2ndwind Academy Podcast
2ndwind Academy Podcast
125: Josh Perry - From BMX Pro to Embracing New Challenges
What happens when a BMX champion swaps the adrenaline rush of biking for the tranquil greens of golf? Join us as Josh, a former professional BMX athlete, narrates this unlikely transformation. After a brain tumor diagnosis, Josh reevaluated his life priorities and took the bold step to transition into a sport where every swing is both a challenge and a chance for growth. Discover how BMX's demand for adaptability and mental focus parallels the world of golf, providing new avenues for fulfillment and self-expression.
Tune in to learn more about:
- Why true mastery isn’t about perfection, but about constant growth; mentally, physically, and emotionally.
- The surprising parallels between BMX and golf, and how golf became a source of healing and purpose for Josh.
- Exploring the surprising parallels between the two sports
- Josh’s raw account of surviving brain tumors and navigating the emotional toll of loss.
- How sponsorship pressures and public expectations shaped Josh’s sense of self, and how he rediscovered his worth beyond sports.
- His powerful advocacy for mental health, metabolic health, and a balanced, mindful approach to wellness.
…and so much more!
Are you looking for Career Clarity for your next step, for more information, or to book a consultancy, make sure you check out www.2ndwind.io
Links:
Website: https://www.joshperrybmx.com/
Linkedin:https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshperrybmx/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/joshperrybmx
I want to understand a bit about you know you described yourself as a shy young man. I'm interested in how BMX, how sport, came into your life.
Speaker 2:So I was skateboarding and rollerblading in like the late 90s when X Games started getting really popular, and I've been riding a bike not like a BMX bike but just like a cheap bike from like one of the stores back then and on the ramps and stuff like that. So I just kind of got exposed to it at a young age. But I've been playing school sports since, like T-ball when I was in elementary school and it was the idea of I was. I remember this I was playing basketball in like fifth grade or something like that and I missed a shot. It was an important shot, would have won us the game. I had done like a, like an awesome move and then missed the shot and the coach just like kind of yelled at me and this is at least my perception of the experience and teammates and stuff like that. And then what I noticed on bmx was like this freedom to do it, however I wanted to, whatever level, and it was all based upon how I showed up.
Speaker 1:Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people after all. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Hey, josh, thanks for joining me today. Welcome to the Second Wind Academy podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it and it's good to see you. I know we're like way different time zones.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, we are. See, that's the beauty of well, actually I'm going to say, in some respects, the beauty of COVID means that now we're very comfortable chatting on video going across time zones, and it means I get to have, uh, get to meet great people like yourself who I think have got a fabulous story around career and our sporting athletic career, and then that transition into that life beyond, although just as we're catching up, it does seem like you've jumped straight in to um, into golf and you know, jumping off there with a, with a, a single digit handicap, which, I must admit, I'm quite impressed about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it took me a little while to get there, but yeah, I during. So January 2020, I decided to stop riding BMX altogether and that was an experiment to figure out who I was. Without that, those three letters BMX attached to my name picked up. Golf Pandemic happened two months later, so my dad got a new set of clubs, sent me his old set and then four months later, so my dad got a new set of clubs, sent me his old set and then, four months later, I bought my first pair of golf shoes.
Speaker 1:And that's when I said I officially started golfing. And it is as simple as that. Oh, but I love that. I think that's great. Well, it is. It is interesting. I speak to a lot of athletes on the show and there's always this thing of leaving the sport or that principal sport behind, but nearly always find ourselves jumping into another athletic pursuit. You know, there's just that, I don't know, be it body movement or something, those lines. I mean what? Well, since we're here, what's attracted you to playing golf?
Speaker 2:mainly it was the very low risk of concussion or broken bones, opposed to freestyle BMX where land on the ground quite a bit if you don't land the trick. So that was the initial. I was just trying to find something that could do physically active, competitively, that didn't have high risk of injury or concussion. After that, when I got into it, I was like, oh, there's a lot of parallels from freestyle BMX, because if you land just slightly lower or too short on a ramp that affects your speed, then you have to adjust, you have to adapt and then the new environments, you're at the contest. They're all ramp. All the ramps are different setups, and so I love the adaptability piece and then, with golf, the mindset piece.
Speaker 2:I think it's just as strong, if not more challenging, than any other sport, because the small ball lying on the big ball that is the earth does not move. Everything you do affects where that ball goes and it is the most difficult physical thing I've ever tried to do consistently well, and I don't think that'll ever be a thing and I don't think there's any way to master the sport. Even the best of the best say they have days where they get lucky, or it's a game of misses or they just don't know how to golf anymore, and so I just love all the challenges and then the parallels that come from uh, that I see in bmx, like the adaptability piece, like just being able to adapt to new environments. Even if it's the same course, you're never going to have the same lie of the ball. The conditions may be a little different, the angles, like all that stuff. So I just I just love the challenge and the chase that's, that's really poetic description of golf.
Speaker 1:um, you know, I suppose I've never really thought of it in that way myself, but the bit about never really being able to master it, but it sounds like it's the pursuit of that mastery, the pursuit of the game. It'd been different every time and it's like it's then this constant challenge.
Speaker 2:That's how I see mastery. The way I see mastery is it's not an end product, it's not a destination, it's not an outcome, it's a commitment to improvement in a life, lifelong time of improvement. And so this idea of mastery, that won't happen in the game of golf. It's based on the skill. But when you look at it as like the commitment to improving, then in my mind you're not mastering the thing you're mastering yourself because you're overcoming your past self. And that's something I've learned is the evolution of who we aspire to be. That old, comfortable, familiar self is going to come back and pull us back to those times because it's familiar, it's comfortable, it's safe. But the idea of mastery to me is just commitment to overcoming our past self. Game of golf is very triggering.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is. I mean, wow, that overcoming your past self. I'm going to have to let that settle. That's going to settle whilst we go through this conversation. I think I'm just going to keep interpreting that myself, because I love the idea of mastery, this pursuit of excellence. But what I think you have said that certainly resonates with me is we enjoying that pursuit of excellence is all part of mastery in itself, and enjoying that journey, enjoying the learning, the ups and downs of that journey, is all part of mastery, which I guess, for many elite athletes, is what it's about. It's about trying to get to the top of the game and well, if it were easy, we'd probably switch off, but the challenge is what brings us there all the time.
Speaker 2:The difficulty, the resistance, that's what's appealing, it's that overcoming. If it was just easy to do. I mean, I've seen a lot of people with natural talent come into the sport of BMX and just kind of wander off because it's it loses their attention. There's obviously a lot more behind that, but I think that, uh, the saying is like, if it was easy, everyone would do it, and I think that if it was easy, we wouldn't work, um, to have those things, because it wouldn't be as valuable because of what goes into the process of obtaining those things that are worth the work and what I I think is also interesting is that that worth you know, certainly over time.
Speaker 1:Coming back to it, it does touch on the piece you said earlier that lifelong learning or mastery, that, that pursuit, and when I think of career and one of the big pieces I really try and get across is, you know, a career transition or a career shift is in some respects just a shift of what you're learning, or you know what you're, where you're putting your time, and so that lifelong learning approach towards career and indeed towards life is really important. You've described that beautifully, eloquently from you know, from one sport, bmx into golf, and I think it's great and we've only just kicked off the conversation.
Speaker 2:So this is awesome, josh yeah, I see it as like um, you're experiencing things, you're developing new skills, new knowledge and throughout that at least in my experience, I would argue if people take a step back and reflect, it's a shift of values and priorities over time, and it's only when we resist those shifts of values and priorities over time and it's only when we resist those shifts of values and priorities that we meet the resistance that keeps us stuck, and so that's something I experienced quite a bit. The last two or three years of my BMX career weren't even a career, because I wasn't doing it professionally. I was just training in the gym the same way I'd done, and then training on the ramps, progressing still, but wasn't working with sponsors anymore, wasn't competing. I just I didn't. I honestly I didn't know what to do anymore.
Speaker 2:So I was doing the same thing that I'd done for my you know that time 13, 15 years of my life, at the same time, the same places, with the same people on the same ramps and was just going through the motions and autopilot. So it was when I stopped resisting that pull towards new values, new priorities, new aspirations and started letting go of the perception I thought I had to hold up for other people. That's when life started to get really interesting, because it was that identity piece that kept me trapped in the past. It was familiar. So anytime I met resistance with my path today, speaking and coaching I go back to my comfort zone. And then I'd wonder why I felt stuck and I wasn't making progress with this new career path, and then so I had to take it away from myself. That's how I look at it.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great perspective. You I mean what you've described is this sort of natural pull, and I think of this sort of systems approach here, where, as you operate, as we operate as individuals, we have natural desires to learn or go and explore and do things. And, if I understand correctly, what you're saying is as a as a bmx um professional. You were, you're going through the motions, you're doing everything that ascribed to you, as this is me as a guy who does BMX, bmx. But even while doing that, over the decade and a bit, in some respects you were shutting off or at least reducing this pull to go and explore other things, learn other activities. And so it was towards the end of your BMX career where you started to well, actually let those things seep in, which meant you let go of bmx in some respects and started moving into other new things and new passions and interests yeah.
Speaker 2:So the timeline, january 2020, is when I mentioned I had taken bmx away from myself. It started as an experiment to figure out who I was. 10 years prior to that was the first brain tumor diagnosis. That was a result of hitting my head, getting a a concussion, being denied a scan for a year, year and a half because of headaches, vision problems, migraines. It took that crash to get the MRI and then they accidentally found a massive brain tumor. That was in 2010.
Speaker 2:So for 10 years, I had become passionate about learning about. I didn't know this is what I was learning about. I just thought I was learning about nutrition and all these lifestyle things, but it was metabolic health and how that impacts our mental health, our brain health, our emotional health, our physical health, spiritual health, all those things. So, for all of those that decade that interest, that passion was growing and growing, but I was suppressing my true self and irony that I'm learning in therapy of how I actually got into BMX with a whole. That's a whole different story. But I was suppressing this piece of me because the performance piece of being an athlete is what gave me validation and acceptance and interest from other people, because growing up as a shy and secure boy, I found the freedom to express myself in the sport and I got good at it because I wasn't naturally talented, I had to work at it, opposed to my friends that I grew up with. That went in different paths. I kept going because I kept progressing and I was just, I was just driven by it. But it was really that freedom to express myself, and so it wasn't until about 2019 when I started to notice this gap inside of me was growing, this gap of who I felt called to the work I felt called to do, this draw, as you mentioned, that I was being pulled towards and this thing that was keeping me safe in the familiar past, which was my past self, that was still presenting itself today.
Speaker 2:It was based on other people's perceptions Like who am I? You know, if I go do this, like what are they going to think of me? It was all these unconscious stories and these fears, but it took all of the learning of doing the conscious work of going deep into my mind. I was working with a coach during that time that helped me.
Speaker 2:So, um, it was really just a act of suppressing myself because the resistance and the fear of the unknown, even though I was passionate about it and it had so much value, I hadn't yet made that decision. So that's where I was like I'm learning. I'm like all in or I'm all out. That's why I have few hobbies and I was just like all right, bmx has to go away, cause it's it's the adage of the tools that got you here Won't get you there. So the thing that had got me to where I was in life, literally saved my life, got me through so many doors, met some of my best friends around the world, my wife, like all these things, it was now, at best, holding me back, at worst, pulling me down and further behind.
Speaker 1:There's so much to unpack there. I mean that is fascinating. What I want to do is I want to understand a bit about you. Know you described yourself as a shy young man.
Speaker 2:I'm interested in how bmx, how sport, came into your life so I was skateboarding and rollblading in like the late 90s when x games started getting really popular, and I've been riding a bike not like a bmx bike but just like a cheap bike from like one of the stores back then and, uh, on the ramps and stuff like that. So I just kind of get exposed to at a young age. But I've been playing school sports since, like t-ball when I was in elementary school and it was the idea of I was, I remember this I was playing basketball in like fifth grade or something like that and I missed a shot. It was an important shot, would have won us the game. I had done like a good, awesome move and then missed the shot and the coach just like kind of yelled at me and this is at least my perception of the experience and teammates and stuff like that. And then what I noticed on bmx was like this freedom to do it, however I wanted to, whatever level, and it was all based upon how I showed up, and so I really was drawn to that, because to me it was like oh, I, I don't like this pressure, I don't like being scolded for the thing I know I just made a mistake with and I just kept going that route and then it turned into this the bike was a physical freedom to like leave my house, go to my friend's house. I had a rough upbringing with an abusive stepfather, so like that was always kind of unconsciously in the back of my mind, was like escape, and so literally could go to my friend's house or go to the skate parks and things like that.
Speaker 2:And then as I built up my skill, my confidence grew with my abilities and then I just pulled from different riders that I really enjoyed their style and the trick selection.
Speaker 2:I formed my own and then, like I mentioned earlier, that started to get notoriety from my peers and then started competing regionally, like locally and then regionally and then nationally. And so I saw again unconscious, at 16, 17 years old I started getting acceptance in my mind and I was fitting in and I was getting validation and so like that's just what helped that. But then, ironically, the sport I found myself in living my dream. It was a judge sport so, where I placed on the standings equated to how much money I made, and then created another problem of me having value and worth of myself to the outside world, and so that was a whole nother thing that I worked through for like 10 years was if I didn't place well, then like oh, I'm not valuable and I'm not worth anything because my pay says it, and like people think I'm a professional athlete and I'm like just trying to get by. So there's like a lot of, a lot of more, a lot more challenges that came from that. So, like realizing my dream presented even more challenges that's so true.
Speaker 1:So for you it became a dream to be a professional bmx um athlete, right, and you know. For you then, I mean that must have been a good thing. But you're saying you ascribe your value towards well, either how you placed or how much money you earned. So did you feel that you were a successful?
Speaker 2:athlete again. This was unpacked later into my 20s and then now into my 30s. At the time, though, I was wondering why, like I felt still this like weird insecure version of me. But I viewed myself as successful because I made my dream happen and I realized even then a lot of people talk about like, oh, this was my dream. Then I hate what I do now, and I was like, oh well, why I had the gifts of naiveness and lack of experience as an adult and things like that from life, but it never made sense. So I was like, oh, I'm successful.
Speaker 2:But then the insecurity of the financial component, especially around my peers, as they started to get into college and working jobs and making more money. And I'm like broke, trying to like figure out how I'm going to visit my family for the holidays, because I got this contest coming up. And then I started getting sponsors so they take care of stuff. But then I was like I still don't have cash. So it became like this flex that I hid behind, and it was like anytime I felt insecure in a room. I was like, oh, like I'm, I'm the BMX athlete, like, do you, do you live your dream? Cause I am. But it was. I wasn't happy. Uh, I was, but I wasn't. I was still struggling, and so that became uh something of its own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, happy, struggling, I mean, like you say you've, you've since unpacked it, looking back, and this is very much and it's wonderful for you to share, I guess, what you have unpacked with those listening, because you know, as, as as we go through this, you've got, uh, for many athletes just understanding that, just hearing that, whilst you are happy living the dream, or achieving that dream, of being a professional athlete, there were still struggles that went with it, and whilst that worth was ascribed to to money or sponsorships at the time, now you look back and you realize, hey, that that wasn't necessarily the healthiest thing, but at the time that was how you were living it, that's how you felt we're all just doing our best with the resources we have available to us at the time and I didn't have the gift and the resource of self-awareness back then.
Speaker 2:So I was you know I was doing well and the quote you know, you've heard this a million times like pain is inevitable. Suffering is a choice, and I find people say that in a way to say you shouldn't be suffering. But then, from an athlete's perspective, we choose suffering for vision that we're working towards and an ideal outcome and experience. And so, looking back, I talked with one of my good friends in BMX who he and I met when we were teenagers and he was like one of my groomsmen at my wedding and we're still great friends. We talk about this stuff a lot and the idea of what we were willing to do. We were willing to suffer, we consciously suffered, because we had loved it, we were obsessed with it and it was what we grew up idolizing, like the people that we saw on TV and played their video game characters. We were living in the town they lived in, friends with them and competitors with them. So so that idea of suffering, it was something that we chose and we did view ourselves successful, but again. It was an unhealthy relationship with that.
Speaker 2:And now we were just talking the other night and he's actually in Perth. He was like, man, if you were to die tomorrow? I know this is a dark thought, but if you were to die tomorrow and your death didn't affect anyone else, so get rid of other people's, like, don't worry about other people, but it's just you. No one exists anymore. But if you were to die, how would you feel?
Speaker 2:And the thought that came up was content, fulfilled, content, and then annoyed because I wasn't able to continue progressing. But then we unpacked that. That's still attached to other people, because the mission I'm on is to help other people. So we took that one away and I was like I feel pretty good about my life. And he was like, yeah, man, I don't know if we can curse on here, so I'll just be mindful of that.
Speaker 2:But he was like, yeah, dude, like the stuff we did, it was incredible, like the places we saw, the experiences we had, we met each other. It wouldn't have happened if it wasn. Most people spend a lifetime trying to find that fulfillment and and what they do and enjoy themselves. And we did that at a young age, like we're both in our early mid thirties and we're like on the next career how, how amazing is that? And so I was like man, like yeah, I've never really consciously thought about that question. But going back to your question, yeah, we, we viewed ourselves as successful, but in kind of like an arrogant way, because we were insecure, we didn't know it.
Speaker 1:I'm curious then during that time focus pro athlete moving forward Were you working? Was there any study? You know, what role did academics and employment outside of competing have in your life?
Speaker 2:So growing up, when I was, I turned pro my third year of high school, so my junior year of high school, I was working a full-time landscaping job and I was going to a technical high school to learn that trade. So I'd oscillate from academics for two weeks to work for two weeks, which meant I was making money, earning credit, and then I'd be riding every day after that on the weekends. When I was 17, I dropped out of high school. My parents signed me out Crazy that they supported me on that journey Super grateful they're. They're proud of that and I moved to North Carolina. So I was in the Northeast of America and I moved down to Greenville, north Carolina, where Dave Mir and the other pros all lived from 17 till the day I stopped riding.
Speaker 2:So about 14, 15 years. I worked a landscaping job once during that time, part-time in Greenville for like two months, and then six years later I worked at a bike shop part-time for like I don't know five, six months, seven months, something like that, and that was it. And then I started my coaching and speaking business today. So there was always this element of resourcefulness, which is something I am grateful for. That my upbringing, and then the challenges of BMX and growing up pretty much like we got bills met. Somehow I got a bike, even though I originally wanted a dirt bike for Christmas, but I got a BMX bike, but there was always this element of becoming resourceful to make it happen, whatever that was. So you know there is a lot of a lot of that going on. But that's something I am very focused on now is like how can I make this happen? What would it take? Because I didn't know what I was doing then and if I can harness that now, it's like I think that's the goal with everyone.
Speaker 1:To harness that resourcefulness and that. Oh, I need this. I've just got to figure out a way to make it happen that we did when we were younger. Is that what you mean by resourcefulness? And you know, as you were, as you were growing up and competing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just doing all the things. I mean, there was a time where I didn't have paying sponsors, so I was performing BMX shows to make extra cash. And then I started getting sponsors and then I was doing both of them. I was performing BMX shows to make extra cash in the off season and even during contest season. But I looked at it again perspective. I looked at it as a way to just dial in my tricks. So I was doing all my tricks on on those ramps and performing and it was just keeping me prepared for the contest. So there was one year where I was just full-on, just competing, no shows, no part-time job, anything like that, and that was, ironically, my last year competing and it was like my best year competing okay, what?
Speaker 1:why do you think? You say ironically but why was that? Why are you surprised by that?
Speaker 2:looking back, I shouldn't have been, because I was doing all the work. I was uh, I stopped partying, um, I was focused on my nutrition, focused on my sleep, I was focused on my resistance training, cardio training, and I was training on the ramps in a very mindful manner, which before it was mindful, but now it was a lot smarter. As a you know, I was in my late twenties at this time, so there was risk taken out to a degree. I was just. I was just focused, I was aware and I was not distracted with other things.
Speaker 1:What brought about that focus? That's a shift. It sounds like that's a shift in training, your typical training routine. Why then?
Speaker 2:uh, an acl reconstructive surgery. That was the result of two and a half years of riding, competing on a torn acl and meniscus and a bunch of other stuff. So, like when I got the mri report, I finally got it two and a half years later, which is how my wife and I met. She was the athletic trainer when I came back from a trip at the complex that I trained at and we became friends a year and a half and then started dating. But before that, when I first met her, she learned about my knee and I was like, yeah, I just been riding, it hurts sometimes, I tweak it Sometimes, I put a brace on sometimes, and our sport it's it's very unique that we don't cut like back and forth, it's just very straightforward. So I can get away with it, or I got away with it for some time. But it was because of her that she convinced me to get my knee fixed and at that same time I becoming more and more passionate about metabolic health.
Speaker 2:So at that time I was, you know, the lifestyle was changing but I wasn't like fully committed to resistance training and so going through the prehab because I was able to build up my my leg muscle and stability as much as I could to get prepared for surgery. That was crazy, like watching my quad shrink after surgery. But with going through that and then the recovery, and then how we became really tight and close friends, with six days a week, for like an hour or two a day, I was doing rehab at the facility and then just watching my friends ride because I had nothing else to do. I actually had to have a day where I was like told you can't do rehab today, you have to rest, because that's all I was doing.
Speaker 2:But it was all these things coming together that I was like man, like I need to get dialed in, but also two other things happen. So this was November. 2015 is when I went into surgery for my knee and moving into like January of 2016, my long-term bike sponsor let me go with no warning. And so that was like my biggest paycheck and I was like not able to do anything and I'm like, okay, so how am I going to pay my rent? How am I going to do all these things? Resourcefulness I had a nutrition sponsor that had been hooking me up with free product for some time and I was like, hey, why don't we work out a deal and then that's how that worked, um which I'm grateful, because I wasn't pushed to do that, wouldn't have thought of that tell me about that, because there's this.
Speaker 1:It does sound like resourcefulness is a is a recurring theme here. So when you say, make a deal in, in what way? What sort of deal were you making as an athlete then?
Speaker 2:so they were just giving me free product for the time four years and it was awesome. And then, when I was, I needed something. I like pushed. I was pushed there. I was like, oh, we're working together, why don't we do more? And so I worked it out to where I got a um, a large travel budget that year so it allowed me to compete and I could profit the earnings from the contest instead of paying myself back.
Speaker 2:And we did like a helmet wrap so we like competed against the energy drink sponsors. That was like my vision. I was like we we did like a helmet wrap, so we like competed against the energy drink sponsors. That was like my vision. I was like we need to do a helmet wrap because that's like the epitome of making it in action sports is you get an energy drink sponsor. I was like I don't want anything to do with that, so why don't we do this? It was the same company that does like the Red Bull helmets. They're like all right, so it not an energy drink company, so we can do this. And it was great and it actually started a movement of that brand actually working with other. It started with the announcer, who was a bmx rider of the contest series and then other riders now. So that was really cool. But yeah, it was just like we.
Speaker 2:There's so many things, there's so many opportunities in front of us, and this is something I've learned about the unconscious mind. Like what we focus on, expands, and if we are not aware of certain things, we're not going to see it. It's just how the mind works. So when we're pushed into a situation where we have to think about what can I do and we start looking around us, that's when we see the things that are right under our nose. And so that's what put me. I was like, oh, for four years, you guys have supported me with product and I've just done some, some social media stuff for you. Whatever you've asked, why don't we do more? So that way, it's, it's mutually beneficial and it's congruent still, but it's it's actually more in depth and more valuable. So that's that's how that came so good and so simple.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, they're supporting you. Why not do more? And, like you said earlier on, you were you, you're sponsor rich, but you're not actually cash rich, so it didn't help you move around or live in some respect. So I like the way you flipped that it probably doesn't pay the bills. No, it doesn't. You can have all the, I guess, vitamins and recovery activities as possible, but the rent needs to be paid somehow. So I like that resourcefulness. So when did you start to think all right, I'm done with bmx. Was it as dropped dead cold as you said? Okay, time to give the bike up and move on? Or was it a? Or to what extent was it more gradual?
Speaker 2:so this, the decision was like that, but the buildup. It actually goes back to one more element of your last question of like, where'd the focus come from? From my last year competing, so month after I'm told we're going to let you go. Um, I find out Dave Mira, who, for people that don't know, dave Mira is like the Tony Hawk of BMX, the Michael Jordan of you know. Uh, bmmx like that's who he was to our sport still is.
Speaker 2:I found out he had taken his life and then was later on diagnosed with cte. So the first action sports athlete diagnosed with cte at least that we know of, the crazy thing is not just the whole acceptance and denial of that and, like your hero, killed himself, but it was. I was with him two or three days prior, having lunch with him. I had his house with his family and a mutual friend, scott wurch, another bmx legend. I looked up to growing up and it was just one of these earth-shattering moments and I just it was the first time as an adult someone I cared about had died and I had lost this person. And with Dave it was interesting because he wasn't family but he became a really good friend. But, more importantly, he was the reason why I was living my life the way I wanted to, because of all the work that he did, all the sacrifice, all the dedication to the path he created for my generation, even to be able to go to Greenville and train his warehouse, like just all those things. And so it was the first time I had felt like this heaviness that we call depression and it really messed with me. And then there was a you know, a lot of different things were coming out and interviews, old footage and quotes of his and all these things. And then there was an interview I saw where he was just like winning X games year after year, all the different events, and they're like Dave, like how do you, how do you do it, Make it look so easy? And just his anyone that knows Dave's personality is like oh man, like you do the homework, the test is easy. And I was like that just clicked with me and I was like I need to get serious this year. And I was driven by, you know, the ACL surgery. I was driven by my sponsor dropping me and I was like I'm going to prove to them. And then, you know, days passing and I was like just inspired, and that's what put me in that focus to do all the work that resulted in, who knew, a great result. But then, you know, getting back into the normal day things, two years later, my younger brother killed himself and that was the most painful thing I've gone through. That. I didn't put myself through. That really messed me up.
Speaker 2:And then for a year after that so I was in June of 2018, it was like almost two weeks after he had turned 26. That was one of those things where it was like I finally learned about what survivor's guilt was, and I had this, this heavy pressure to continue riding my bike. I mentioned earlier that that gap this was this was evident. But then, when my brother died and then had David died before that, I was like I have to ride because they're not able to. They're not even alive. I'm able to and with all that I've gone through, with the multiple brain tumors, which we haven't really talked about, on top of the injuries, on top of flatlining in 2011 at a contest, my heart stopped for like 45 seconds. I hit my head so hard. Like all of these things, I'm still here and I put this guilt, this pressure of guilt on me to keep riding, even though I wasn't fulfilled and I was passionate about this other thing that had more impact. So it was just another year after that where I was learning what I said earlier, like I want to do this. This is my calling. This is more meaningful, this is me contributing, this is me taking everything I've been through and actually utilizing for something than just riding my bike. And so it was just working through all that.
Speaker 2:And then, january 2020, um, I had a conversation with a friend former NFL wide receiver. He lost his job, essentially for getting to be not as good anymore at his older age. He was like Josh, you have an opportunity here to do your own thing on your own terms. And when we were talking, I asked him I was like his name is Jimmy Ferris. I was like Jimmy, when's the last time you played football like a pickup game, flag football, something, not just throwing the ball? He's like not, since I left the league. The way he simply answered that it clicked for me and I was like there it is. I keep going to the other side of the fence and wondering why I'm not going further this way. And it was after that conversation. I went to visit my dad for his birthday and then stopped riding my bike.
Speaker 2:I was depressed for like a year and a half. I didn't know what I was doing, I was questioning everything because I didn't get the hits the emotional hits of the adrenaline and cortisol I realized I was addicted to growing up in a traumatic upbringing and being in the survival state and then getting into BMX was just like a different transition to get those chemicals in my brain, those free drugs that my body was addicted to. So I was depressed, and then it wasn't, until my wife was like it sounds like you're depressed. I was like no, I just, I just don't feel good, I have no interest in doing anything Like. I just don't enjoy myself. I'm not depressed, though. Feel good, I have no interest in doing anything Like, I just don't enjoy myself. I'm not depressed, though.
Speaker 2:She was like that's depression and I was like oh, and she was like Josh, she laid it out really simply and it's a chapter, it's the title of a chapter of the book I'm working on.
Speaker 2:She was like you're breaking up with your first love, that's, that's what's going on. And I was like, oh, she's like the first thing you loved beyond your immediate family. It's been with you for this much time. It's done this, it's saved you, like all these things that are a part of your life. Now you're letting that, that part of you go, and it was this idea of this old self had to die. The biological, physiological, physiological, psychological, mental, emotional all these elements of me had to die to be able to move on. And so when I started to accept that and then work through all that, I realized back to earlier I said my identity was wrapped up in that thing I did, and working with the coach helped me realize the characteristics of who I am, allowed me to do that thing at a level that's extraordinary, that other people took admiration from and and admired, and it wasn't that thing that defined me. I defined that thing that I did at the level I did, and I could just put that somewhere more meaningful in my mind getting to that point.
Speaker 1:You know that, that year and a half of everything but calling it depression, having it called out by you, by your wife, which is which is great, and that's a as much a self-awareness thing on awareness thing. As soon as you're aware of it, suddenly you can start to act upon it, treat or at least manage the behaviors with it. As you realize that, what did you do then? What did you? What changed once you started to manage or deal with, overcome the depression?
Speaker 2:I kept doing all the same things that I was working on. That had nothing to do with bmx, I was just my stubbornness. I've learned is a is a beautiful trait when you can use in the right way, but it was what you mentioned just becoming more aware and every time I caught myself I would then go and reevaluate and audit where my mind was at and it was. It was really. The thing that's helped me is what I call virtual mentors. It's you know me having like posters of Dave Muir on my wall, me watching videos of people riding, when I was younger. It was, it was just gaining inspiration from people doing the thing and I was listening to. I was just like studying people and I was younger. It was just gaining inspiration from people doing the thing and I was listening to. I was just like studying people and I was listening to an interview with Jim Carrey talking about his depression and he was saying he's like.
Speaker 2:What I realized was like I just needed deep rest from the avatar that I was trying to play for so long. I wasn't myself anymore. I was disconnected. So, to simply put it, for sake of time, I just did a lot of the inner work on my own, with a coach, with friends, with my wife, and just trying to work through all the you know the past self trying to come up. And why was I feeling stressed when I had nothing to do? And that was just like all these old coping mechanisms and I was just working through that and it's just. You know, people refer to it as as the work. That was what I do is all the resistance I felt.
Speaker 1:I just kept having to move through it and go towards it to let it go embracing, be it fear, be it resistance, whatever it might be, but just moving towards it. That's that's. I mean. You know that that in itself takes bravery. Um one. Again, I keep saying thank you for sharing. It is absolutely wonderful to hear you be so open with. You know the experiences that you've gone through. So I appreciate you doing that because, as you know, it certainly helps others to hear that as well, to hear it, to see it. So thank you. I'm interested, then, in getting on with things. So you'd stopped competing. The sponsorships had dried up, the prize money had dried up. How did you intend to make? What thought process did you go through around how I'm going to make a living now?
Speaker 2:I was just doing. The thing that I was started doing when I was still riding was coaching and speaking, and that's, yeah, how I paid my bills and it was just a new career path. Two years of that, though, I was still riding, but without a paycheck, no sponsors, no contest, no shows. I just was doing it because I didn't know what else to do with myself. But yeah, no, that's what I was saying earlier. It's just those last two years it just evolved into probably the last year where I was just doing it to do it, and I was just trying to feel better, but I was feeling more and more unfulfilled. And then that's when that conversation, when Jimmy, happened and I was like, oh, this makes sense.
Speaker 2:So a lot of it, too, was like realizing the risk and what Dave had told me when he retired, and I couldn't fathom at the time. But he was like, man, it's just not worth the risk anymore. Like I just I'm just not in it. And if you're not in it with what we were doing, I mean any sport really. But like, especially when you're flinging yourself on a bike 20, 15, 20 feet in the air, uh, like, if you're not in it, like the risk is so high? It's. There's so much that can be taken from you, and that's, I think, a better way of answering your question earlier, like, how did I move forward?
Speaker 2:It was just understanding who I am, my values, my priorities and the value of doing x, y or z, and if it had any added value to the things that I cared about my life, and then recognizing like, oh, like this is just me trying to feel safe. So for me, what helps is learning a lot of like the mechanics of neuroscience and emotions and like how all that stuff works. So for me, if I can learn these mechanisms, then I can see it in my mind and then I can apply it outside of like action, like journaling or talking with someone or doing something and then creating an awareness to what comes up. And then, working on regulating my self-nervous system, I'm like, okay, what's going on? What are these emotions signaling to me? What information is to be extracted? Now, what do I need to do? That's congruent? And that's the most important piece that I kept coming back and asking myself is is this action congruent or aligned with the outcome I'm working towards, or is it me just trying to stay safe in the familiar, known past?
Speaker 1:What are you congruent with? What are the outcomes that you're seeking? Because I know you are a I think how do you write it? Neuroscientist, metabolic nerd, is sort of. You know you learning these things at the moment. Talk to me a bit about what your days are like today. Who? Who are you helping? Who are you working with Cause? I know you've done the work on you and now it's put um, you know sharing that with others. Just talk to me a bit about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my days. They look similar but they're just different every day. Um, I train in the gym for mornings a week and resistance training. Um, my wife and I love our Sunday coffee to go and ritual of hiking and mixing golf. Throughout the weeks work with clients one-on-one. I have a client that's a company that I go in to the office and the team can schedule sessions with me or do it virtually if they're remote, and then beyond that it's just me working on the business. I'm my only team member. So I do the marketing, I do the coaching, I do the sales, I do the content stuff, I do the behind the scenes. So it's just a mix of all those things.
Speaker 2:Communications, podcasts I've been inspired to start my podcast again with my wife called the gray matters podcast.
Speaker 2:They'll play on words with gray matter of the brain and how important it is.
Speaker 2:But then context of life, not everything's as black or white, it's just this larger gray area. So, yeah, I just, it's just a lot of things that at the end of the day it's focused on me becoming my best self mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually. So that way, the things that mean the most to me my wife, my other relationships, friends and family, and then my work involving my clients and all the things I'm putting out there. If I'm at my best, I have the highest probability of reaching the people that need to hear the information I want to share, whether it be about mindset, it'd be about, you know, metabolic health, it'd be about perspective, whatever. So that's what my days are focused on is taking care of myself, so that way, the things that mean the most can have my best self, because otherwise they're just getting a half ass version of me, and that's not acceptable to me. My standards are too high for myself and how I expect myself to show up and what I want out of the world, or for the world yeah, love that, josh.
Speaker 1:Last couple of questions. And let you get to the airport, which should be cool. Um, in terms of you know young athlete, bmx, that comes up to probably competing. I guess you know this is all about that career transition helping to set yourself up better for that transition, you know, finding your second wind in life based on your experience. What guidance would you give to them?
Speaker 2:So that's a bit of a broad question, and I would first start with questions. This is the coaching side of me. Um, I would want to know what it is they're trying to get out of their, their path. What is it they're trying to reach? What is the outcome they're going for? And then I would want to dive in a little bit deeper of asking them why? Why does that important to you? For what purpose? It could be just complete joy Could be.
Speaker 2:If it is something similar to mine, some type of escape or to prove people wrong. Cool, we can work with that. But the main point here is to understanding what the fuel is, because if it's something that's outside of you that's driving you, that's what motivation is, that's going to come and go and that's not what's going to lead to sustainability. If it's an intrinsic drive, then that's what is what we want to focus on. So I really just want to get clear with where they're going and why that's important to them and what they're willing to do about it. More importantly, because from there we can create a roadmap and that's what I love doing with anyone, whether it's a BMX athlete or a CEO just really fill in the gaps of where you are, where you want to go, what's holding you back?
Speaker 2:And for me, I know every human being has blind spots. That's why therapists have therapists. That's why one of my clients psychologist, was like no, josh, I need help too. Like cause, I was like severe imposter syndrome working with a clinical psychologist, um. But when they put it that way I was like oh yeah, you have have a brain, you're human, you, you have blind spots. So, um, the advice like if I were to give advice, it would just be to do your best to audit the stories you have going on your mind and ask yourself is this mine or is this coming from someone else? And do I want to accept this to be who I believe I am?
Speaker 1:I think that's great. I like that. I like it Well if I like both of the pieces one starting with the question, so asking the questions to understand if they're on the path they want to be on. But then you, I think you topped it with asking them about the story Is it theirs or somebody else's? And that probably is a way to unpack their, their habit of thinking and behaving and moving forward. I think is such a powerful way. So, josh, thanks for definitely thanks for sharing that. And, look, I've, I've super enjoyed, really enjoyed this conversation. People are going to be listening, they're going to want to be probably following you and finding you a bit more. I know you mentioned, you know, bring back gray matter, uh, is what the crowd's shouting, but what are gonna be some of the great ways people can find you and follow you?
Speaker 2:so the best one-stop shop's my website, joshperrybmxcom, but I'm most active on linkedin and instagram. I post to all the platforms. I've been kind of trying to get more consistent with tiktok, just understanding that whole thing. Um, but that seems fun, but it's good. It's interesting because I feel like I get more engagement with like not even a fraction of the following of my other platforms. But, um, so that's it's a whole mental thing to work through. It's not really about the, the analytics, it's more about the impact. Um, so it's like a, it's like a good test for me to work on the work.
Speaker 2:But yeah, all my socials are just Josh Perry BMX. That's a whole long story of starting with a domain name, someone holding the domain for a couple thousand dollars for joshperrycom, and I was like that's so ridiculous. And then Josh Perry's instagram has been inactive since 2013. Like I can't get instagram or the person to respond. So I was like josh perry bmx. I was trying to run from it, but I'll just embrace it and I'll leverage it to be a part of my journey yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And look, I think that embracing it is such a good thing, because embracing it because it is a big part of you right, and it is. It is something that one of the ways in which you've made a dent on the world and I think what I actually think is nice about the fact you have almost forced to maintain that bit of bmx is very frequent. As athletes, we try and run completely, run away. No, I am a completely different person and it's like no, no, no. We spend so much time recognizing our past, celebrating that journey, that there's that one piece. Don't get rid of it, embrace it. It's good, it's still part of your name.
Speaker 2:I like that I tried to run from it and the universe said no, and so then I was like forced to change and evolve and that's accepting it, and it's all about the relationship. I think that goes back to your question earlier. Like with vice, it's just like understanding the relationship we have with things, with ourselves, with people, with places, with experiences, and I had an unhealthy relationship with BMX, especially after my name, and so I just had to reevaluate and audit the relationship and see all the ways that it has served me and how it could provide value to me and my family. And that's the challenge. A lot of us don't want to do that because it's uncomfortable, but when we do that, it gets us to the very things we're looking for.
Speaker 2:Oh, I want to end with that. I keep hearing this quote on all different platforms the last two weeks. The magic we seek is in the work we avoid, and if you break that down, we can all apply that to any aspect of our lives, and it's always without fail. When we work through something we've been resisting, it's like, oh, here are the results I was looking for the whole time.
Speaker 1:So true, josh, let's end it on that. I want to keep going. We're going to have to catch up again, but I'm going to say, josh, thanks so much for your time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's do another one. I'll get you on the Great Matters podcast sometime.
Speaker 1:Thanks a lot, josh, and we will chat again soon.
Speaker 2:Sounds good. Ryan, I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy Until next time.
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