commission. So he was her local person on the ground. She was in America.
Speaker 2:So now, when it's like Jory's not on our list anymore, that means even though coaches wanted me, he blocked that to get someone else that he knew he could get the money for. And I found that out afterwards when I didn't have a job after that year, because a team wrote me on Facebook it's like where are you? And I was like at home. And they were like I, you know, we were told you were too expensive and you were going somewhere else and that's why I was like, ah, okay, this is how this works, and so that's where it was like having a direct. That's where I felt having being able to go direct or someone being able to actually come tell me they want me, would have worked in my favor, compared to putting my hands in these, the hands of middlemen that are playing their own game.
Speaker 1:How did that change? I suppose the rest of your career so far yeah.
Speaker 2:So one starting at that salary level impacted me, because the way the market works overseas is kind of like oh, you're at this level, so that's your worth, and so that impacted how I could keep building to get more money, because I started so low. It hurt me and it wasn't based on logical things like this is what she's done, her statistics and the awards she's won. It was like, oh yeah, she's a great player, but oh, we're only going to pay her this a little bit more because this is what her payment tier is. But on the flip side, I had no insight into what others in the market were making to be able to fight back on that, and you know. So that impacted me.
Speaker 2:The other way it impacted me is that I was scrambling to find representation.
Speaker 2:I was scrambling to find one, a job but then I knew I needed an agent to get me the job, because there's no marketplace where I can go direct. I don't have a network abroad. And so it impacted me because I was playing and going through my career while trying to land on a good person to represent me, and that took me three years where I met who was my agent today, and the fourth year I stayed in that same country so I didn't change to him then. But then when I was done that fourth year, that's when I switched to the agent I had today. So it impacted me because I made mistakes by trying to one, still navigating, finding the right agent that fit, but then also through that navigation, going to teams and maybe not really strategically, having a plan and making sure I'm getting paid my worth, which would impact what other teams set my value at, and that just that kind of hurt me. For when I did get stable, then I was back fighting to get up and up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm curious because I think here we're starting this journey into Weevolve and, as those I'm going to say, the breadcrumbs building to, you know, to your time, certainly in Italy, but the breadcrumbs building to that. I'm curious, though. Prior to that, or indeed when you considered the end of your careers like well, someday this is going to finish, to what extent did you think about what you would do after basketball To what extent did you think about what you would do after basketball?
Speaker 2:Well, I always my father always was like you are a dual career athlete, and what that meant for him was that you have your education and your other career and then you have your athletic career, and he's always instilled that into me. That's why education was always important. So I always had that in the back of my mind that you're a dual career athlete, despite me having being blessed, despite everything I've said, and still was a blessing that I've got to do what I what I get to do. Um, and so for me, what is you mean?
Speaker 1:what career? Yeah, yeah, what's the dual career path? So, as you were playing, so what? What was that dual career path for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, for me again, the dual career was always educating myself, whether that be still, you know, reading up on things. If it's reading books, you're still investing in yourself the other side of who you are as a woman, as an individual. I wasn't studying or doing a side hustle at that time, but when I would go home in the summers, I was always working. So I was working the EYBL tournaments or I was during the time where I didn't have a playing job. After Israel, I was working at Paychex. I went, applied for a job and I got a job and I was working and training until the time came, and so I always going back to Indiana as well.
Speaker 2:I always made sure I was doing something to keep networking and keep investing in myself away from sport, and that has always been consistent. And so it was, yeah, year seven for me in Italy where I came to that realization that maybe this is not the best, maybe I need to start looking into focusing more on that other side of the dual career journey. And that's pretty much where it kind of progressed for me to say, okay, this has been great thus far, I've done great things, I've led leagues in scoring. But I've done great things, I've led leagues in scoring, but the salary doesn't. It doesn't match, you know, the expectations of life and I'm like, yeah, maybe it's time to start shifting my focus great, and, and so what Weevolve is is your brand today.
Speaker 1:It's what it is today. When you started to recognize this discrepancy for players or, you know, I guess, athletes in general and the sporting industry, how did that begin? I kind of wonder what was the first thing you started to explore or do to get to where you are now?
Speaker 2:Well, I read. I was actually reading a lot of self-help books and books to figure out you know what, jory? It's time I was reading different books.
Speaker 1:What were you reading? Do you remember?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was reading you know, start Late, finish Rich was more so around individuals at certain ages like how you can still change your financial status and everything and really end up wealthy Again. Rich is not only money Wealth is much more than money, of course, we know that famous quote but just how to have a more fulfilled lifestyle when it comes to your finances, etc. More fulfilled lifestyle when it comes to your finances, et cetera. I was reading Rich Dad, poor Dad, which I read in high school. My dad gave me that book, but I was reading it again how to Win Friends and Influence People the typical books that people put in your hands.
Speaker 2:I was reading and just listening to more podcasts, and it was actually during Start Late, and it was actually during Start Late, finish Rich. The book was explaining different ways that you can build a life for yourself and, of course, business was one of them. And it was explaining how to identify what type of business you would want to do. And it was talking about, you know, take something that's from your actual life, a pain point, and I was just sitting there and I'm like, yeah, and I was just sitting there and I'm like, yeah, and I came across Rich Barton and his story with Microsoft and how he had traveled to Italy and that's when the idea of Expedia came, because he was frustrated with his bookings and everything and he went back to Microsoft. He had the luxury to go back to Microsoft.
Speaker 2:I didn't have the luxury to go to a Microsoft and say, can I build this with a new ecosystem, but he built Expedia, built Glassdoor and, of course, he was also earlier stages in Zillow and his thing was Mr Power to the people and his fight was the asymmetry of information for everyday customers. That was locked away. They couldn't do things on their own. And I was like that's the exact same thing I'm feeling as an athlete. And I started to see, all right, well, what's out there, somebody has to be doing something like Rich Barton in our space. And I couldn't find it. And it was that moment that that's where I came like whoa, I started getting docs and like writing and like, okay, what if Glassdoor existed for athletes? What if, like Zillow, I could go direct to a team and the team could come direct to me? And you know, it just started spiraling. I was every day like leaving practice, like ready to get back and start researching, like what could we construct for athletes, and that's where it all took off and that's.
Speaker 1:that's great. I mean I, like you said earlier on that education, that desire to learn and starting off your career, believing yourself to be a dual athlete, which are dual career athlete, which to an extent means the transition is is simpler. The transition isn't one where it's well, I'm a pro athlete, boom, that stops and I'm something else, but you're setting up yourself mentally to work on both and it's really the balance, the equation, that shifts.
Speaker 2:Yes, that balance, I believe, as everyone is looking for.
Speaker 2:How do we help athletes transition? It starts the day that you pick up that, whatever sport you start, I think the transition should be happening from the first day to the time you say, okay, I'm done, because to just stop and you weren't thinking about it at all, you didn't get to explore, you didn't get to paint or do other things with your life to see what do I actually like. That's where it causes the issues that we know to be prevalent. That's all over the news and blogs about athlete transition, and so I think, yeah, balancing that throughout my career was the key that allowed me to get a little further ahead. Now I won't say the. You know, when I am officially, officially done that I won't still have the emotions and the feelings and have to do work. You know, you know mentally and everything to do, work mentally and everything to really say bye to this game I do love, but I do think I will probably be a little further along than some of my peers that weren't doing the work and exploring what they're interested in while playing.
Speaker 1:And so for you, today, the impact that you're having. You know we spoke about, I guess, the creation or the inspiration behind the business. If you think about the athletes that you're supporting today, how do you think it's impacting them?
Speaker 2:Well, I think having an ally is the biggest thing. I think at this point that you know, I've been there where you're just kind of like you have nowhere to go, no-transcript. They're like, oh, that's how it works. So I think the impact is that it's helping players to be informed and they're starting to kind of put pieces together and feel more empowered, like yeah, I can do this. You know, like, ok, I know where I could go, I'll go to Wevolve and we'll figure it out. So I think that's been it.
Speaker 2:I think community of having a group yes, still a small group, but being able to come and be like, oh, I can find two or three people that can help me and talk to me and understand my unique journey Community, I think, has been the big one.
Speaker 2:We've had digital sessions that have gone like five hours over five hours just talking in athletes in different countries, picking a time and just getting on a digital platform just to talk. That shows how important, imperative and how much we need community. And it's not just community to say, okay, we got this brand, and for athletes it's like no, we need to actually holistically find time to come together. And I think that's the power of Weevolve. Despite the technology and all these other things, it's a simple fact of who's willing to do the community work, which takes time, it takes effort and it takes going knock on your community's doors and say, hey, what's your name? This is what I'm trying to do and I think that's been the impact we've had on players to say, ok, jory's doing it and let's just keep kind of rolling and keep going and oh, I can start my little thing, and I think that's the impact that it's had thus far.
Speaker 1:I've held you for for way too long, so I really appreciate your time this is super fascinating.
Speaker 1:Now we're gonna have people listening. They're gonna be googling, indeed probably clicking on the show notes, getting to wevolve. There's a young athlete out there who's thinking, yeah, um, I'm wanting to go overseas, or I'm wanting to, in fact, just move to the next level, doesn't even need to be overseas. I think I need representation or support. They're coming on. They want to go on to the wevolve site. What do they do to sign up? How do you help them?
Speaker 2:yeah, so again, uh, right now, what you would do is you would just go to the weevil site or just download the app. You will request the invite. Um, we would obviously reach out to you, of course, if you're not invited by one of the advocates that are already in the weevil ecosystem, due to the fact that it is very much a lot of professional athletes. But if you are looking to join, you would just go to the app, download it, request an invite. You'll get a call, we'll reach out to you and then from there we'll have an intake process where we'll ensure that your needs are met. We'll let usher you into the platform where you'll find different resources that already exist.
Speaker 2:If you're looking for an agent being able to really engage, ask anonymous questions, if you feel the way, you can ask anonymous questions and mentors and veterans can respond if they know the answer to those questions. But then also, of course, if you're just coming into the pro space, we would be sure to match you with a mentor and then we would help you prepare to ask those questions about the agent, but, of course, help you create a plan for yourself, first, before you get an agent, because it's your journey and what you want and then you can decide who's the best person to hire to help you reach your goals. So that would be the first start. But they can download that app, request an invite and then Weevolve would directly connect with them and, of course, in the future, we hope that you'll be able to go to your local union or the union that in the country you represent and that represents you, and then, of course, they would be able to provide a invite to Weevolve as well and share those resources with the union and also the Weevolve community.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, thank you. Thanks a lot, and look, I know you're still playing and again, people are going to want to follow your story. What's the best way to find you and maybe even get in contact to bounce ideas or ask a question?
Speaker 2:yeah. So the first one all athletes should have a linkedin, so find me on linkedin. Jory davis is my name. There's two little fists in the middle of my name, so you'll definitely recognize me. So get a linkedin and find me there, uh. Secondly, you can find me on find me on ig, jory davis 32 twitter. I am jory davis32, twitter. I am Jory Davis. Dm me for sure, of course. Request that invite and at this stage in Weevolve, this early stage, you'll definitely get a message from me if you do that. So it'll be definitely from me. You'll get a personalized reach out and then from there you'll be able to message me directly on the application. Et can find me at jory at wevolvenet if you want to email me, and then, of course, you can also contact us via the website jury.
Speaker 1:I want to say thanks very much for your time today. Thoroughly enjoyed our conversation, thank you yeah, thank you, ryan.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it and I look forward to hearing the rest of the podcast down the pipeline thank you for listening to the Second Win podcast.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwinio for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy until next time.
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