Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves
Former professional footballer Ryan Gonsalves dives deep into the unique challenges and triumphs of transitioning from elite sports to fulfilling careers. Through candid conversations with athletes, the Career Clarity Podcast explores their inspiring journeys, uncovering lessons on identity, resilience, and reinvention. Whether you're an athlete or simply seeking inspiration for your next chapter, this podcast will empower you to unleash your second wind.
Ryan Gonsalves transitioned from professional football with Huddersfield Town in the English Footbaal League, to a career in financial services by leveraging his adaptability, transferable skills, and willingness to embrace new opportunities.
While playing semi-professional football, he pursued education and began working at GE Money Capital Bank, where he gained global experience and developed expertise in Lean Six Sigma and process improvement. His sports background often helped him stand out during interviews, creating memorable connections with hiring managers.
Later, Ryan joined HSBC in Hong Kong, where he worked for nearly a decade in consumer banking, focusing on global projects such as researching homeownership behaviors. His ability to understand consumer insights and behavior became a cornerstone of his success in the financial sector. After over 20 years in banking (including back in Australia at AMP, Westpac, COmmenwealth Bank and NSW Treasury, Ryan transitioned into career coaching, inspired by helping fellow athletes navigate their post-sports careers.
Ready to take the next step? Connect with Ryan at letschat@2ndwind.io.
Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves
140: Kuhoo Garg: Blinded By Sporting Excellence - From World #34 to Indian Police Service
When Kuhoo Garg tore her ACL during her comeback tournament after COVID, little did she know this injury would redirect her life's purpose. As a former world #34 badminton player representing India, Kuhoo had dedicated everything to her sport—sacrificing normal college experiences, social connections, and career exploration in pursuit of Olympic dreams.
The forced pause from competition created space for a profound realization. Despite reaching elite levels in her sport, Kuhoo began questioning whether the singular focus had been worth it. "I had a lot of resentment towards the sport," she confesses. "I was blinded by it and gave up on all other opportunities." With no work experience, no interview skills, and limited knowledge of her economics degree's applications, she found herself at a crossroads familiar to many athletes—what now?
Rather than viewing her athletic background as a liability, Kuhoo recognized the transferable skills it had cultivated. The discipline, competitive drive, and resilience that took her to international badminton courts became her foundation for tackling one of the world's most competitive examinations—the Indian Civil Services exam, which accepts just 1,000 candidates from over 1.3 million applicants annually.
What makes Kuhoo's transition story particularly powerful is how she discovered a deeper purpose beyond personal achievement. While playing badminton offered individual accolades, she yearned for broader impact. Now training as an Indian Police Service officer, Kuhoo can provide justice to victims, implement community sport initiatives, and create systemic change—combining her athletic background with public service in ways she never imagined possible.
For athletes contemplating their own transitions, Kuhoo offers wisdom from both sides: "Remember how much of a privilege it is to pursue what you love professionally. Stay humble and recognize the world is huge with endless opportunities." Her journey demonstrates that athletic careers, while temporary, develop invaluable skills that transfer to countless other fields. The key is finding the courage to reinvent yourself when the moment demands it.
Ready to explore your own second act after sport? Connect with Ryan Gonsalves and the 2NDWind Academy to discover how your athletic experience can become your professional advantage here: www.2ndwind.io
I had a lot of resentment towards the sport. Actually, I was feeling that why was I so blinded by it that I gave up on all the opportunities? Because now, if I think about what I want to do next, I do not have any work experience, I never sat for my college placements, I do not even know what economists do. So I was having this resentment that why was I so blinded by it that I never even bothered to explore all of this? I, I gave up on, you know, science, just to pursue this without realizing the option, uh, options I'm cutting down for myself. So initially it was, I think, all of that. I did sit down with a few people. I, we actually uh, we sat down and we thought very realistically at this point, with my background what all options do I have now? What can I do now?
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people after all. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Kuhu, welcome to the Second Wind Academy podcast. Thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 1:So I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me, and I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, that is lovely to hear. I'm going to be intrigued at the end of the show if this has lived up to your expectations, if you are looking forward to it. Hopefully by the end we will have had a good time. So look, I too am definitely thrilled to have you join me today. Quite an interesting background, I certainly think, or at least the path that you've certainly started to take now as well. So I look forward to delving into that a little bit more. So let's begin at the top right. Let's talk about, really for those watching and listening, who you are and in today. You know today what sort of your current profession and what keeps you moving.
Speaker 1:So hi, I'm Kuhu Garg. I was formerly playing badminton for the Indian national team from 2013 to 2020. It was almost a seven eight year stint with the national team. From 2013 to 2020. It was almost a seven eight year stint with the national team and during that time I was the world number 34 in mixed doubles and also India number one, and I played at multiple world championships Asian championships, the South Asian games and I have like a lot of medals at the national championships and multiple all India tournaments as well. But currently, now I have I had to make a switch in my career because of certain circumstances that came up, and now I am. I gave the Indian civil services exam and now I'm in the Indian police services, which is a very prestigious thing back in India. It's one of the most difficult exams we have in India and to get into the Indian police services it's a very, very proud thing for me.
Speaker 2:And from my experience as well, or from my knowledge, that is something to be very proud of, as is all of the sporting accolades, achievements that you've had a long way too, so clearly that that already sounds like you are someone who likes to achieve and certainly likes to perform at your best yeah, I think that's a very nice way to put it.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's just been my conditioning since I was younger that I'm always trying to really you know achieve things.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, and you know I suppose that is a again an interesting thing you talk about. From when you were young do you think, as you were growing up, you had this sense of you know? I suppose that is again an interesting thing you talk about. From when you were young, do you think, as you were growing up, you had this sense of you know, perhaps from family, or was it something in yourself that was, yeah, I want to achieve something.
Speaker 1:I think it was both ways a little bit. My family was always supportive, as in they had from education. They always had some bare minimum expectation that you know you should be at least doing this and as long as you're able to manage it, you go ahead and do whatever you want. And they gave me this supportive environment where they exposed me to a lot of different things. So in sports also, it would be maybe swimming, tennis, badminton, horse riding and even like other things, so maybe art and dance and all these things. They gave me that exposure and gave me the choice that you know you can do whatever you want.
Speaker 1:But I think at the end of the day, it was somewhere my personality and some of the way I look at things that I always gave my 100%, no matter what I was doing. So I wanted to excel and I wanted to win. And seeing that discipline which you know I had it in me. My parents never had to tell me that. You know you got to wake up at 6am and go for the training because if you want to play you need to be disciplined. So they saw me doing all of this that you know. My family was still asleep and I would go and train and come back. By the time they have woken up I am already back from training. So seeing all of this self-discipline and the dedication, then they encouraged me even more. Okay, fine, we'll support you if you want to play. So I think somewhere that was something inbuilt.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and it definitely is. It definitely sounds like that and hearing you now, it actually feels like you're going back quite passionate about that. You know that part of your life and perhaps some of the values that came through with it as well. You know that part of your life and perhaps some of the values that came through with it as well.
Speaker 1:Were you a very sporty family, yeah, so yeah, I was exactly getting to that. I think it was seeing my parents around me. So my dad was also in the Indian police services, actually, so in the police overall, the environment is very hectic. It is always on the go, so I have always seen both my parents basically manage a lot of things. My mother is also working, so you know they would go go outdoors in the morning and do something, and my dad used to play tennis, badminton and horse riding everything. Growing up he was doing all of these things. My mother was also doing them, so it was a way of us accompanying them and spending time with them that you know we would accompany them to the court and just pick up the racket and start doing something, but also this thing of always seeing them on the go, that they were not wasting any time. As soon as he's back from the office, he would go out to the court and do something there, and so I think those are some of the things which got ingrained.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually I can resonate with that. I think my household is a bit like that with my boys and with my wife as well. We're all very active um get back in from work or school and there's always something else that's that's taken us out. It's a really fun environment to grow up in, you know, I think yeah, yeah, I 100% agree.
Speaker 1:It used to be like you know, even for us, sports was basically that evening from four to six or seven pm. You should not be sitting inside watching television, you should be outdoors, you should be doing something. So you know, my parents were very much like just be doing something. You want to do painting, you want to do dance and learn classical music, so just be out there, out there and do something and don't be like stuck to the tv no, that that's right.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, with all that, you kind of mentioned it, but academically was there, yeah, this push for sports and being out and being active. Did you have a similar sense, as you're growing up, of academic excellence was something that was part of you as well?
Speaker 1:like I said that you know there was a basic expectation at my house, which was probably higher than most of the other households around us, that you know you are expected to score at least this certain minimum level and those the grades should not go down below that because at the end of the day I think growing up it was a like the parents, the household, the mindset was very much that it is education which is going to get you anywhere in life.
Speaker 1:So that is something you cannot compromise on because overall, if you look at it in India or maybe even elsewhere, the career through sports, the opportunities, are very less and also they are not as secure as probably an education can get you. So you know, even at the time when we made the decision that I want to go all into sports and I want to give it my 100% focus more there, it was still that education of basic minimum has to be maintained, because that is my fallback At one point I will have to stop playing, whether at 25 or 30 or 35. And I don't want to go on continue doing just a job which most sports people are getting in India, because that's not going to be a very high level of a productive job, which I would want to do for the next 25-30 years. So it was always a thing that education has to be there. That is something we can't compromise on.
Speaker 2:When did sport become the focus then? When was that?
Speaker 1:hey, I've got some talent and maybe we can take this beyond just recreation I think 11 standard for me uh, around 2013, I would be around 15 years old and, uh, that year was a major year where things transformed because, uh, I got selected into the under 19 uh doubles national camp when I was 13 years old uh, 15 years old, sorry. So, first getting into the camp, then getting into the under 19 Asian badminton, like the Indian team, going for the Asian badminton championships again at the age of 15, and then at the national championships of that year the senior national championships we ended up winning a bronze medal. So we were the youngest medalists at the senior national championship that year as well. So that year was, I think, a year my parents also realized when I went for the camp and then I had to also move out of my hometown, because it was now. If you want to play further, you need to shift to Hyderabad, where Gopichand Academy was in India. That is the national center, and if you want to play badminton, at the end you're left with only two options only. There are only two good academies and you have to go to either of them if you want to play at the higher level.
Speaker 1:So you know this decision was made that if you want to play further. And if you you know now you're in the team, then you should move to Hyderabad. And if I was moving to Hyderabad, so if I was going to stay there the entire year, like initially, I had opted for science stream in my 11th and 12th, but then my father and we sat down and we made this decision that you know you cannot do science without attending the classes. You need to attend the practicals, and you know so. Without that it won't be possible. So maybe opt for a lighter subject of for humanities, something you are interested in and which you will be able to manage even if you're not attending the classes daily. And let's focus on badminton for a while. So that is when, I think this exact moment, the decision was made and so when you said 11, that was 11.
Speaker 2:Standard, as in, is that you aged it yeah, 11 standard for us is high school.
Speaker 1:The last two years of high school, 11th and 12th, are the last two years okay, so in 18 years old um no, I was 15 years old right.
Speaker 2:Okay, I get it. So it was around that time thinking about the last couple of years of high school, um, being 16, thinking, okay, now we've got to really make a choice. Sport was killing it for you. But then I mean, it's interesting. You're talking about having to select subjects where being physically present wasn't an advantage, I suppose, or you know to, to actually perform the test itself, and I mean that that in itself explains a good way of, uh of of how you then were able to make your selections again like.
Speaker 1:The subjects which I picked finally were basically economics and maths. So and the thought process at that time was that economics is still a technical subject and maths is still a technical subject. So even if I'm not going all into science and not taking physics and chemistry, I'm still as technical as possible and this would give me the maximum opportunities later on. So if I go on and do like, I finally did a bachelor's of arts honors in economics, and the idea was that if I go on and do like I finally did a bachelor's of arts honors in economics, and the idea was that if I go on to do a BA honors in economics, it would give me a lot of opportunities later and which would still like I would be cutting down on my least options by going for this. So I took economics, just as I thought it would be the second best option if I'm not opting for science. But luckily for me, I ended up really falling in love with the subject.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed studying it and I really do love the subject now yes, yeah, I mean that's great, I suppose I'm I'm curious because during that time finishing you know high school, studying, moving then towards university, this is also whilst your career is taking off, right yeah what was the most challenging point for you during, during those moments?
Speaker 1:uh. So unfortunately in india our education system and the university system is such that it does not really support a full-time playing career along with attending university. So again, my university was in Delhi and my headquarters for badminton was in Hyderabad. I was in the national camp by now, so I was staying in Hyderabad almost the entire year, luckily for my university. The only exemption they gave me was that even without any attendance, I could give the exam at the end of the day. So normally, if the university has a certain minimum, 66% attendance is required for you to, you know, actually clear the exams For me. Even with 0% attendance, I was allowed to go and write the exam. That was the only exemption I got.
Speaker 1:But other than that, I had to really put in a lot of effort in Hyderabad. I had to find tutors somehow manage, because economics was no easy subject. At the end of the day there's a lot of maths, a lot of stats and going into it. So I had to really look for these tutors myself. And you know, in the normal schedule of an athlete I think it would be six to seven hours of training. The rest of the time they would be resting and, you know, eating, hydrating, all of that, but for me I had to spend some two, three hours out of that. But for me I had to spend some two, three hours out of that to study as well. So I had to manage that and that was a really tough part.
Speaker 1:And again, traveling back to Delhi every time the exams are there. The teachers did not help me out with the internals either. We have internal assessments, so some 30% of our grade used to be internal assessments and the teachers would not help me out with them. So I practically had a zero out of 30 percent in those internal assessments and I had to score my like. I had to basically score out of the remaining 70 percent, which was a task in itself because it's a tough subject, and then I have to score out of 70 percent to get a passing grade. So the entire college experience for me was very hectic, very hectic. I had to manage my exams, hyderabad attendance and internals.
Speaker 2:It was very tiring and so during this time, I mean I'm curious, then you were, you had your vision for you as a badminton player, which I'll come to yeah. I'm interested, though. Did you know why you were doing the degree? Why were you doing all this study, what? What were you hoping to achieve at the end of all the study?
Speaker 1:I'll be very honest. I did not know why I was doing it. I was doing it for the sake of doing a degree, because economics honors was a really good option and that was the only reason for me to do it. I did not even know what jobs people do after economics, what sort of fields people go into, what sort of placements my classmates sat for. I had no clue about any of it.
Speaker 1:I was doing it because my parents told me that you know, if you have gotten into India's best college? You know, I got into India's best university, delhi University, and the best college in that. So they told me if you've gotten into that, you're not going to leave it for badminton. You stay in Hyderabad, you play, you do whatever you want, but you have to at least pass your exams and get a degree. You cannot be not a graduate, right? So it was that sort of a thing and I was doing it just because, as long as I did that, I got to play. As long as I was passing college, I got to play. So that is the only reason I was doing it, and and all I wanted to do was to play. I had never thought what I would do after it? What? After I finished college? What is next? I had not even thought about all of it. All I wanted to do was to play.
Speaker 2:It is amazing that that struggle, that challenge, it's great. On one side you achieve this wonderful academic record by getting to Delhi University, but at the same time you're in the national team and well, you've got, I guess, dreams, you've got aspirations as a player. So, going through the badminton side, what did you hope to achieve?
Speaker 1:So at this time, somewhere around 2018, actually like 2015, I started my college 2015-16. I was still in the junior team playing the world champions, junior world championship, junior nation championship. And in 2016, actually at the junior world championship, we played the quarterfinals. We lost out on the medal by a point, and by, you know, single point. So that was a very close call, because one point and you win a medal at the world championship. It's a really big deal.
Speaker 1:And the next year again now getting back into the circuit, in the senior circuit, this time with a new partner. So you start out from scratch because you have to build a rank, you have to play almost 14-15 tournaments in a year. So there was a lot of traveling happening. And in 2018 we actually got to the world rank of 34 in mixed doubles, of 72 in women doubles. We qualified for the world championships, the asian championships in 2018 and 2019. Again we qualified for them. 2019 I also qualified for the south asian games.
Speaker 1:So naturally, for me, the next was, you know, uh, 2020. Olympics was not that far off, if you think about it, because in 2018 we were 34. We needed to get into the top 20 to qualify for the olympics, which was in 2020, but then the covid break and then you know, the 22 commonwealth haitian games of 2022, again the 2024 olympics, like all of these things were all I could think about the entire time that somehow I have to get there, somehow I have to make it to the team, make it to the world top 20 and qualify for these big events now yes, and so I'm wondering then obviously you needed your parents uh blessing to keep playing, so you had to do the studies uh to keep you motivated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, is that it?
Speaker 1:my parents were. They were supportive of me the entire time. They said you, you should go all out, you should play. But I think somewhere they also knew if anyone is there who can manage both the things, it's me. So yes, there was a little bit of pressure, but I think it's not that it was impossible and if anyone really wants to do it, they will be able to find all the time. I obviously had to cut down and sacrifice on everything else other than education and sports for those few years, but I think it's all worth it in the end of the day, yeah.
Speaker 2:So tell me, at the time, did it feel like a sacrifice?
Speaker 1:The sports part. Not at all, uh, because I was really loving doing all of it and I like every moment I would spend on the court, every extra uh minute I would play, you know, a lot of extra practice after sessions. It never felt like a sacrifice because it's what I really really wanted to do. Sometimes, I think at the time when I made the switch actually, uh, it was a moment of crisis for me when I had to make the switch and in those moments when I look back everything it felt like a huge sacrifice. It felt like a lot of things I missed out on because I was completely blinded by my sporting ambitions. So only in hindsight I felt that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but at the time it didn't feel like you were sacrificing anything. You were giving your best in sport, you were giving your best at university as well and yeah, um, I guess in some respects you, yeah, how aware were you of what you were missing out on at from not being present at delhi, delhi university?
Speaker 1:uh, very, there were very few instances when I felt that way that I was missing out on the university life. Very few instances, like you know some specific events we would have have in the college, like I missed my valedictory in college. So I think it is these moments that made you think about it a little. But again, it was not not very, not a very strong feeling, because I was so engrossed in the sporting world and that was all there was on my mind. Even you know other events which happened even when I was in Hyderabad. There were a few of my friends who had their colleges in Hyderabad, but I could never find the time to actually stay in touch with them or, you know, go for their events or anything of that sort, because I was so engrossed in this world. And it was only in hindsight, when I was actually looking back, that I realized that there were missed opportunities. There was other things there. There are other things to life as well, other than sports don't say that, no, I'm joking.
Speaker 2:Of course it is. It's true, that's exactly what we're here to talk about um. So then, yeah clearly this, this covid break, had an impact. Can you just talk to me a little bit about what the impact was? What was going on for you at that time?
Speaker 1:uh. So initially, 2020 march is when I came back home, and I was home actually on a different uh for a different. We had like a state camp sort of a thing, so I had to come back home for that and in the midst of that, the COVID lockdown happened. So I ended up staying back and initially, honestly, when I just came back home, the first couple of months, and the thoughts were that what was I doing in Hyderabad? Because it was such a toxic environment. It was a highly competitive environment and you know, there's a lot of politics also in sports. And instead of I, when I came home, the first thing that I realized was that, instead of focusing on sport and how to improve as an athlete, a lot of my time would go into figuring out the politics and how to manage things there, and there was so much cutthroat competition that there was a lot of toxicity amongst the players. So somehow I just had this really strong feeling that, even if I want to play, I do not want to go back in that environment because that is not who I am as a person. And, yes, sports has, it has its place, but do I really wanted to change who I am as a person.
Speaker 1:So those were some of the things that happened initially and then, as the time continued, you know, I had some health issues, some health issues that happened down the line, because of which I had a lot of weakness and a lot of things I was struggling with as, in terms of health, which eventually, like it was building up for almost seven, eight months and it ended up like in the first tournament back from COVID, we had the national team selection because for one and a half years we had had no tournament, so they had no baseline, so they wanted to have a selection tournament and I went there, even when I was not well, I was not fit, but I went there because I thought this is the main selection tournament and I went there and I ended up twisting my knee which ended in a ligament tear of my ACL, so now that required a surgery.
Speaker 1:So overall, this COVID break, which was initially a one and a half year break, it got prolonged into a longer break and you know all of these things. It was a very stressful time. I had been struggling with, I told you, health issues for the past six, seven months and then the ACL injury. So all of this kind of sent me in the zone where I was really forced to take a step back and really forced to think what am I doing in life and what do I really want to do in life and at this moment, with everything that I have done, what are the options that I have at this point? So that is when I think all this introspection really started yeah, so so what did?
Speaker 2:what does a step back look like?
Speaker 1:uh, step back really looked like uh, you know, instead of for me it was at least at that moment instead of planning how I'm going to really get back as soon as possible, that you know my partner is here, this is how I'm going to train. This is the next tournament I'm going to play my mind was constantly occupied with these things and where I need to train the coach because, like I said, I did not want to go back to Hyderabad. So under which coach am I training? My physical training, sorting out my partnerships Because I had split from my older partners, stepping into a new partnership, the entire tournament schedule. So just stopping all of that for a minute, because now the reality hit me that I'm not playing for at least two years and it is very much possible that I never get back to playing, because the health issues that I'm talking about at one moment they were pretty severe. They were very severe. I was bedridden for six weeks. I could not even get out on my own. I needed like two to three people to help me even get out of the bed. So you know, when you're at that moment, that is when you really think that so what? What do I really want to do in life in the long term, because badminton, I don't think I'm. I'm not playing badminton right now and you also start building this perspective when you're watching the sport from outside.
Speaker 1:You know, I think what COVID also helped me with was I realized that sport is a luxury. So at the end of the day, when everything went into a lockdown, sports was the last thing to resume. So it kind of made me really realize that sports is not at all an essential, it is not necessary, it's a luxury. And to be able to play sport as a career, I was really privileged to do that Because there is so much going on.
Speaker 1:Like my father, like I told you, he was into the police services and he was having to go to the office every single day, even in that environment when people were not stepping out. So you know, I realized that there are a lot more essential things, a lot of important things. People are not able to make ends meet, people are dying and, as an athlete, all I'm able to still think about is that I'm missing training, my tournaments are not happening, I'm not getting my rest, like that is all I can think about. So that is what stepping back for me was that I had I changed my perspective and saw things from a like. I think at that moment maybe it went a little extreme as well because, like I told you of my health issues, but yeah, I think that is what it was but it's.
Speaker 2:It's interesting that you know. I asked you what a step back was and you described that as taking them really a completely different perspective, an external perspective yeah you the sport and what it sounds like is through that, through that process, you affect you effectively. I guess you minimize the importance in your mind of what sport had, given everything else that was going on in the world and yeah so yeah, given that new perspective, what did you do?
Speaker 1:Initially, like I said, I had a lot of resentment towards the sport. Actually, actually, I was feeling that why was I so blinded by it that I gave up on all the opportunities? Because now, if I think about what I want to do next, I do not have any work experience, I never sat for my college placements, I do not even know what economists do. So I was having this resentment that why was I so blinded by it that I never even bothered to explore all of this? I, I gave up on, you know, science, just to pursue this without realizing the option, uh, options, I'm cutting down for myself. So initially it was, I think, all of that. I did sit down with a few people. I, we actually, uh, we sat down and we thought very realistically at this point with my background what all options do I have now? What can I do now?
Speaker 2:what types of people did you sit down?
Speaker 1:the career counselors basically, who are guiding college students, are, and things like that, also with my parents, of course. So I sat down with all of them and I spoke to some of my friends from college. What are you doing nowadays? What fields are you in? So just to kind of explore that, what do you even do after economics? And so I was trying to kind of figure this all out yeah, what did your friends say?
Speaker 2:what did they say they do?
Speaker 1:no, I'll be very honest, most of them did not. Some of them were simply doing a master's because they had no clue what to do after economics. Some of them were in the policymaking space of think tanks and things like that, and I kind of realized that nothing too great is happening here either. It's a very vague field. It's not anything very concrete that this is what they're doing. But I also came across a few cases which were very interesting for me.
Speaker 2:I'm interested what those cases were, but I'm just have to ask because I'm intrigued now Did that make you feel any better, any less resentment about what you might have missed out?
Speaker 1:on? Yeah, I think a little bit, yes, but still again, one more thing I'll add here is that even if they were not doing anything very fancy, I think most of them got a really good job because they graduated from the best university in India. They got really good placements. They were maybe somewhere into consultancy, somewhere, you know, working in areas like this which were not directly connected with economics, but they were at least in stable jobs where they were earning a good amount of money, they were independent and they were maybe moving on with their lives in the sense that they're moving on to the next stages of their lives, that okay, now the job, the career is settled, so maybe move on to marriage and things like that. So again now I was feeling that I'm at a point where I'm sitting at home, I do not have a job, I'm not earning anything. So I think it still seemed better to me from where I was sitting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now through those conversations you said there were some interesting cases or scenarios that some of your connections were in talk to me about what. You know what? Piqued your interest. So I think it was a few of them who were in Talk to me about what you know what piqued your interest.
Speaker 1:So I think it was a few of them who were working with some international agencies like the World Bank, imf or in such places, and that interested me quite a lot because somewhere, like I was telling you, in my lockdown, I saw my father, and you know that his job is a very essential job and he's able to really help hundreds of people every single day with the decisions he's making, and I was able to see that it makes an impact. He's able to make so much of an impact While as an athlete, my impact was really just limited to myself, at least at the level that I was playing at. Unless and until I was, you know, playing at at the level of Saina Nehwal or a PV Sindhu in India, I was not really making that much of an impact. So I felt like this is the space I want to go into, like some sort of a social sector space where I'm able to create a larger impact.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, okay. So what you recognize these? There was something about you that wanted to have an impact, wanted to, like we say, make a dent in the universe, and what you said is sport.
Speaker 1:well, it can do that, but you have to be the top, top person where you're having that type of impact, whereas, despite representing your country, going to international tournaments, winning medals, and you weren't quite making the impact that you, I guess you felt yeah, that's way, because, um, you know I think at least the way it is in India other than a handful of the really top tier athletes who have maybe won Olympic medals, you are, I think you are really not that well known, even if you have, let's say, won a medal at the World Championships. People will not know you, and if they do not know you, you cannot make an impact. Your words will not have that sort of an impact. You cannot. You're not really inspiring a lot of people or anything of that sort.
Speaker 1:So I think that that was a difference. I was seeing that, unless and until you win an Olympic medal, you cannot get to that sort of a stage here. It's almost, I would say, like winning an Olympic medal or being a world top 10. And after that it was almost the same as where I was at 34. So there wasn't much of a difference between a world number 15 and a world number 34 in the terms of whatever they were able to do.
Speaker 2:There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues and, unfortunately, suicide, and so I think it's time to act. Every year, we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life after they leave sport. This might be a retirement injury or they need to juggle dual careers, between sport and a job. As a former English professional footballer, I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking, strategy, innovation and now life coach, career practitioner and founder of the Second Wind Academy. So I want to help those around me find their career second wind. So I want to help those around me find their career second wind. Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
Speaker 2:What you'd achieved as an athlete is amazing, right? You think about that World number 34. You think of all the doubles individuals across the world who play badminton. And you're on a list, you're counted, you know, ranked, I suppose. So, given this sense that you wanted to have a greater impact, you saw these use cases of world bank and um. You know the major global organizations. What did you do next?
Speaker 1:So, again, like I was saying, I was speaking to a lot of people and we realized, I realized, like, at least in India, if you really want to have a direct impact, I think the best way is the civil services, given that, you know, I have done my graduation and I would not have a lot of private sector opportunities and I wasn't even interested there as much. I always thought that money was secondary. Of course, a minimum level of financial security is very important in everyone's life, but it wasn't the sole purpose. That it's not that I just want to go and print money. So for me, it was more about.
Speaker 1:I felt that civil services is a very, very good field where you directly enter at such a high position that your decisions make an impact from day one. So I thought that this is an area I would want to go into. However, in India it is very, very difficult. Almost 1.3 million people write the exam in a single year and only thousand get selected, and so that is, I think, compared to any sport. It's a much lesser percentage compared to probably all the people playing badminton in the world, I would say. And so a lot of people are writing the exam.
Speaker 2:The selection is well, I was going to say yeah, it's a low percentage. I still think getting to world number 34 in a sport is probably that is played in just about every country in the world yeah is an even lesser chap, but so it makes sense. You fancied your odds.
Speaker 1:You thought I could do this again yeah, and I because I think I've always had a very I've always thought that I'm going to give my best.
Speaker 1:You can't keep looking at the competition and be intimidated by it that there are so many people playing, got to focus on yourself. And I always thought about those things, like I was saying, the world bank and all of them as a backup option that okay, if this does not work, I am going to give some time here. It's worth it. Let's spend a couple of years here and if not, I go in for a master's, hopefully, having the kind of diversified background that I do have, I would get into a good university if I do score well on some of the exams that they require and from there maybe I can go on to these international institutions. So that was kind of that backup plan. Having seen people do that, it gave me some sort of a comfort that okay, if things don't work out, this is what I do. And then I just dove into the civil services that now I'm going to give two years of my life entirely to this.
Speaker 2:So your focus was certainly to crack the exam, and I want to get a bit of an understanding as to how you did that. But in passing the exam, so thinking back at that time, what did you hope to achieve? What? What would passing the exam give you what? What was that dream that you set for yourself?
Speaker 1:Very honestly, I think passing the exam is still not the dream. It was the first step towards stepping into the line of work that I'm interested in. So I mean, in the long run, if you look at this, the civil services, the civil servants, are at the topmost position in whichever field you may see. So if today I was looking at, let's say, the Ministry of Finance in India, the secretary would be a civil servant. So, or the Ministry of Sports, for that matter. So the sports secretary is a civil servant. He's making the sports policies for the entire country and he is helping not one, but thousands of athletes like me.
Speaker 1:So somewhere I think that was that is what was there in my mind that this is the first step towards stepping into that direction where you know where I would be able to really do good work, and also the pressure of being jobless and being at home not doing anything, and the fact that I do not have a lot of private sector opportunities at this point. So it's either this or go for a master's, so that did create a lot of pressure on me and I was like we have no other option. We have to do this, I have to somehow make it, and this is a very, very good career prospect in India, of course, like, like I told you, more than a million people are writing the exam every year. You can imagine how many people. Really, for them, this is a dream job. So this is a very good, even in terms of like if I was to talk in terms of, you know, very uh, rational and security sense of view, economic, financial, job security in all of those senses it was a very good prospect.
Speaker 2:So I thought this is where I, this is what I want to do compare the training regime that you did to prep for that exam to being a world number 34.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which was harder, which winded in the effort more most the exam was way harder for me because, simply because I really enjoyed training for badminton. So in badminton, I think, even if we had a regular six to seven hours of on-court training which is scheduled for everyone, I I used, I was the person who would spend that extra one or two hours every single day, even after that. So when everyone would go back, I would request the coach to stay back and, you know, spend extra time. So I was that person. So I enjoyed every single moment I spent on the court and I had a lot of fun doing it. It wasn't hard for me, to be honest, and even those certain moments when you are out of breath and you feel that you're not going to make it out alive, I really used to enjoy it.
Speaker 1:I was good at training and I was like amongst the hardest workers I will say that about myself and I was always, you know, giving my 100% every single session.
Speaker 1:But as when it comes to studying now suddenly coming and sitting 10 hours a day and just studying it, Initially the studying was also very interesting because I was getting to know a lot of new things. But once you have to start revising and the exam is said that you need to revise the thing six to seven times. It gets really boring. Gets really boring to motivate yourself and sit there every single day and do it because there's no one else is going to push you. No one else can make you sit and study for 10 hours every single day for one and a half two years. So it is all about self-motivation and that was really hard. That was really hard. It was basically like I used to always give my friends this sort of a comparison that, if you know, the track session used to be the toughest session for us, which used to be once in a week the 400 and the 800 meters.
Speaker 2:This is like doing 400 meters every single day for an entire year there are some people who would love that, but I can get it as a badminton player.
Speaker 2:That isn't necessarily going to be your strength yeah but it's interesting because but it's interesting because you prepped for one of the hardest exams probably in the world right, and the difference between prepping for that, you know, going through that successfully and getting to, like I say, world number 34 is, I guess, an enjoyment factor, factor a sense of you enjoyed it. You loved the training, you loved that physical and mental aspect of being, um, I guess, a full-time athlete uh.
Speaker 1:So I've always looked at it this way that, as you know, as long as I was playing, I was only playing because I love to play. I was passionate about the sport. I was not getting a lot of money out of it, I was not getting any fame or recognition out of it. I was simply playing because I was passionate about it and I love to play.
Speaker 1:But you know, with all the health issues and all which had started, at one point going to the court kind of became like a burden on me. I felt like I was expect I was going to the court kind of became like a burden on me. I felt like I was going to the court because I'm expected to go to the court, because this is kind of my job at this point. I'm supposed to go there, even when my body is not supporting me, even when I'm not able to do this right now. So at that point I think I even stopped enjoying going on the court and I was like what am I even playing for If I'm not even enjoying it anymore? Know, not even enjoying it anymore. So that is the moment I also again I wanted to step back. I think it was a everything happening at once. That made me really step back.
Speaker 2:Otherwise I probably wouldn't have well, I guess we should finish in at least the part where you did all this study for the exam. When did you take the test? When did you take the exam itself?
Speaker 1:um, so actually, uh, I finally sat down to study in December of 2021. The exam happens every year, so I gave my first attempt in 2022 with only some six to seven months of prep, because the exam happens at the end of May. I was obviously not prepped by that time because this is an exam which requires sometimes people take five to six years to clear it and I was giving it with six months of prep. So that was for me like a trial with the exam that do I think I can do this and how much more work and do I really want to do this? And so my proper attempt was in 2022, may 2022. And the exam happens in three stages. So May 2022 was the first step, september 2022 was the next step of the exam and then the final step, which is the interview, happened in April of 2023. So that is how the entire process was. And in April of 2023, soon after my interview, we got the results and I got into the police services and congratulations in that you know thank you twice beating the odds?
Speaker 2:okay, um, so far, so far. And so what does that mean? What? So? What? What do you do? What are you doing today? What's your job today?
Speaker 1:uh. So right now I'm in training because, uh, the police is a very technical job. There's a lot of weapon handling, there is forensics, investigation and so many things, uh, tactics, uh. So our training period is almost. The overall probation period is two years, out of which, uh, you know, one and a half years you train in the academy, where they teach you all of these things. So, like you know, if I was to talk about weapons, they will teach us how to be, uh, how to handle every single different type of weapon that is there, up to shoulder mounted rocket launchers to a, you know, pistol and all of them. So there's a lot of technical things that go in here. And then you also have to study the law.
Speaker 1:As a police officer, you're supposed to know the law, so you know. So there's a lot of all this. It goes on for a year and a half, and then you do go on the ground, which is your internship period. So you're still under training, but you're learning how things are actually run on the ground, which will, for me, happen now, next year, and after that, like, like, 2023 august, I started my training. So you know it will go on till 2026, 2024 august. I started my training. It will go on till 2026. And uh, then I would get a full charge where I would be probably handling the law in order of uh, one big city. When I first joined the full charge, yeah, um, and so just from again.
Speaker 2:So you, you began the studies in December 21,. Took test, practice testing May 22,. Passed successfully in 23?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, 23. 23,. The exam cycle started in 23 May and it ended in April 24. So that was my exam cycle, and August 2024, I joined my training.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. Okay, so we are somewhat fresh into that first part of the training and I'm guessing, because I know you spoke about the I guess the cognitive part, the test itself is there, the physical aspect or physical test that comes into play as well.
Speaker 1:So actually the exam is a combined exam for 22 services. Not all the services really require a physical aspect to them, so some of them are a lot more like an office desk job. So that's why the exam does not have a physical, like a very basic physical component to it. Just checking that you do not have any major disabilities, otherwise you do go into the disability category. And but for police training, our police training is very rigorous, it is very physical. Every day we're running five kilometers and doing a lot of 400s, 800s back to all of that yes, so you, you could not escape, uh, the 400, 800s.
Speaker 2:In fact, it's got worse yeah, yeah, I'm the one who excels at it, of course yeah, I was gonna say I bet you've done this my entire life yeah, suddenly, suddenly, the fact in the 5k is that okay, actually, compared to the, the rest of the population, you, you, you are elite, um, and you've continued to move into yeah, I guess an elite and very, I guess, rigorous and, to an extent, competitive field, right, so you, you're continuing to push yourself and so, like you say, that impact that you, that you search for, to what extent do you feel you're on the path to, to get towards making the impact that you want to have on on society?
Speaker 1:um, I think I'm certainly in the right direction because, uh, I know now as a police officer, I can give justice to so many people. I can really help the victims and the ones who really need it. I can help them out because I think, not just in ind, but across the world, victims really do suffer. It's not easy to get justice, however the criminal justice system is. So as a police officer, there's a very direct impact. You can make a huge impact to the lives of these people and I think, as I go forward and go to the higher ranks, I would be able to even diversify into other departments and other areas. For that matter, sports Sports is something which is very close to my heart and now, as a police officer, I can really make a huge impact there.
Speaker 1:I can help kids in the community really, you know, because I personally feel that sports as an elite athlete and sports as a part of the lifestyle it's very different. What we really need is that everyone needs to be a player. Everyone needs to play some sport as a part of their lifestyle. It teaches you so much. So, and that is something we do not see in India, unless and until you have the financial backing and you come from a family where you find the support. Not everyone is playing. So I think doing that sort of a thing at the community level, where it becomes a part of your lifestyle, those are the type of things I'll be able to do. And again, yeah, sports is one of those areas. So I think I will have the opportunity. If I'm interested in the environment aspect of things, sustainability, I will have the opportunity.
Speaker 2:No matter what I want to do, I will have that position where I'll be able to make all this difference absolutely, and you know it pulls together your time in sport beautifully with what you're doing now in civil service and you know that that impact that you um searched for by being in the top 10 globally probably the mix between your sport and being in that Indian civil service police force you know, whichever service that ends up being in the long term probably can magnify your impact much beyond whether you just did one or the other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I 100% agree with it.
Speaker 1:I think when I initially went to our training academy and we were a batch of 700 there training all together, I could really feel that my experiences here are completely different from what anyone else has.
Speaker 1:The kind of exposure I've had I started traveling all alone at the age of 13 years old all across the world and the kind of exposure, the confidence, the skills that I have learned because of this are really invaluable like nobody has them. And I think the thing you were saying that looking back now, then I was really able to value my sports experiences as well, looking back from this perspective that what sport gave me is something which nobody else here has, and that is what sets me apart and that is what will set me apart throughout my life not only my work ethic and the discipline and self-motivation, the skills I developed there, but also the exposure I've had, the kind of people management skills I learned very early on, the kind of politics I faced very early on, and just the open-mindedness that traveling all across the world brought me. So these will be things which will really set me apart, I feel.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I fully agree, fully agree, and it's wonderful to hear that you've recognized, that You've recognized or you recognize right now the attributes that helped you be an awesome athlete are there to help you now in this next part of your career. You know it's given you that sense of, I guess, clarity, perhaps a sense of confidence as well in in what you're doing, when you think of athletes coming through now so that that next batch coming through thinking, hey, I got to give it my all from a sporting perspective. What guidance from your experience, what guidance would you give them on how to set themselves up for a positive career transition?
Speaker 1:I think the most important thing is to be humble, because something which I have seen is sometimes a sense of entitlement do comes into a lot of athletes. Even I think I had that as well when I was playing. I felt, if I'm world number 34, if I'm this, I should be getting this, I should be getting that and this recognition, that recognition, this support, that support, those sponsorships, like things like that. I think the most important thing is humility. You should be humble. You should always remember how much of a privilege it is to get to play as a profession. It is a luxury that you're getting to pursue what you really love and what you're passionate about professionally.
Speaker 1:And you know, just having that humility, being grateful to the people who are supporting you is, I think, very important. And also just remembering that the world is huge. I mean, whether you're a civil servant or whether you're an athlete, it is just one part of it. So sometimes, uh, just looking at things from that wider perspective, that the world is huge, there are endless opportunities and endless things. One thing does not become more important than the other. Everything has its own place, you know, just having that sort of a thing. So I think we are people who pursue our passions, and we can always. I think it is difficult, but we can find another thing we are passionate about and then give our 100% there and pursue that. So yeah, the skills you learn here are going to stay there with you the entire life and they will help you excel no matter where you go.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that. Listen, Kuhu, I got to say thank you so much for just sharing your perspective and having a wonderful conversation with me today. There are going to be those people listening who might want to follow your story, maybe reach out. What's the best way to keep in touch with you and see what you're up to?
Speaker 1:I think you can follow me on my Instagram by the name of Kuhu Garg. That is where I normally all my updates would be there on Instagram. So, yeah, that's the best way.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. Well, we'll make sure that that's all in the show notes so people can contact you as well. Kuhu, thank you for sharing your story on finding that career clarity and joining me on the Second Wind Academy podcast today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. I had a lovely conversation.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy Until next time.
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