141: Marnie Wills: Sport, Business, and AI: You Never Lose, You Only Learn

In today's episode, Ryan sits down with Marnie—a former dual international athlete (representing England in both netball and touch rugby), mum of two, and entrepreneur who’s revolutionizing early-years sports education and AI adoption in business.

Marnie’s story is one of relentless determination, adaptability, and learning to thrive in multiple arenas—whether on the pitch, in the boardroom, or at home with her young family. From her early days as a self-described "B-team player" in Australia to captaining England teams and launching her own business, Marnie shares how she’s navigated career transitions, motherhood, and the evolving world of AI—all while keeping her love for sport alive.

Key Takeaways:

1. The Power of Adaptability
   • Marnie’s journey from a "B-team" athlete to an international competitor was fueled by her ability to play multiple roles—something she now instills in the athletes she coaches.
   • "Your team is only as strong as the player in their weakest role. Versatility wins games—and careers."
2. When Passion Meets Entrepreneurship
   • Frustrated by the limitations of teaching PE in the UK, Marnie quit her job mid-career to launch Sporty Minis, now impacting 3,000+ kids weekly with early-years sports education.
   • "I lacked purpose as a PE teacher. Starting my own business wasn’t just about freedom—it was about making real impact."
3. AI: The Game-Changer for Busy Professionals
   • Marnie’s top AI tools for efficiency:
     • Otter.ai (meeting notes)
     • Claude (copywriting)
     • Custom GPTs (train AI to sound like you)
   • "AI isn’t a trend—it’s the future. Adopt a growth mindset or get left behind."
4. Athlete Mindset in Business
   • From fearing competition to empowering her team: "Now, my favorite part of leadership is watching others excel—even if they’re better than me."
   • Why her businesses grow faster when she’s not micromanaging: "Sometimes, the bottleneck is you."
5. The Emotional Side of Sport & Transition
   • Post-motherhood, returning to elite sport was her toughest challenge—mentally, physically, and emotionally.
   • Why she still plays (and coaches) at 40+: "Putting on that jersey? It’s the one time I feel purely me—not ‘Mum’ or ‘CEO.’"
6. Advice for Athletes Juggling Careers
   • "Reflect on your strengths. Every skill you’ve honed in sport—discipline, teamwork, resilience—translates to business. The only failure is not trying."

Ready to explore your own second act after sport? Connect with Ryan Gonsalves and the 2NDWind Academy to discover how your athletic experience can become your professional advantage here: www.2ndwind.io 

Chapters

• 0:00 From Australia to England: Marnie's Background
• 4:13 Finding Identity Through Sport
• 10:48 Career Struggles as a PE Teacher
• 15:13 Dual International Athlete Experience
• 21:06 Starting a Business: Sporty Minis
• 28:46 Leadership Lessons and Business Growth
• 35:41 Advice for Athletes in Career Transition
• 44:28 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

So you know, growing up doing sport on the Gold Coast sounds like it was an immense part of your life. You said you wanted to be a PE teacher. Was that, then, the plan? From a sporting perspective, what aspirations did you have whilst you were in Australia?

Speaker 2: 0:14

Gosh, I actually didn't really, because I kind of grew up in B-teams. It didn't really even occur to me and it wasn't until I went to uni and I didn't actually get the grades to go into teaching. So I did a health science degree and went around the other way, but, to be fair, and it wasn't until uni and I'd made the athletics team and then I'd made a Queensland netball team and then I dabbled around with some touch outside of university that I just I think my confidence just grew as I kind of grew as an individual and a person and I was able to train a little bit more specific as well. Like, as you get older, you know university teams as an example. You just have access to better quality coaches, better quality training.

Speaker 1: 1:01

Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people after all. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Marnie, welcome to the Second Wind Academy podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:38

Hi Ryan, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:40

You are more than welcome. I think I was saying before, I love the background that you have and in fact it's getting better because the birds are fluttering in the background as well.

Speaker 2: 1:49

And hopefully you can't see the steam coming out of my mouth because it's so cold.

Speaker 1: 1:55

I know, listen, here's me. So we're swapping our home countries here. So we've got me in 32 degree heat and it's like still 8 pm and well, and I guess it's just a bit nippy for you.

Speaker 2: 2:09

uh, back in england it's a balmy six degrees at quarter past nine in the morning that is awesome.

Speaker 1: 2:16

There we go, and and you're braving it outside. Well, hopefully we'll we'll have a rousing conversation, so it'll keep you nice and warm. Thanks for joining me and well, do you know what? Just quite simply been open to share your story. I think it's actually really fascinating, especially because you're an Aussie now in England, having represented England at sport, but represented England across two sports and then quite an entrepreneurial flow as well.

Speaker 2: 2:41

Yeah, I think I was telling to you just earlier about the fact that I don't sound very Australian anymore, which upsets me a little sometimes, but I have been here in the UK for 20 years. I did come over as a ripe 21 year old, so yeah, it's been a long journey over here, but thoroughly enjoyed it.

Speaker 1: 2:59

Yeah and well, I guess, starting from where you are sort of right now, just let us know what you're up to nowadays and give us that infomercial.

Speaker 2: 3:08

Sure, so I am a mum. I like to start with that. I think that's really important. It's probably my proudest achievements thus far. My little girls are seven and three. I'm also a business owner, so I am the CEO of a company called Sporty Minis. Business owner so I am the CEO of a company called Sporty Minis and we go into early years settings and deliver physical education. And I'm also an AI consultant, so I help businesses and education adopt AI and try to be more efficient and creative with AI tools. And I guess I still play. I still play touch, so I. Last year was my fourth World Cup and then this year we have a little European championships to get ready for. And I also do a lot of coaching, which I absolutely love. So this year I'm doing the England mixed 20 side for the Youth Atlantic Cup. So all of that keeps me very busy.

Speaker 1: 4:01

Wow, wow, as I fully can imagine, probably none more so than being a mum with the two girls, but then trying to fit the businesses. And, as you say, touch rugby or I don't know, are you saying touch rugby or touch footy or footy?

Speaker 2: 4:15

I grew up calling it touch footy, but I guess here in the UK if you're in the circle you just call it touch and if you're out of the circle you call it touch rugby oh, I'll get in with touch then and I won't add the footy or anything else towards the end of that.

Speaker 1: 4:29

But I think that's again quite interesting. But you mentioned coaching the 20s in the Atlantic, did you say?

Speaker 2: 4:35

What's that? Yeah, the Youth Atlantic Cup. Yeah, so every other year, I think every other year. So one year we have a European Championships and and then the second year we have a Youth Atlantic Cup, and that also includes all of Europe, but it includes South Africa, usa, cayman Islands and then on the other side. So where you are in Australia, they've got an Asian Cup, I think it might be called, or Transatlantic. Oh, I should have looked that up beforehand. Theirs is coming up. It's in may and they've got like australia, new zealand, singapore, japan, malaysia and that site, yeah yeah, sounds like a good asian cub to me.

Speaker 1: 5:14

But yeah, we'll get it right. We'll get the fact check, we'll get in the show notes so everyone knows what they should be looking out for. And you mentioned in, from a business perspective, a couple of things there from sport minis, but starting with the ai, talk to me a bit what I'm asking for a friend cool.

Speaker 2: 5:33

So what does your friend need to know? What would you like to know, right?

Speaker 1: 5:37

oh, just how my ai make their business sort of more efficient. What are the sorts of things they should look out for? I think, yeah, just yeah, just generally thinking, but they do, you know, perhaps the odd podcast and maybe a bit of coaching as well perfect.

Speaker 2: 5:51

Well, I always start with actually mindset, because I think ai is well, actually, I don't think I know. Ai is not a trend. It is here to stay and it is revolutionizing our technology and if we don't adopt growth mindset around the fact that ai can literally do almost anything for us and fast forward 5, 10, 15 years, ai will be doing everything for us. We have to kind of get on board with that and have that adoption mindset and the mindset around abundance of. We've got a lot to do personally, you as a podcaster and all the other endeavors that you have as well. You've got to think to myself. Personally, you as a podcaster and all the other endeavors that you have as well. You've got to think to yourself how can I save time by using an AI tool? And I guess it starts with always. My top three tips would be always have an AI meeting note taker, so always have an AI. My favorite is otterai and otter joins me everywhere and then that becomes my bank of memory. So I've been using Otter since 2022 and I can jump on and I can even ask Otter AI to look back at or have a look back at all my conversations. Pick up a few things that are related to when I was talking about AI in 2022 and it will go through all my conversations I've had and it will bring something up and I can take that and I can put that into another favorite AI tool of mine, which is called Claude. Claude is great at copywriting and I can ask Claude to write me a LinkedIn post about what I was talking about around AI in 2022. That's what I'm doing now and there you go, and then I think my third, probably best, ai kind of tool would be ChatGPT and a custom GPT so you can train, and one of the first workshops I do is always train AI to sound like you, because it's really important that we learn how to talk to AI, because AI is built with a whole lot of data, a whole lot of information, and especially the generative AI, which is the AI that we use for all the ones that we know about ChatGPT or Gemini, and it will always try and please you.

Speaker 2: 7:48

So if you say I would like you to create me an outline for a podcast, I'm doing. It will try and please you and only give you what it knows, but if you give it as much information about you, your guest, the outcomes you want, your audiences, and then it has more information. It will be able to impress you there. And I would suggest you do your own podcast, gpt, where you give it a lot of information about what you've done already, all your past guests, how you want the podcast to be structured and how you want it to ask the questions, I guess. And then you can always use that GPT and I know you have an assistant as well, so you can always use that GPT as well, because you can share the link. And then there you go. Three tips brilliant.

Speaker 1: 8:30

Those are awesome. Three tips. And actually, do you know what I love the first bit is or not? Just on the tools. But you start off with the mindset. That's not where I would have gone to. Perhaps I wouldn't have gone to mindset first, I'd have probably gone straight to the tools. And yeah, I like the way you just bring that around.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Yeah, especially in a lot of women. In business networking groups that I go to, there's a lot of professionals you know lawyers or accountants, just as an example and you know that they're very scared of it. They're normally later in age and I just say to them okay, where were you in 2008 when the iPhone or the smartphone became the go-to? I said I was at uni, I had a BlackBerry and I thought it was the bee's knees Like, literally. I was like why would I change to an iPhone Like my BlackBerry I can type? Why would I do that?

Speaker 2: 9:20

And it wasn't until my granddad had an iPhone and an iPad that I was like hang on a second, I know right. So for me I talk about that because I'm like we all thought what we had was great and we were almost I mean say we stereotyping. I did, I thought what I had was great and I didn't think I was very techie at all and it's really important to note that you don't have to be techie to use AI at all. Important to note that you don't have to be techie to use AI at all. Really, really important to note that and I didn't think I was techie at all, so I didn't want to change to it. I think I didn't really know how to use it, it would take time and all of these things, and that's exactly where we are now. But guess what? That was only 17 years ago and our life has completely changed. And I don't know about you, but I could work literally a whole week by my phone, not not have to open the laptop.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Pretty much there with you on that one as well. You're quite right, that shift, it does change. And look, what we should do is certainly get into the athletic side of your life and then get back to that. No, no, just like I said, I was asking for a friend. They literally just popped in. Let's just see where we go. But that's all good. But perhaps there is something, something there and we talk and you know the mindset and the coaching that you do in terms of of sport and you know we do say, guess where you flip it? But the, a lot of the difference between elite and you know the, or the top level and true elite, comes down to that mindset and that belief and how you set yourself up. So maybe we'll, we'll loop back around into that piece. But I'm curious then for you you know the question I ask growing up, at that starting point, for you, where, in a non-tech world, what was sport for you as you started to grow up? And actually where were you when you were growing up?

Speaker 2: 10:52

Yeah, so I was on the Gold Coast in Australia and I know vividly that I loved PE and I wanted to be a PE teacher from the time I was five and literally everything I did was related to that and PE was always my favorite. And, yeah, and the only subject I ever got A's in was PE when it got to secondary school. So it's always what I wanted to do. I was really lucky. My parents valued sport and physical activity so I did little athletics and swimming and netball and my auntie was really into touch so she used to take me to adult touch concert. I was like 10, 12. And then as a family, we played together so we were all in one team at one point. I have a younger brother and sister, so it was all five of us in a team. It didn't last very long. To be honest, we didn't really play very well together, but it was just a family thing. It's what we knew.

Speaker 2: 11:43

And to be fair and I was only telling this story to my partner just the other week, because we were talking about our daughter being selected for a football team we were trying to work out, you know, whether she was the selected in the A or the B team. We weren't quite sure and and I just said to him you know what? I don't think it matters at this age. I said because I know I went through most of my secondary school years playing in the B team. I still managed to become an international athlete and I think the reason in my view and my perspective, I think the reason is because I was such an all-rounder and I was such a natural leader.

Speaker 2: 12:15

And I think if you're in the B team and you've got someone that can play everywhere and you can captain, why would you then go and put them in the A team to be second choice, to get on in a position? And I kind of understand that now. And one of the things I often say to the players that I'm coaching at an international level is I want you to be really good at your role, but I want you to be really adaptable, to be able to go into another role. I don't want you to just be one position, because I believe that your team and the performance of your team is only as good as the player playing in their weakest role or position. And that role it doesn't have to be a position. That role could be a leadership role, or it could be a role in which they need to even just respect people around them Like you're only as strong as everybody, understanding their strengths and their weaknesses and playing to the roles and responsibilities that they've got.

Speaker 1: 13:06

Yeah, I fundamentally believe that too. So I definitely preaching to the choir, if we can use that phrase, because I'm all about that team and, for me, growing up playing football, I very quickly recognized the role that we all had to play all 11 of us, in fact, I'll bring the substitutes as well in driving a team culture, in helping those on the field to perform at our best and, like you say, whoever was down that day, it was on us as a team to really lift them up. So, as a squad, we would perform at our best. So you know, growing up doing sport on the Gold Coast sounds like it was an immense part of your life. You said you wanted to be a PE teacher. Was that, then, the plan? From a sporting perspective? What aspirations did you have whilst you were in Australia?

Speaker 2: 13:53

Gosh, I actually didn't really, because I kind of grew up in B teams. It didn't really even occur to me and it wasn't until I went to uni and I didn't actually get the grades to go into teaching. So I did a health science degree and went around the other way. But, to be fair, and it wasn't until uni and I'd made the athletics team and then I'd made a Queensland netball team and then I dabbled around with some touch outside of university that I just I think my confidence just grew as I kind of grew as an individual and a person and I was able to train a little bit more specific as well.

Speaker 2: 14:28

Like, as you get older, you know university teams as an example. You just have access to better quality coaches, better quality training and, to be fair, I was still rushing around like a crazy kid. I remember on a Thursday rushing from a touch game on the Gold Coast, rushing all the way up to Brisbane to play Queensland netball under 20s, and you know I did it all and in the morning I'd had athletics training and that's just what university life was like for me just go to this sport, do that sport. And I didn't really get into the university party stuff, because it was all sport focused for me, but I wouldn't change a thing.

Speaker 1: 15:03

No, god, that's interesting, right, you were just loving sport, quite simply, and studying, as you say, the long way around, but towards becoming a PE teacher, effectively. What then inspired this move across to the UK? What's the story behind that?

Speaker 2: 15:19

So I actually got injured, I tore an ACL and I was rehabbing and I guess when, like all athletes, when they have injuries, everything changes. And I don't know, for me, I just became a little bit more open to opportunities. And there was an opportunity. It was my high school sweetheart at the time who, surprisingly, we're best friends now. He's married and I'm the godmother to his son. So we obviously moved over together, but it didn't last too long and then now we're still best friends. So, yeah, we moved. We just had an opportunity to move over. He was in the hospitality industry and I was a teacher, so we just moved over and he played sports, so he did. He came over actually in a rugby league scholarship, so he got that and then I quickly joined the netball setup and the touch setup and, yeah, within I think 2010 was my first representative year after moving over in 2009.

Speaker 1: 16:14

So when you move, I mean, which is pretty cool. So clearly you move, I mean, which is pretty cool, so clearly you came over with just an abundance of joy for doing sport and it sounds like coming off the injury. You're like, oh my gosh, I'm playing again and this was great. How different was the approach well to, I guess, to touch and to netball in England, to what you had witnessed or to what you went through in Australia?

Speaker 2: 16:37

That's a really good question, because, now that I'm thinking about it, that's definitely what increased my confidence and I and hopefully I can say this as nicely as possible it was terrible, but so terrible, yeah, it was so terrible that at one point I actually went to play basketball. At one point I was like, oh gosh, I went to play basketball and then I also the touch also wasn't the best and I got roped in to play rugby and I'd never played rugby before, so and but even that was hard because the forwards weren't so good and the ladies couldn't really catch the ball. So play being a back it was like I never got the ball. But it actually gave me confidence because, again, I think I then was able to almost jump straight into a leadership role, straight into coaching. I have coached almost from the time I was 14, I think it was my first coaching gig. So, like I've coached and it's just a natural ability of mine and I think I just jumped into that and that's what allowed me to excel in both netball and touch quite quickly, because the standard wasn't as good and I just took all those skills that I'd already kind of showcased during school and university.

Speaker 2: 17:37

What I will say now, though very important for me to say is netball is absolutely amazing. Most of England players go and play in the Australian Super League and vice versa, and they came second in the last Commonwealth Games. England for netball and touch same thing. You know we're ranked third in the world after Australia, new Zealand and the and the last World Cup my England team actually beat New Zealand and you know, when I first started playing against Australia, our scores were like 22-0. But the last score, I think, was like 10-5 against Australia, so the gap is definitely closed.

Speaker 1: 18:08

Yes, it has. And look, I think the investment in what I'll just say broadly, the investment and interest in women's sport, and I'll say, actually, in australia's change, but I know as well in the uk, it has increased tenfold, hundred fold, from where it was uh, like you say, back in 2010. So, yes, that standard has got there and, as an avid sports family, we do well, we pretty much watch any sport that's live in person here. So we tend to go to a lot of sport and if england or any any England person is playing, we go along, and I'm convincing the boys to continue to support England. So it is, uh, it is quite good. So now you, then you're playing, but you came over here not for sport, you sorry, you came over to England. Actually, you went to England not for sporting purposes but for, like, follow your high school sweetheart, but then from a, I guess, a non-sporting, from a career perspective, what did you imagine would then happen?

Speaker 2: 19:02

Yeah, well, I actually did come over for a career as well, because I couldn't get a teaching job on the Gold Coast. You have to go and do your rural time first and I got posted to Gundawindi, which is six hours away from any closest airport, I think. I think it's like right in the middle of Australia. I don't know much about Gundawindi and all I knew is that I didn't want to be there. So, yeah, got on a plane and off I went, but it probably broke. Moving over here probably broke my career dream of being a PE teacher. I really struggled. In Australia Everybody wanted to be a PE teacher in my era and everybody loves PE teachers and it was the coolest job in the world and no one was retiring. And I come over here and no one wants to be a PE teacher and nobody enjoys PE and the facility is a rubbish. And yeah, you're not teaching for a lifelong passion, you're teaching to an assessment piece and it was mind-blowingly painful.

Speaker 2: 19:53

I tried many different things within my career. I tried to do like head of department director roles. I tried youth school sports partnerships. I tried everything to make an impact and I really struggled. So I lasted eight years, maybe eight, 10 years and then I started my own business. I just actually to be fair. There was a lot of reasons for starting my own business. The main one was I hated the. I just lacked purpose as a PE teacher over here. And secondly was I was a dual international athlete and no one was giving me time off. And one of the head teachers actually said to me if you're a professional, I would definitely give you time off. And I said, oh, okay, but if I was professional and getting paid, paid, I probably wouldn't be a teacher. So I just decided that I can, I can do this on my own, and off I went.

Speaker 1: 20:42

So there's a lot there. You jumped into this that piece around being a dual international, which I guess we haven't discussed yet, so let's go back to that very quickly and say what do you mean by being a dual international?

Speaker 2: 20:55

yeah, I was really lucky. 2014, 2015, 2016 I got to play both England netball and it was net. So it's indoor netball and touch rugby at the same time, so my competitions overlapped. And biggest year was 2015. Right, I was in Australia twice for the touch rugby world cup and then all the touch world cup and then the netball championship world championships so one was in Coffs Harbour and one was in Brisbane all in that year and it was crazy because my business I'd only started my business 18 months before that, so it was a juggle.

Speaker 1: 21:28

Yeah, well, I bet it was right, because the bit that is amazing is you just enjoyed sport. You enjoyed sport from participating. You enjoyed sport to the extent you wanted to teach it and you were coaching from a young age. Once you started hitting those representative levels, to what extent did your enjoyment of sport or sense of sport change?

Speaker 2: 21:51

Oh gosh, that's a really good question. I haven't really thought about it. I think I struggled later on in my career when selection was harder and I wasn't making top teams, and mainly due to age probably, and therefore you know young, younger people coming through. So I think that was when I started to not probably show signs of feeling like the enjoyment wasn't outweighing the, the anxiety and the stress and the or the mindset needed to find. Just have some self-belief because, yeah, you don't believe your coach believes in you because they're making the hard selections. So you've got to have some type of trust and belief in yourself. So I think that's probably the first time I was challenged was later in my career when, yeah, it was hard to make teams and going through your mind is more gosh.

Speaker 1: 22:43

What am I doing this for? Why am I slogging through a pre-season or that hard work or heartache not to play or not to enjoy it in that same way?

Speaker 2: 22:52

yeah, exactly. And then the big turning point was when I had my first little girl. Trying to get back was hard the hardest thing mentally, physically and emotionally and it was really. It was really, really hard and my sister, bless her, actually moved over from Australia for a year to help me prep for the 2019 workup because I was struggling, looking after my little one and training and my business and just trying to be a good all-round person and get the best best out of myself every day.

Speaker 2: 23:19

It was really hard, yeah her coming over certainly helped build that I guess home community for you yeah, yeah, the support, yeah, definitely, because, um, I'm sure you 100 agree and see it in the elite setup. You're, in a lot of the time, the athlete isn't the athlete without the support that they have around them, and it's not always the professional support, it's the family or friend support.

Speaker 1: 23:41

yeah, that certainly becomes really important and you know talking about that and you touched on it with you know, in the job as a teacher for many athletes. Well, so you're doing it's funny, I haven't got a phrase for you that because dual career athlete is doing, let's say, netball and a teacher, but you are doing two sports and a job on a tri-career athlete, I feel right. But we'll go with that, we'll go with tri-career athlete, yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:10

Okay, great and so in there you spoke then that you didn't really get. I'm sure it's changed nowadays, but you didn't really get the support from from the school education department or perhaps it was individual but to help do your best. What was the hardest thing about that then? How did you manage to get everything in?

Speaker 2: 24:29

just train in the morning, train in the afternoons, play on weekends. Yeah, honestly, you just like all athletes that want to be the best, they just make it work. They work out their priorities and they, yeah, they just look after themselves. Um, I don't know the secret, I don't know the. I couldn't tell you. I think it's it's sheer determination. I am a very determined person, I'm very ambitious and very competitive and I think those traits alone just allow you to grind.

Speaker 1: 24:55

I think yeah, that grind, that determination as you described there and you say that helped spur you to start your, your business I'll say first business but really to start properly, to leave education there and go into your first business. But you said there are a couple of reasons. Talk to me about what were those reasons that inspired you to go and be that entrepreneur.

Speaker 2: 25:17

Yes, I think it was probably a couple of years before that I took a bit of a supplement from teaching and I was helping out a business that was delivering personal training qualifications and I was kind of ended up kind of running that business and that just gave me massive confidence to kind of love being my own boss, almost because schools are very rigid. Right, you got to be here at a certain time, you're going to deliver it a certain time you have to. It's endless in schools. So, yeah, I think I just got the bit of a bug for being a little bit entrepreneurial there. And then, when I saw a bit of a gap in the market, I've also always done personal training and strength and conditioning on the side, so I've always had like an extra income. So I guess it wasn't a massive leap when I left teaching to start a sports education business, because I always had other income on the side as well.

Speaker 2: 26:04

And yeah, I think once I went back into teaching and I just absolutely hated it and then the last straw was not being able to go to a competition or which I did do I just had to put my resignation in. I just was like I can do this and I can make more impact and and I've always been a bit of an impact driven person I think I'm like how can I make a difference? How can I make things better? And I just knew when I was a secondary school PE teacher I would get especially girls, 11 year old girls. They didn't know how to throw, catch, jump land, they didn't know the basics. They hated PE if they weren't into football. They't like it and they thought PE was just football, unfortunately in many cases. And then I tried to do primary.

Speaker 2: 26:43

But again, for me I struggle here because in primary schools PE isn't always taught by a PE teacher, a qualified teacher who's been to university. It's either taught by the classroom teacher or a sports coach. And I struggle with that because PE is a curriculum subject. It should be taught. It's's like saying to year five class who are about to do their stats and exams that's it. This year you're not going to be taught by T2, you're going to be taught by TA and, without being rude, there's amazing TAs and there's amazing sports coaches and but that's principally not right. So I just try to see where I can make more of an impact and it's in the early years. We get children active, confident and loving all things sport, physical activity from a young age. So that's been my mission since 2014 and I'm lucky enough to have business partners now in certain regions and we're up to delivering about 3 000 children a week, which is phenomenal. So, yeah, I don't know if that answers your question yes, it does.

Speaker 1: 27:33

it does answer the question. I I think that from both a pull or determination to carve out, to live the life the way you wanted to live it, and what that meant was you wanted sport to be a key part of that. You were competing at that elite level. The schooling system at the time certainly didn't accommodate it and wow, and as you said, you were compelled to resign in order to go ahead and compete, and that helped you then to set up a business. But that's me replaying what I hear you know, which is, I think, quite special really. And 3,000 kids a week, that's a big number. Now you know, you talk about perhaps jumping ahead in some respects, but once you started that business and you had your competing priorities of sport. So we're going with a tri-career athlete, tri-career individual, so so which one did you have to sort of give up first of your sports, or how did that sort of play out?

Speaker 2: 28:33

I definitely don't think I gave up on anything. I just wasn't good enough to make it anymore. And it was netball. It was netball I, just after having first baby. I just did not recover. I'm one of those players that is explosive off the bench, you know. Come on, make a difference. I'm not your starting seven. I'm a hard grafter and those strengths took a while to come back after baby. So I didn't go back to netball.

Speaker 1: 28:58

Look, so that's a retirement from that level right or from that sport. But to what extent did you miss it at the time?

Speaker 2: 29:04

I was still coaching at the time, so I guess I didn you miss it at the time. I was still coaching at the time, so I guess I I didn't miss it. I don't know how did I miss it. I don't think I did. I think I. I actually I know exactly what I did.

Speaker 2: 29:17

I put all of my attention into trying to become a high level umpire. I remember putting all my attention into that, exactly that, because at the time I think I didn't want to transition to just coaching, because in my head I still wanted to be involved in the game, like doing the game, and I think that and I still definitely have that hang up a little bit, probably why I haven't hung up my touch boots I just feel like to be the best coach. You still got to be in it and doing it. I think that's a mindset that I'll probably have to work on. But anyway, yeah, I remember trying to then go for my A award in netball. I think I put all my attention into there. So I was still doing netball, I was just officiating.

Speaker 1: 29:58

You were Well not in the middle, is it? Yeah, it's on the side. On the side blowing the whistle louder, right on the side, blowing the whistle louder, right, and so for you. So you continued doing rugby, then continued doing touch, as you were competing there. I'm interested then for you touch representing England. What did you hope to achieve there? What was like the shining, the big goal for you?

Speaker 2: 30:20

Gosh, I don't know. I think honestly, I think I just get a massive buzz from putting on an England jersey and going to play the game I love like I don't, I don't know, I would do anything to put on a jersey. There was definitely one year where I didn't make a squad and I was named as a reserve and it devastated me and I basically just was like no, I'm not having this, and just went to the high performance director and I said I would do anything to put a jersey on. I don't, there's other teams out there that could definitely use me. He's like yeah, you're right, you know.

Speaker 2: 30:53

So then I had two other offers to join two other teams, because in touch you have your main men's and women's, but then you have a mixed team and then you have seniors. So, yeah, I just wanted to put a jersey on and I wanted to make a difference and play and do what I do. And I don't know, I don't know how to explain it. I think it's just a little bit about my identity and I'm just in the zone and I just feel like me and now these days I don't feel like the business owner that has to pay the wages at the end of the month, or the mum that has to go and do mum's taxi. I just feel like me.

Speaker 1: 31:28

I don't know how else to explain it. I think you've explained it wonderfully. It's a sense you're just enjoying playing. You push yourself. What pushing yourself for you is is getting to that jersey. That's, you know.

Speaker 2: 31:38

It's that level right and I hope to still be able to do it, regardless of the level. I mean, as I as you've we've clearly discussed here, I need to need to do some mindset work on that. You know, I was at a women in sport event last night, a charity event and I met the most amazing lady who? She was actually GB's, one of GB's first rowing medalists. So it's Miriam. She was in 2000 Sydney Olympics and she won the first ever medal, a silver medal, and she's talked through her journey and you know how much she still rows and she still bikes and and she's just finished a cancer battle and like she does it because it's it's a connection to her life, it feels like her life and, yeah, I think for many athletes they hold on to that as long as possible.

Speaker 1: 32:23

Yes, well, I mean, we do, masters, whatever level it might be. There is this enjoyment of playing. I think what is, you know, thought provoking, by the way, the way you've described it for you is it? It's the playing, it's the participation? No, not the participation. I don't mean that in a, in a, yeah, just lock up and get a badge, but I mean, okay, it's the competing, it's getting in there and getting stuck in. And the way you've described yourself as a, as a player, that graft, that grit, that determination, and it probably is just like you growing up on the Gold Coast, just playing sport and B Team, it doesn't matter, you're just playing, you're just enjoying it yeah, and don't get me wrong, I think the first years in England when we're playing in Europe, you know I hated to lose.

Speaker 2: 33:08

We didn't lose anything. We only time we lost was every four years when they could put cup to the world cup. So I definitely got into a really bad habit of not liking to lose and not taking it very well. But I think as I aged and had children and just then felt so grateful to still be playing and to still put an England jersey on every single year, I think I've really changed to the fact where I don't mind if we lose because, like you know, you never fail. You only learn and it's almost like I kind of want that, like I want a new learning experience and sometimes by winning all the time I'm not really learning and I'm not. There's no progression there. So I try to put myself in situations where it's going to be hard to win and that's and I actually like that now, like I really, really really like that now, whereas I don't know, five, 10 years ago I would not, that would not be me, I would be throwing my toys out the pram if we lost. So, yeah, but I really like that.

Speaker 1: 34:12

And I'm almost like that in business now as well. I'm like, um, let's, let's fail fast, let's fail fast so we can learn right. When you first started, your business, ventures was in the height of your competitive period, as you know. As we're saying, 18 months in and you find yourself in the world champs, on nationals worlds for netball and in touch as well. How has your approach to business then changed? Do you think, over this sort of 11 year period of running sport?

Speaker 2: 34:36

I think it's changed, because what I've learned is that you need to surround yourself and most likely hire the best that you can, and I used to worry that I would hire a coach that would be better than me and the school would want them over me or at the beginning of the career, I was like always hiring female sports coaches because we're so underrepresented. But what I really learned was I am definitely now at the point where my favorite part of my job is motivating and inspiring my team, not being threatened by how amazing they are and just trying to make them as good as they can be and just have them as passionate about physical education as I am. And it took me a while to learn that. I think and I think that comes from probably all those competitive years of trying to make teams and be selected and you know you're competing against others until you're in the team and then you're working towards each other to get there. So I think I just can be very competitive at times and I think that's probably held me back until I could realize that you're only as good as the people around you. So that's definitely a big lesson learned and then I think, believe it or not.

Speaker 2: 35:41

My businesses have always grown when I'm not doing the doing so, when I'm on maternity leave or when I'm training for a big comp and my business is second priority. The business grows because I think sometimes I'm the bottleneck. Being a dominant personality, a control freak, it sometimes holds my business back. So I've definitely learned to let go and just to sit back and again, be strategic at the top and motivate and inspire others to to do the doing it's quite the turnaround, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 36:12

only taken 11 years I didn't hear it the first time. Tell me again. Tell me again 11 years later. Oh, I've got you. Well, I suppose we, you know, sport gives lots of lessons and you know I can hear the parallels as you tell the two sides, to you as an athlete, to you as a business owner. And now sport for you then has been, is enjoyment, is taking part and doing it. I don't know, you know, I suppose the bit that's going through my mind is well, that's okay, because you're an international and you're winning lots, so that's okay. So it makes it seem like, yeah, you're competitive, but you're not over the top, but you're still elite, right, still the best there. I don't know what my question is around that piece, but it does get me to the business side and it says to me well, when you think about your business, where do you want that to go? How far do you want that to reach?

Speaker 2: 37:12

So with Sporty Minis I would love to be in every region in the UK and potentially explore. But the one thing I have learned in business is the word patience, because I'm very ambitious, obviously, but I used to beat myself up when I didn't hit targets and almost change strategy all the time and that was definitely what's what's kept me back. And I think that whole strategy change comes from being a games player right like there's always a strategy to outwit an opponent or outwit an opposition. So I think that's probably been something I've taken into business which probably hasn't served me at times. So, patience, I need to be patient with my growth and I'm really happy recently changed from a franchise model to a business partnership model and absolutely love it. It suits me better, it suits our business better and I'm really excited to see where that's going to go.

Speaker 2: 38:00

And I guess we've been 11 years and I would love to have this legacy for my girls to take over if that's something they want to do. But if not, I know that I'm giving opportunities to those passionate about school physical activity and I would continue to do that. They won't get opportunities other places and I know I can offer that to them and we make such an impact to the, we make such an impact to the children and we are trying to make an impact to the industry. We're trying to see, have governments see and the earliest sectors see, that daily physical education is very, very important. You know, running outside is important, but also structured is also very important for physical, emotional and social well-being.

Speaker 2: 38:36

So that's kind of the goals for Sporting Minis and I guess I'm kind of stepping up into a role of being a leader, a keynote speaker around AI, a role of being a leader, a keynote speaker, around AI. I would love to keep trying to stay in the world of AI for education, because education is kind of where I'm always at and I'd just love to see where that takes me. I think we are going into new amazing times and with all of my I guess high-performance experiences, along with all my business experiences and my passion for AI technology, I think I just go out and help who I can help, whoever wants to be helped that day. How can I help you?

Speaker 1: 39:14

what lovely way of saying it, but it is. It's good though. It's good because you, you know you've there is obviously that business focus and I can I can hear that and that growth, the impact is what really comes out strongest as I listen to you. The impact you you want to have on, I'll say, society right so, but the children in society, which I think is is really noble and and it sounds a lot more and it honestly it sounds like being there and doing it is what motivates you. Again, rather than it being this huge I need to be a $50 billion business it's more about that impact and across the regions.

Speaker 2: 39:52

Umber doesn't appeal to me. I mean my partner might get a little annoyed at me at times that I'm not driven by the money, but I also appreciate that the money drives the growth. So I'm not under any illusions. You know, money is freedom and money is opportunities. So I'm definitely aligned from that perspective. It's just that I would rather be helping those that need to be helped than selling my soul. It's just the way I've always been.

Speaker 1: 40:18

Yeah, fair call, fair call. So when you think about athletes who I guess are going on a I don't know if it's a similar path, but I think it's athletes who are looking at you, know you? Actually, the way I'm thinking about it is, you felt, as a tri-career but as an athlete, that you were being held back by your job, by the career choice, that professional career choice that you had made, and you then struck out, quit, quit and boom, went by yourself and set this business and pushed your career to great heights. When you think of other athletes, then, who are not actually, yeah, who are not professional and therefore do have these jobs, what guidance, advice would you give to them? You know, as they think about, you know, funding their career and supporting themselves in that life alongside sport.

Speaker 2: 41:07

I think what I would say is we live in a world of opportunities and often, reflecting on your strengths, that you've got now and all the things you've done to get you where you are now really gives you confidence to go. Okay, do I want to be plateauing along here or do I want to step up and make a decision about you know, what am I capable of? Because I think often many of us get stuck in wanting to take the next step in any direction, whether it's school or whether it's career or whether it's a business. It's the doubt and fear and judgment you go oh, what if we fail and people think of this, of us? Or what if I can't do it and actually no one can tell you to go and do it?

Speaker 2: 41:56

You, it all comes from within you, and I think the best way to be able to give yourself confidence enough is to look back at all your achievements and really celebrate all the small and big wins like big or small doesn't matter, they're all relevant and then just think what did I do to get to where I am now?

Speaker 2: 42:15

What experiences did I have? And sometimes that alone you think actually, yeah, I am really good at talking to people and being able to convince somebody to join me, or I am really good at organizing and doing events and I'm I am really good at being able to stand up in front of people like you just all of the experiences you have from being an athlete. You'll pick them up and you'll go yeah, perfect, that will. I know that I can do those and and whatever steps I take next, what's the worst that's going to happen? You win or you lose, and if you win, great. If you lose, you still won, because you learned something like there's no, there's no failing in life. The only failure is not taking that step wonderful, wonderfully said, marnie.

Speaker 1: 43:00

That's, that's good and and look, I think it is. You know, like you say, it's about that reflecting on your strengths, reflecting on what got you here. You know, like you say, it's about that reflecting on your strengths, reflecting on what got you here. You know what got you to this moment where you have this decision to make. And you know, I like the way you said, you want to just plateau and I guess, in some respects, regret not giving it a shot, not giving it a go and sort of accepting a failure before you even start. That's probably not what got you to that decision in the first place, so don't let it stop you from moving forward now no, and we do that in sport.

Speaker 2: 43:31

We do, we can do that in sport, but often if you're competitive enough not to get over it. So when I was playing rugby, it's like if I'm going in thinking I'm going to get hurt in a tackle or I'm going to get injured, I'm going to get hurt, injured in a tackle. You can't go in with the mindset of failure or doubt or fear, and you can't do that on the pitch. So guess what? You can't do that in life either. And when you realize and you catch yourself, that's when you need to have some self-confidence and be able to tell yourself that there's no losing here. We never lose that's it.

Speaker 1: 44:02

We don't lose, we learn. That's it. Look, marnie, it's been great just getting your story, getting a bit of your perspective over the past sort of 50 or so minutes, and look, there are going to be those listening who are going to want to pick up and follow your journey a little bit more. Where's the best place to find you and follow your story?

Speaker 2: 44:22

Yeah, so I'm quite active on LinkedIn. It's probably the platform that I'm mostly active on. So it's marnie will's entrepreneur. And then my business accounts are sporty minis uk on insta and business with ai underscore strategist on insta as well. But I mean you could come and find my personal account on insta if you like. You just see all my little girls. It's just family life there, really, with a bit of sport added in there, but yeah awesome look.

Speaker 1: 44:48

Marnie, thank you very much for well bringing your perspective on well as I go through on here and finding that career clarity, and I think you've given some great hints and tips for myself and others to take forward, so thanks very much oh, thanks, ryan, it's been a privilege thank you for listening to the second win podcast.

Speaker 1: 45:06

We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwinio for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy Until next time.