Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves
Former professional footballer Ryan Gonsalves dives deep into the unique challenges and triumphs of transitioning from elite sports to fulfilling careers. Through candid conversations with athletes, the Career Clarity Podcast explores their inspiring journeys, uncovering lessons on identity, resilience, and reinvention. Whether you're an athlete or simply seeking inspiration for your next chapter, this podcast will empower you to unleash your second wind.
Ryan Gonsalves transitioned from professional football with Huddersfield Town in the English Footbaal League, to a career in financial services by leveraging his adaptability, transferable skills, and willingness to embrace new opportunities.
While playing semi-professional football, he pursued education and began working at GE Money Capital Bank, where he gained global experience and developed expertise in Lean Six Sigma and process improvement. His sports background often helped him stand out during interviews, creating memorable connections with hiring managers.
Later, Ryan joined HSBC in Hong Kong, where he worked for nearly a decade in consumer banking, focusing on global projects such as researching homeownership behaviors. His ability to understand consumer insights and behavior became a cornerstone of his success in the financial sector. After over 20 years in banking (including back in Australia at AMP, Westpac, COmmenwealth Bank and NSW Treasury, Ryan transitioned into career coaching, inspired by helping fellow athletes navigate their post-sports careers.
Ready to take the next step? Connect with Ryan at letschat@2ndwind.io.
Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves
149: Danielle Jordan-Taft - The Power of Proving Yourself and Success Redefined
From hiding handwritten goals under her mattress at age 12 to representing England in netball and later Jamaica in rugby, Danielle shares the defining moments that shaped her unique approach to achievement. She vividly recounts the emotional journey of childhood trials that became her catalyst for success—a painful rejection that transformed into an unwavering determination to prove herself worthy in everything she attempted.
In this epsiode, we talk about:
- Juggling multiple roles including netball at high level, rugby for Jamaica in both sevens and fifteens, and three separate businesses
- Creating a personal goal-setting system at age 12, writing goals and hiding them under her mattress as promises to herself
- Using the skills learned in sports—resilience, leadership, communication—to succeed in business environments
- Overcoming rejection in netball trials and using that experience as motivation to prove doubters wrong
- Transitioning from netball to rugby later in life and representing Jamaica internationally
- Building businesses based on her skills rather than accepting full-time employment to maintain flexibility
- Developing a formula for success: ability (continuous learning) multiplied by effort (doing the extras) multiplied by attitude
- Finding purpose in sharing her experiences through motivational speaking and coaching workshops
Loved the episode? Drop us a review & share your biggest takeaway!
Ready to explore your own second act after sport? Connect with Ryan Gonsalves and the 2NDWind Academy to discover how your athletic experience can become your professional advantage here: www.2ndwind.io
And you know, as you said, you had this dream in sport and you knew where that wanted to take you representing your country. Then I'll say traditional for the career in sales. What aspirations did you have in there?
Speaker 2:So first of all, it was money, because I had to have a gym membership to train outside when you leave school and things like that. You don't have it, so in my mind, I needed to pay for a gym membership. I also jugguggled my personal life, like having fun and going out with my mates, and then on top of that, I had to pay for travel to get to and from my netball games and tournaments, if I wanted, because I still to this day, someone phones me and goes I've got a netball game, it's in an hour, can you be there? Yes, I'll find a way, because I never say no to sport, I'll always get there.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and then it was obviously I had to pass my driving test, I had to pay for my lessons, I had to buy a car and my insurance. I did it all myself, so I had to have the job, and sales was the quickest way to earn money, because when you're at early career stages your salary is going to be low, but with sales you can amplify that by hitting targets and getting bonuses.
Speaker 1:Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people after all. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Danielle, welcome to the Second Moon Academy podcast show, all about career clarity. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I am actually looking forward to our show because I think, just from a sporting perspective, you're going to be really interesting to just understand what's going on in your world and going through your mind. But then also, as I've noticed, you have a heat press and all sorts of stuff next to you which we're going to have to delve into as well.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, I have a lot going on.
Speaker 1:Juggling a lot. Yes, yeah, juggling a lot and hopefully a lot of balance in there as well, and so you feel things are somewhat worked. She says, shaking her head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe Balance is probably one thing I need to focus on. That I never do, but you can be the judge of that.
Speaker 1:We'll step into that a little bit. I guess for those watching, listening, and indeed for myself as as well, it's always good to hear it. Give us an infomercial, give us a story. What are you up to about what you're doing nowadays? What are you balancing, I should say okay, I play two sports.
Speaker 2:I play netball at high level, still really enjoy it. I've played since the age of six. I also play rugby for jamaica in both disciplines sevens and fifteens. I have three businesses. I have two online platforms one's a personalized dog accessory brand and one is a personalized kids wear brand and they sell online platforms. They sell through retailers and on top of that I also do business consulting, or I use the guise of business consulting.
Speaker 2:So when I left my full-time job I decided to work off of my skillset because I had a lot of offers to be hired full-time and I didn't want to do that because I wanted to juggle everything else. So I go into people's businesses and I do business transformation. So it can be anything from hiring, firing, training, coaching, strategy writing, restructuring, rebranding, anything really cost savings, and then literally how do I grow my business, which I really really enjoy. So I do that two days a week. But within that consultancy umbrella that I use, I also do motivational speaking coaching workshops and that can range from an actual coaching session for kids in rugby or a classroom base where we talk about leadership skillset or the skills I learned in sport. Basically that transition naturally into business and life and that's kind of what I try and preach, because I talk very much in sports analogies or sport terminology. But for me that's why I was successful in business, because I learned all of that from sport and that was all I knew and I then chanced it in the business world and I think it really worked.
Speaker 2:So, yes, I go to primary schools, secondary schools, corporate events and you know, I basically just fine-tune those workshops and I'm always talking about the same thing. It's always resilience, leadership, communication key factors in business and sport and schools that people want to talk about. So I just make it fun. They involve netballs, rugby balls, a bit of fitness in there, force people into situate, force. She says I kind of manipulate a situation. So we play a game where they learn they naturally will use leadership skills or communication skills, but in a fun format where they're not consciously thinking about it, and then when we go in the classroom we'll talk about what skills did we just use? And they all think the managers are going to be the natural leaders, when actually you find some absolute gems in the other people who are, who think they're just a customer service or anyway. So yeah, so I really enjoy that side of it as well. So yeah, business consulting, two businesses and two, lots of sports. In a nutshell, that's it. So two businesses and two, lots of sports.
Speaker 1:In a nutshell, that's it. So many things seem to come in twos for you there and that I can get now why we're talking about. Is it juggling, is it balancing? Two sports, two businesses. But what you did mention there was, I guess, the consistency that runs through them are the types of skills you said there was resilience or leadership or perhaps problem solving. When you started the businesses, did you recognize that those were skills that were relevant in the business, a business place as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. I recognized them way before I went solo. So I've worked in like the hotel industry, the health and fitness industry and went all the way up to sales director. I was acting managing director for a sportswear brand for quite a few years.
Speaker 2:Whilst how I look at things, how my brain works, sport is what I always wanted to be in a full-time athlete. Both sports I've chosen or in for the countries I've played for it, it's always been non-funded, so it's always had to be, or how other people describe it as a hobby, for me it's the everything, and work was always secondary, and I probably just don't tell people that that's how I thought about it. What I'm trying to say is, throughout my life that, and well aware that, I learned how to be a good team player, how to work individually, how to do my own job, how to support someone else in doing their job, how to be resilient All of those things I know I learned from sport. And then, as soon as I go into a boardroom, to me that's easy Sitting in a room with loads of people and giving them an idea and backing yourself and having confidence and then going.
Speaker 2:I'll go and try it. I've got a plan, but then, knowing if plan A doesn't work, I have to find a way to fix it, because I do that on the netball court, I do that on the rugby pitch, so work for me. I'll say it is easy versus what I have to go through in sport. So every time I've challenged myself or tried to push forward for promotion, whatever it had been been, or that board meeting with these scary guys, it's never really been scary. I get there and think this is exciting, it's a new challenge, but I've got this because I can do that on the court or the pitch. I can definitely do this.
Speaker 1:So that's how my brain works and it sounds like you're very comfortable, I suppose, to see that's how you grow here, that's how your brain works, but physically it sounds like you're just as comfortable on, I'll say, any court or field, like you are, across the businesses school room to boardroom as well I go with yes in netball.
Speaker 2:So in rugby I've only been doing for the last three years. So the confidence I don't think get out in the pitch and know what my job is. I come with experience of international playing, so so when I play rugby now I'm with 22 year olds and really young girls I say it like that because obviously I want to be that age or I am that age so when I'm out on the pitch and when I wear what my role is, they look at me, look in their eyes and that fear when we're facing Canada or these really well-structured team, and I look at the girls and I can see straight away that they're better players than me. But they lose that confidence in the mindset that we had through training and I know that I'm there to go. Come on girls, I'm not bothered, let's go. And I play with the confidence and they deliver the performance to a degree. Whereas in netball you can put me probably I'd say almost any position and I'd confidently play it because I understand every single role, what it needs to do.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying I'm the best in every world I mean some over others, but right now I play in like a local league for fun with girls that I'm close with socially and the girl that runs it. She literally every week will one player down, or we've got a mishmash of players and it will just be shannon will play keeper, daniel play gold effect. They're not my first positions but I'm like, yeah, I will because I know what the job is, I know what I'm going to do and you get on with it competitive level. I'd only play my first and second position.
Speaker 1:Yeah but you've got that sense of adaptability and also, it sounds we can depend on you to put in a good shift and be that team player. Whilst I want to go back, I am interested, then, in this. What gave you the confidence to believe you could go? Now maybe we should go back, but I want to. I definitely want to have this chat about your belief to go from netball to rugby and do that at an elite level, because I'm curious, but I'm going to hold it. I'm going to say, right, I want to come back to it. I'm going to say right, I want to keep up to it, because I want to try and get this backstory a little bit more to see what was sport for you when you were growing up? Were you doing? Well, I have to assume you were doing about 50 different sports as you were growing up.
Speaker 2:I did throw myself into anything, so people that know me will laugh or roll their eyes at this, but I'm a very energetic person. The one thing I sacrifice to fit everything in is sleep, probably, but I feel like I don't really need it. As I've got older, I do say things like oh, I love my bed, I love sleep, and I've only found myself saying it recently, whereas when I say that to other people, they're like oh my God, I've been like that since the age of 14. Whereas I was always like I wanted to be the first up in my household because I wanted to know what everyone else was up. I wanted to get up to see what was going on. I cannot miss out. If my friend said they're going to be somewhere at six o'clock in the morning and we're all meant to be meeting at nine o'clock. Probably wouldn't go as early as six o'clock, but I want to be one of the first there because I want to know why they're there early. What am I going to miss out on? So I've just had lots of energy.
Speaker 2:With regards to sport, I think my dad in particular would go if it was his weekend as such, to have us. He'd be like we're going to take us swimming with the friends, because that'll wear her out, or on holiday, I'll take her down to the beach. I'll show her some mountains, tell her to start rock climbing or crabbing we used to do a lot of, but he'd always have to give me something to keep me occupied because otherwise next to you and I'd talk you to death or I'd be getting up and down just just full of energy. So I think my dad just was about variety. He'd throw me into everything and it was very strict. I feel like I remember this beach day. We used to go to Wales a lot with just dad only and my brother and I was really competitive with my brother. He's 18 months older than me but naturally good at everything, naturally academic, naturally fast, naturally fast sporty, just has everything and doesn't train.
Speaker 1:He's one of those you're saying that with love, right, I mean, but yeah, it's really good to you.
Speaker 2:Everything he did, I had to do or do better and I feel like throughout a whole life it was always a competition, so he would do something that was really easy and I'd always be playing catcher and those words used to come out of dad's head oh, you are 18 months younger and you are a girl and you are young all those things and I used to be like that's always the first thing. I think I was really competitive with this beach day. We just walked down to the beach with dad and a normal beach day and there was loads of things, loads of activities going on and there was this guy who was drawn a bit of a track, not very long, was just saying by age group. You pay 50p each person and you literally race each other. He obviously I don't know who he was Like I think back now I think that must have just been a random guy trying to make cash flow A great business idea.
Speaker 2:But we got there and it already started like there were people queuing up. So we were just watching and I was standing there and I was thinking I could beat her. So the first rate I can beat her. I could beat that girl and I was watching, so I race against my brother. So me and my brother were talking and my brother was like, oh yeah, you could definitely beat her. So we're having the same conversation. So I was like, dad, pay 50p, let me run. So he was like, well, let's see what race is next.
Speaker 2:And I must have been. I reckon I was probably eight, nine, I could have been, and whatever it was, it was the age group above that were about to go. So my dad was like I went to go and he was like no, he said this isn't your age group. He said you're only going to lose. So I looked at him and I said let's be case, dad, my age group was the group before, so I've missed it. I said just let me run. So he was like okay, I remember him putting his hand in his pocket.
Speaker 2:He got the 50p axe he used to carry a range and I got in this line and I could see my brother, because that was the great thing, me and my brother were really competitive and had to beat each other, so he wouldn't back me, but if I did so it was against the people. He had my back so I could see his face and he was sizing people up and he was like nodding, like he checked them all out and in his opinion. I looked at him and he was like you've got this sort of thing, so that confidence is there. So I just remembered literally waiting for him to say he had a little gun tap and off it bang. And I just started running and I could feel these girls and I thought, oh my god, this is way harder than I thought. And I was just pumping my legs, come on. And I ended up drawing with another girl. But that was okay because at first I was really annoyed but my brother went. She's older than you so she should have smashed you, but that was amazing high five, so I was thrilled.
Speaker 2:So it's just little things like that. I know dad would just be like and I was like daddy, you're happy? And he bought us an ice cream. So to me that was, I ticked a box, one scenario that I remember because it was just the joy of winning, you know, looking at my dad who was proud of me. It was all those moments that then got repeated in life, that, for some reason, I remember that and I don't even know why I remember if I just remember the joy, my brother having my back, my dad being proud and being rewarded with an ice cream. With that feeling, that adrenaline feeling, I go through all the time that I love even just how you describe it.
Speaker 1:It is all you've described what the beauty of sport is there competing, being a bit of an underdog, being supported by family, loved ones, and getting the reward at the end. You've just described it wonderfully, so that was good.
Speaker 2:I should be on a beach really, are you right?
Speaker 1:there's loads of people who do that in australia that's a wonderful story because it sounds like it gives you that taste of sport, that taste of competing, and so, as you continue to grow, when did you and I suppose I'm leading a little bit towards netball? But when did you start to realise I really enjoy netball?
Speaker 2:I was at primary school and my brother was playing the trumpet and again, don't forget, he's older than me. I wanted to play the trumpet because he did. So I went into this trumpet trial and I only had one tooth at the time. I had one second tooth come through and not the other one, so I had this gap. I don't know if it's true or whether the trumpet teacher didn't like me, who knows but my brother used to play it quite a lot, so he was naturally academic but was north. I had to work really hard and was the good kids that's how it was at school a bit of a mischievous edge. So he told me afterwards the trumpet teacher doesn't like me because I mess around and he wants me to play the trumpet but I don't want to play, whereas I wanted to play the trumpet and he didn't want me to play.
Speaker 2:Anyway, went into this trumpet lesson, did the trial and my friends got in and I didn't as such. So I was devastated. So I came home and it was the one thing I was holding on to crying about to my dad, and my dad used to just have this solutions driven needs to fix everything all the time. So I just remember, the next day he drove me to school and went into reception and spoke to the headmistress and said okay, I don't care what instrument she plays, but we need to give her an instrument, because you do realise that she'll go on about this and because her brother does it, she needs something to stimulate. And you know, that was the conversation, as I remember it, unparalleled. So the teacher went look, he's at full capacity.
Speaker 2:I'm aware that this happened because she was upset yesterday and spoke to me herself. We that this happened because she was upset yesterday and spoke to me herself. We'll put her into violin. So I could. I would have only been gosh five years old, you know. This is where I remember this competitive edge. So, yeah, we can put her into the violin. But violin started three weeks ago and my dad was like it won't bother her, put her in, it's fine, let's get her into those lessons. So I started playing the violin and then I ended up being the best violin player. I absolutely loved that as well. Did you know? I waffled that much? What was the question? Getting into netball? So it was one of the Mario.
Speaker 1:I'm just enjoying it, Keep going. So what were you playing in the? No, keep going.
Speaker 2:I loved the violin and I was the best.
Speaker 1:Just so you know, that's a competition composition into that lesson and everyone could play twinkle, twinkle little star and I was like I was friendly, yeah, yeah, but at five. I'm just guessing that this anyway, I'm sure it was beautiful, it was yeah, it was a.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that as well because I got there and I thought, because dad was like, if you don't, if you end up being rubbish, I'm not you're coming out of it was that threat. So I was like I'll be fine. When I got in there it was like how do you hold a violin? It is I don't, it's not like the trumpet that I was so down for and knew what I was doing. Anyway, violin was a long story short, but I ended up I'd practice every single night. I'd like wind my dad up because I'd be playing it every morning, every night, because I had to catch up with the other girls, but I soon overtook.
Speaker 2:Anyway, the moral of this story is my brother used to play football. He was in the football team, this kids squad, at school, and I used to have to stay and wait. So dad would never come and collect one of us without the other. So if he had something after school I'd have to sit and watch and wait, and vice versa. So I used to always have to sit out in the field while all the boys played football, but none of my friends were there. So then the coach one time just was like oh, get a ball, danny, join in the skill session or whatever. So then I'd do that. Then I'd just be like, oh, can't I have a run around with them, I'll be on my brother's team. And he was like, yeah, why not? So I got involved in football and I started to enjoy it and I don't remember the football enjoyment as much, but dad reminds me of this, but it was my brother's thing. So my brother had got upset when he got home and said, listen, football's my thing. And now Danielle's been let and she's the only girl playing. It's not fair, blah, blah, blah. So dad was like I'll deal with it, spoke to the coach and the coach said she's not hurting anyone, she's actually quite good, let's keep her in now. But she can't play any matches, which I didn't know. So then, when the first match came along, I was devastated and again home crying to dad why can't I play the match? I'm better than this person, I'm scoring all the goals.
Speaker 2:I overheard a conversation where they were talking about the fact she's a girl. Girls can't play football because obviously I'm old and back in the day that was acceptable. Girls can't play football. She's also too young. She's, you know, two years academic years younger than her brother and I heard them having this debate and then another teacher got involved again. This was like an early morning on the way to school listening to all these really tall grown-ups. So then the teacher went what about netball?
Speaker 2:So the problem was is that I think I was five, six and we didn't start the sport until the next year, whatever academic year it was. So they were like she can play netball, we can put her in, she can stay in the after club for netball if you want her to, but she won't be able to play matches until next year because she's not old enough. So dad was like yep, don't care, put her in it, it'll just wear her out, it's good. So I was playing with at the time and then her younger sister was in my year, so she used to stay behind and get involved as well, but I was playing with this year ahead and then it was the same mentality who's the best netball player? Here she is, what does she do? That I don't do, I'm going to copy.
Speaker 2:And I got really competitive with it because I thought to me these were who were playing with. It didn't matter the age, or I definitely didn't think about it, in my opinion, and I just had to be better than them. And then this coach took me under her wing and started going there's a tournament, will Daniel play? Let's bring her in. And I don't know what, how it happened with age, because I played a year ahead for a really long time. She kept taking me to more and more tournaments where I'd play with my friend's older sister, because I was good enough and for me I feel like that pushed my ability and made me play better, especially when I went into my age group, because then to me it was easy. But yeah, so the rest is history and I carried on playing from there, but yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:It's funny, I know. For me when I be getting into football was because I had to follow my big brother, well two years older than me, and it was, yeah, my mum, living with just my mum, but it was well. If you want to do sport, you have to go with him, so I did and I was again dragged up the age groups, because we were competing that year or two years up.
Speaker 1:And then, yeah, suddenly you fall into your own age group and to me it was like this is just slower. I'm, yeah, I'm faster than him. Man, wow, give a shoulder bow and they go flying. They're not bigger than wow, this is yeah. Then it is. And again, just then, things went from strength to strength yeah, that's how I feel, for sure so when you dropped into your own age around, when was that, and when did you then realize you were going to be good?
Speaker 2:that's a. That's such a good question because, unfortunately, I hate saying this out loud. Because, again, when I say this out loud to what I call a group of friends and I, by the half, always questions are they friends if this is how they react? But there's a lot of jealousy in netball, for sure. But when I'm in a group of friends and you're asking me, when did I realize I was good, I went in with an attitude of I had to be the best, because what's the point in playing or competing with my brother for so many years, everything I've done, I've always looked at right, who's the best? How do I get as good as them?
Speaker 2:Otherwise, what's point in playing when you move into a setup where there's a first, second and third team, what's the point in playing if you're not in the first team or you're not, everything you do is not to work to get into the first team. And I don't know where the mentality necessarily came from. The more I talk about this, the more I start discovering more about myself. But yeah, and I still to this day, when you get involved in something, I hear this all the time taking part, that matters. But straight away I'm like okay, so taking part. That matters, but I want to be in the first team. So how do I travel for the first team?
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter what people say to me, I've got to go for the best and I am accepting of the fact. Sometimes I'm not the best, so you'll get put in. The second or the third team is to get to the first team. So what have I got to do? How long will it take? What have I got to do outside of it? And that whole process starts with work stop the chance of applied force sport.
Speaker 2:So yeah it. I don't think there was ever a moment where I started realizing I was good. I just always had to be in that top team and it's age really that takes you, because you have to be a certain age to make eng England or the county squad. So it was always my age held me back, not my ability, in my opinion, and not my desire, anything. I don't know that answer and so then.
Speaker 1:So your age started to allow you to move into the reps and and start competing then at a national, coming towards that elite level. Where did you want Netball to take you?
Speaker 2:So at the age of 12, I started writing a goals list. I started to realize that I wanted stuff and I guess subconsciously, I used what I now consciously know as my process as such to get what I want. So I used to write myself a list of. I still do it to this day. I've got a list in front of me for today. But this is where the weird, unique me comes in. But I used to. It wasn't anyone that ever said it to me. I just one day thought what do I want? I need to organize it because I've always done so much.
Speaker 2:I've always juggled going to see my friends, the swim stuff that dad used to take me to my actual sports school, all these things, seeing the family, all those kind of things. So I used to just, I think for me it was just a way of organizing my own brain. So I used to sit down and write this goals list and I used to say by the end of this year, what do I need to tick off? It was around 12. And I just significantly remember this one because I never let go of it until I made England, and on that list it was I wanted to play netball for England and that was a goal. And that goal got further away as the years went on, but the desire for it got what's the word? Fiercer, like my passion for it got hotter and hotter. I don't know how to describe it. I wanted it more and more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was rude. The further it got away in my mind, the more I wanted it, if that makes sense. So the more people said, oh, you passed it. Or as I got older, the more I thought, oh, my god, I'm not taking it off the list.
Speaker 2:And my this list I used to write now I now call it a goals list, but this list I used to write my promise to myself. I'd fold it up into a little square and I'd hide it under my bed, under the mattress, and at the end of the year I knew what was on there because I'd memorise it. But at the end of the year I'd take it out and I'd tick it off to say why did you put it under your mattress? Because nobody else could see it, because I didn't want anyone to make fun, do it. I couldn't do the things. I meant, didn't want anyone to mock it.
Speaker 2:If you mocked it I'd probably second guess it, whereas this list I could write, it would stay up here and I'd never say it out loud, even though obviously everyone knew I wanted. I would want anyone knew me back then would have said, yeah, danielle wants to play for Netball Brinkland, or people would know those things about me, so obviously I'd have to say it sometimes or talk about it, but I think for me it was what I needed to achieve and what meant something to me, and something I had to keep moving and ticking off. It's that tick Again. Now I understand what my trigger is and what makes me push it all out and go for these things that are unreachable. I guess I understand why I do that process.
Speaker 2:I had to achieve things each year to feel okay or to feel, yes, longed yeah so yeah, anyway, wrote this list and ticked it off and my promise is at the end of the year. If there's anything on that list that I didn't do anything proactive to get close to, I wasn't allowed to roll it over, so that used to hold me accountable. So, for example, if I want to make the England team and I know I wasn't allowed to roll it over, so that used to hold me accountable. So, for example, if I want to make the England team and I know I wasn't going to make it till I was in my 20s or whatever, because that's how everyone else did it, I just had to make sure that I was playing at the top level. Or I was getting feedback from a coach to say you're going to be in the first team next year or to get in the first team.
Speaker 2:We have to achieve this and I knew I was going back for a one-to-one to go. When will that happen? Or how will that happen? So if I could tick that box or I'd put myself out to trial for a team that everyone's, you can't travel that team, you're not good enough. I'm going to go and trial, even if I don't think I'm going to make the squad. I'm going to trial because I know I'm going to learn. I'm going to see what the standard is. I'm going to learn, like that. So on that list there was all sorts of things. There was things to do with boys, probably everything to do in my life that I wanted to achieve. Whatever it was on that list and, like I said, if I was proactively working towards it, it was allowed to roll over to the next year, which the thing every year I did, I rolled it over where did the inspiration for that process come from?
Speaker 2:I wouldn't use the word inspiration. I think it's what I taught. It's like a survival for me. This is what I struggled to talk about. So I do these motivational talks and I went to a networking event once.
Speaker 2:Well, started going to networking event and when I went there I knew that I'd be interesting, because you have these, these printouts, or the first thing when you have. It's like speed dating, isn't it in the networking world where you have to meet someone and say here's the thing I do, shall we talk to each other a bit more? So I knew I'd be interesting because I played netball for england and I played rugby for jamaica. Before that it was. And I've got these businesses and I've been a managing director here.
Speaker 2:So I knew I had stuff that was interesting to say, and this was only a few years ago that I consciously started to, probably four years ago. Five years ago, max, I started to realize this is how I work and this is what makes me tick, which is why I started to share it, because I realized it unique and it helps people. But when I was in these networking events, the next question was pretty much what's your superpower? So I used to be like you'd laugh it off. And what do you mean? What's supposed to? What were you born with? Because I can't be an elite athlete in two sports. I can't run a business.
Speaker 2:I can't do this. And you've got a child and all this kind of stuff. How are you juggling it all? You must have been born with something everyone else hasn't, and they're very serious about this.
Speaker 2:So after laughing for a moment I was like. My response, humbly and honestly, was I am just like you. If you did, or if you wanted it as much as I did, I think that you could achieve it. You just got to work hard. But but that started to become I don't know whether it was patronizing or just a really dissatisfying response.
Speaker 1:Dissatisfying. It's like no, come on, there's more, there's a superpower, there's something there.
Speaker 2:There's something and I'd think what is it that they're waiting for me to say? I kept thinking, thinking what do other athletes say, or what do people in my position say to that response and I always used to say they used to be like so you think I could do what you do? And I'd be like, yeah, if you want it, bad enough, you could have it. And, like I said, it would be a conversation stopper or they'd get bored or they'd move on to somebody else. And I used to think, oh no, I need these people to be engaged. I'm at a networking event. So it made me think. And then a couple of people met me and we talked for longer and they get to know me and have patience to hear the whole story. And this one woman was like I want you to present in Malta.
Speaker 1:So that's why I said yes we're going to Malta, we're going to present that always I'd go as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. I will not talk about me. So I've been presenting to people for years, since university. I've absolutely loved being able to voice my opinion loudly so everybody listens and the room stops.
Speaker 2:But if you ask me, to talk about myself as much as people laugh and joke that I love talking about myself. It's the worst thing ever and I still struggle with it and work myself up and have a nervous breakdown afterwards. But anyway, always the way I started thinking in this presentation, how do I talk about myself? But how do I make that thing that they're all looking for from me worthwhile? So I started, I sat down and I was having a conversation with.
Speaker 2:I've got three friends that are really close One girl I went to school with all the way through the years in university. Another friend is my best friend in netball and then my other friend is my best friend from work. And there's three of them and I keep them close and they're never together in one place but I use them for different things. Emotionally they're all very different, but perfect for me and I remember having conversations with each of them and it was about they just kept asking me questions but why do you do it, danny? Why do you kill yourself? Because the one that plays it, she's naturally good and she probably didn't push herself as hard as me. I don't want to take anything away from her because she worked hard, but she doesn't want it as much as me she would like. If I'm not good enough and I'm dropped, I'll just move on to something else. We're like no, got to go again. They just started pressing me. But why do you do that? Why does it matter so much? And that's when I sat and I thought about it and I thought it stems back to my childhood, for sure. So this is where I struggled to talk about this. My mom was an alcoholic and we didn't have oh God, I get emotional so quickly with this. So I'm emotionally sensitive, just so you know. Everyone calls me emotionally sensitive because I don't cry for anything and I don't cry for normal things. But if I talk about this, for some reason, there's emotion there that I don't want to fix. Yeah, if I fix it, I won't be able to do what I do this whole process. But it's really difficult to talk about and I've forced myself to do it because I think people resonate with it. But yeah, my mum was an alcoholic and very much a narcissist, which I realized as I got older. I didn't know that at all. It was my normal. So to me this was very normal.
Speaker 2:My dad was just really strict. He was an MD of a pharmaceutical business. Everything to him was about being successful and he did it very naturally and did it very well. I feel like he he was the competitive one because he never let us win. If he challenged us with anything, he'd always win to teach us a lesson, and the day we won was enough. That was the day he's done his job. It was that relationship. So if we were sick or too tired to get up which was not really for me he'd force us to go to training. As long as we went to training, even if he disappeared for a week with work or whatever, he'd always come back and go. But did you go to training, did you? If you didn't, it would be punished for that. Yeah, but my leg was hanking off and I was really ill. But did you think it was something like that? So we never I never missed training. Or if I promised to be somewhere, I'd always be there. It's that really strict relationship. But yes, I remember this one moment where I made the promise to myself and this is why I talk about this one particular moment, but there were lots of them.
Speaker 2:Gawne must have known that my mum was an alcoholic and that home life was very different to everyone else's and I knew it was different because I always wanted to be at everyone else's house. So this lady took me under her wing for netball. I'd sleep at hers all the time. I used to get to her house really early before their whole household woke up. I was like their alarm clock. So I'd ring the doorbell.
Speaker 2:The first child she had, five kids the first one would wake up and open the door. Let me in. I'd start a ball of kettle, I'd eat their bananas and make myself some toast while they were all in the shower getting ready and me waiting for my mate to walk to school. But she let me do that. I think to myself how cheeky I was, eating all her food for her own kids woke up and ate food and I have given back. I go and thank her every day she has. I knew that I needed other families because that was normal to me. Their family was normal like the chaos of five kids all trying to get breakfast and get out of the house on time. I loved sitting there just watching them. How are you not dressed yet? Because I was already dressed for school and I'd had my shower room.
Speaker 2:I'd walked 15 minutes down the banana I'd stolen and watch all of this kales and loved it, and the same after school, like I'd go to theirs after school before I caught the bus home.
Speaker 2:She'd already cooked dinner. So she'd be like oh, there's some food for you. So I'd eat a bit of dinner there, because when I got home it was there's a tin of hot dog sausages if you want to open and put them in the microwave, or there's a tin of sweet corn you can warm up, or there's leftovers from yesterday's takeaway that you can warm up. It was never really a sit down, let's have dinner together.
Speaker 2:It was always like you've forgotten to feed us, or there's no food or there's yeah in the fridge or here's a pound or two pound, go and get some fish and chips. It was always a bit disjointed, so I used to love the smell of her cooking when I got there and the fact she'd always look at me and go I'd be like I'm going home now. I've just popped in to say hi, and she'd be like, do you want a bowl of cottage tie or whatever it was? And I'd be like yes, and I'd just like quickly eat it. And then I'd be like I'm going now and I'd have to go home to do my homework.
Speaker 2:Blah blah anyway, but yeah. So I knew that everything was very different. But the teachers at school in my secondary school were unreal because they used to keep me busy the same way my dad did. I remember them always going oh, we've got this club after school. Do you want to do it, danny? I'll be like yeah, because anything to avoid going home was perfectly. You've got to come in at half past seven before everyone else. Do you want want to come and do it? Yeah, yeah, I'll be there and I do that as well. So I remember they used to go oh, daniel will be in the sports team for this. I used to play hockey, netball, swim club. I'm rubbish at swimming. I can swim, but I don't like it. You can swim, you're not an Olympian but you can swim.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got the badges. That was my goal. I had to get the badges, yes. So when teachers used to put me into stuff and netball, I know I was good and I used to love it and everyone wanted me on their team and I used to pick my best mates who weren't good at netball to be on my team and go, don't worry, I'll win it for us. And I'd do everyone's job at centre and loved it. And I remember my teachers approaching me saying we've got these county trials. This was like I think I was 14. We've got these county trials for under 16. Do you? Are you resonating with this?
Speaker 1:I'm resonating with it, but I'm also loving the story, so I'm loving. We're getting three or four different things from me, so please, teacher talk. I'm just learning, I'm leaning back and enjoying, so please keep going yeah, so the teacher.
Speaker 2:I was in this room with two teachers that I loved them. They were my PE teachers. Anyone loves your PE teachers, but they really adored me and gave me lots of opportunity. How I see it now, but I remember them taking me in the room and going right, danny, there's this under 16 trial to, but we're allowed to send girls who are younger to it, but there's no pressure at all. We'd like to send you because you're good, but if you don't make it, we just want you to learn. It's an environment where you'll meet these coaches. You'll be on their radar. It's going to be a great learning process. But we want to understand, like, what happens there and what was a challenge. And I don't know whether they wanted me to bring that back to help them coaches or whatever. But I was just like, yeah, straight away. Yes, I'll do it. Yes, I've got to do it on a date. Yeah, it's on Saturday, so you've got to get yourself to here. So they gave me this piece of paper with the address on here's how you get there. So I'd spoken to someone else's parent. I two buses from where I live because it was on the other side of town. So I was like, yeah, I can do that, it's fine. They were like you're not going to go on your own. I was like, oh, I don't know, I'll speak to mum, which I never did.
Speaker 2:And I woke up that morning. I was so excited for this trial because I thought, oh my god, if I make this, if you made county back in my day, you were going to make England, so it was a stepping stone, so you had to do it. And I was in a position now where I was getting to do it sooner. I was going to get there earlier than everyone else. So for me, this was like I barely slept all week thinking about it. I was over preparing running sprints in the garden against my brother no jokes casting a ball at the wall, getting my coaches can you stay after school with me and just do this? And they were like you don't need to do these things. Anyway.
Speaker 2:I woke up that morning as I did first in the household. Everyone else was asleep my mom, my dad, was away somewhere as he was, and I had to catch these buses. So the first thing I did is snuck in my mom's room, because my dad had a trouser press and he used to take money out of his business trousers and put the cash like it was loose change on the top, fold his trousers up and put it in the trouser press. So we always knew there were pennies on there. So if I ever wanted to go meet my friend and go to the sweet shop, I'd steal 20p off there to get a 20p mix up or the bus fare. I used to steal off there so I thought I've got to get some bus fare. So I went in there, stole the 50p or whatever, because it was cheap on the bus back. I think an all-dayer was one pound, so I get an all-day ticket for every bus. I'm showing my age now, but is that old money no go on, I'm joking.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, stole my pound, or whatever it was, from my all-dayer and off I went with my netball trainer, like in my netball kit, ready to go, walked 15 minutes down the road it's like like the longest 15 minute at least 15 minute walk I could do for school got on the first bus and I sat upstairs on my own and thought it was really cool. Just it made me feel older. Got off this bus in the middle of Birmingham city centre, which was chaos and a bit scary. I just remember Birmingham being really busy, really noisy, and everything was way taller than me. I remember getting off thinking, oh my god, I'm normally ever only here with parents or family or friends, I'm on my own, and I felt really big.
Speaker 2:Found the next yeah, I hunted down for this bus stop. I had to this bus, I had to get on. So I got onto the next bus with my old day got off and it was pretty much over the road from where I had to be. So again, I felt like I was on like on clouds, walking on clouds. I was skipping in there. I was so excited. Anyway, as I was approaching, there were other people walking in with their parents. I was just smiling, I didn't know any of them said we're older than me and it was from the county, so it's all schools, not just mine, and I was the only one from my school.
Speaker 2:And I got into the building and I was like, oh, I'm here. It was like a leisure center. I'm here for this netball track. Yes, follow the corridor down. And I was always going through the corridor. They were like kids sitting on the floor putting their trainers on and parents talking to them. It's really noisy.
Speaker 2:And I was walking through and it gets dark because the windows. I just remember walking through and it was getting darker and scarier. And I heard this one, mum go, have you eaten that banana? You need that for energy. And I thought, oh, I haven't got a banana. And then I carried on walking. This other one mum went they're not your netball trainers, put your netball trainers on because they're better for grip. And I thought, oh, I'm wearing my netball trainers, I wear them for everything. I haven't got a second pair anyway. Walked through, registered, got a number written on my arm and my leg, went into the main hall and sat on my own and that's when I started realizing, oh, my god, I am on my own because other people were in groups of friends.
Speaker 2:Like I said, some people had both their parents there or sisters and brothers, or at least one parent, and I thought I started to start overthinking things. I thought, oh no, I love netball, I'll be fine, I'll be fine, went into this trial anyway and it was really hard. I found it really it was. At that point it was the most challenging netball I'd ever played. It was hard and I was. I thought at the end of it like now I know how to analyze it, I would work, I put in a shift, I worked really hard and fitness was never a problem for me, and so I know that I would have worked really hard. But skill-wise I probably wasn't there because I'd already identified the girls I knew that were going to get through, that were better than me that we're doing things.
Speaker 2:So I kept thinking how I hadn't had to do my process so quickly, the conscious, the process of getting good. So I thought to myself, how can I show that I can do what she does now when I've not done that before? I've not met the ball that way, I've not intercepted a ball that way, or whatever it was. So I do. I do remember having a little bit of a mental panic about things and then talking to myself was inside my own head, having these big conversations about you need to do this. Oh, you didn't do it. Oh, I'm going on the next game in this position. I've got to change up what I'm doing. And there was so much going on. It was great.
Speaker 2:And it's Ruta Sinep, where you stand in a hall at the end and they call out your numbers. So they say, oh, if we call out your number, you stand over to the right-hand side of the office. Yes, you stay there in that group of rejects. So I'm standing there and I'm like I don't remember what my number was the first time, but anyway, I stood there and I was saying my number over and over in my head, like waiting for it to say at the same time when you repeat it over and over again, so 15. And then she's 15.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to say this number and then this girl would go, we'd applaud her. Then this girl would go and we'd applaud her. Then all of a sudden it went quiet and the coach kind of went and thank you very much to the rest of you, you're free to go, everyone else can you stay behind and can the parents, because we're going to tell you the next steps. So I said then I remember like literally a physical, like I didn't plan for this, like I didn't plan to not be taken over, have that conversation as I stood there and half of me thought I didn't know what to do next. So I remember I looked to the left and there were girls there and they were crying loudly. I looked to the other side and these girls were crying loudly but the parents were there. The parents had run over and started hugging them.
Speaker 2:So I felt I don't know if this is how I remember it.
Speaker 2:I felt like I was standing in the middle of this huge room with these girls who were way taller than me because, don't forget, they were older, I was shorter than them all being hugged and all of them crying, and I stood there and thought don't cry, danny, don't cry, danny, there's no one to hug you, don't cry. So I'm standing there for ages. It felt like forever thinking do I go and say to the coach have you got this right? Did you forget my number? All those things going through your there, this is embarrassing. So I ran to my bag and coat that was just in the corner of this room, ran out of the building to the bus stop and then stood there and the bus took forever to come forever and I'm just standing there. I still I must have been in shock because I just didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2:So the first bus came first bus felt like the bus must have been a 20 minute journey but it felt like an hour or so and I was thinking when am I going to get? I got into the city center, ran to the next bus stop. The bus took forever to come. There's people trying to be nice to me or have a conversation and I didn't want to talk to anyone because I had all this emotion that I thought if I talk I'm going to cry, whereas normally I'd talk to everybody and anybody.
Speaker 2:Got on the next bus again, it's probably a half an hour drive, probably a bit more, and I could see I'm at this first stop. Right, I've got five more stops. It was like that kind of feeling. Got to the top of my 15 minute walk and it was the longest walk of my life. I just felt like I couldn't move my legs. So it was getting, my house was getting further away and I just I don't know why this, I just remember it being like this worst journey. Anyway, got home, walked into the house and I was like mum, mum, where are you? Sort of thing, and I could hear the TV on in the back room. Like our dining room. We had two living rooms the good living room and the one we were allowed in, and she was in that room, another house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember in there. We lived in a Victorian house so the door handles were really high. So I just remember again like reaching for this door handle and she closed the door properly, which we never used to do, so I had to really turn this knob, and just little things like that. I remember everything because it was painful. I think, yeah, anyway, I walk into this room and my mom's sitting, I've got orange wallpaper, multicolored. We had a matching brown and orange sofa. That was horrific and I just remember I perched on the end of it with this big bowl of water and a colander with the potatoes in and she was peeling the potatoes old school with a knife, doing the things I used to admire and the pd was on in the background.
Speaker 2:She was watching one of her rubbish programs that I never used to understand, some sitcom or whatever and she looked at me angry and I knew she was going to be angry because hopefully I'd left the house, which I used to do all the time, and not tell her where I was until.
Speaker 2:I got back and I was like just started crying. I dropped my bag on the floor and I was like mum, I'd just been to this netball child. I blurted everything out really fast and I was like, and I didn't make it, and this is one of those, and she just froze and stared at me and I expected, I don't know. I think I thought she'd get up and hug me. I'd have that thug that everyone else that I was waiting for.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Hang on sorry. Take your time. Gosh, sorry, I remember her standing up, gosh, sorry, I think it's because I literally relive this moment.
Speaker 2:Every time I talk about it, I'm literally I can see my trainers. Like, looking down at my trainers, I can see the room and where everything was, the French windows that were open to the garden and the stereo player and the record player, that kind of stuff. You can see it all. Anyway. She stood up and she just got angry. She started shouting at me and she said player and the record player, that kind of stuff. You can see it all. Anyway. She stood up and, uh, she just got angry. She started shouting at me and she said where did you first of all? How did you? Where did you get the money from?
Speaker 2:So have you stolen the money off your dad's thing again? Why did you leave the house? You didn't tell me where you're going. Who told you to do this? You're so stupid. I could, if you should, if you would have told me, I would have have told you you wouldn't have done this. You're too young, you're not good enough. And all I remember is just this tirade of anger You're not going to that thing after school next week, you're staying in. And all this stuff of how she was punishing me. And I just remember it getting quieter and quieter as she got louder and I know I was just standing in this bubble and I was shocked. Yeah, that's not what you're meant to do. Anyway, she got bored of repeating herself and I'd definitely heard everything she said and she dismissed me because you can't walk away when you're getting in trouble in my household.
Speaker 1:You should stop listening.
Speaker 2:You listen, you can't walk away. So I waited until I was allowed to go and I ran up to my room and shut the door and I sat on my bed excuse me, sorry, I sat on my bed and I cried and I cried and I was angry. I was angry for thinking that the reaction would be different because I know better, I know I'm not allowed to take the money, I know I'm not allowed to go really that far on my own. No, normally I would have said something or asked permission and had to beg for a week that I, it would be fine for me to go and she would have let me go, but I didn't. I knew it was my fault and then, but then it was like a not, a not good and a feeling, a feeling of um, actually you didn't make it, and how am I going to?
Speaker 2:tell them like I'm embarrassed, how I can't go to school this week. How am I going to tell them? And all those things went through my head. And anyway, obviously my teacher wasn't upset with me. She reminded me because I said look, I didn't make it, I'm never doing it again, I'm not good enough. And that was it. My teacher was like danielle, we said to you that there's a possibility. You were going to get in. It would have been great if you did and a bonus. But you've got next year, you can do this again next year. And I was like I don't know, I don't think I'll ever go through that again. It was upsetting, it was embarrassing.
Speaker 2:I had all these emotions that probably I'd ignored before, that were really prevalent and amplified by what my mum was saying to me. And actually for weeks my mum used to do this thing and she still does it to this day where if we bumped into a family member or a friend, she'd be like this is Danielle, our daughter? Oh, she's in a mood at the moment. I used to think, no, I'm not. She's in a mood at the moment because she's grounded, because she went against me, my word, and she traveled and put herself in danger but she didn't make the netball team and she has these ambitions that are unachievable and she'd be telling the rest of the world.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, the whole world knew I didn't make this team and the embarrassment I had to relive that over and over and I just got angrier and angrier with that. Anyway, I did stop applying myself, I think for a short period, where I went through this emotion of I'm not going to. I don't want to be in that situation, I don't want to have that conversation with my. I need to avoid that uncomfortableness.
Speaker 2:I don't want to embarrass myself and not be good enough. So I did, I withdrew, I think for a while I was quieter at school and I remember teachers trying to encourage me and I'd be like I used to make an excuse I can't stay behind tonight. And I'd slowly get home from sort of staying behind and I just didn't want to put myself in a position where I could go through any of those emotions. Anyway, I'd cry, I cried. I know I cried most nights to sleep, for it would have been well over a month. It was a long time and it would come back like if I was having a bad day. I'd cry before bed just because of this yeah, how did you get through it?
Speaker 1:say again how did you get through this period?
Speaker 2:a year went on and my teacher approached me to go back to this trial and I said to her absolutely, I remember going, no, and I got really panicked. I was like absolutely not, I can't do it, I'm not allowed. And they were like, don't be silly, don't be silly. And then they kind of. The summary of that conversation was we're putting you in for it, it's up to you. If you turn up to me, here's your piece of paper with you, how you get there, saying what buses to catch.
Speaker 2:And I went home that week from school and it was a Saturday morning again, and I remember for me, don't forget, there was that whole. If somebody expects me somewhere, I can't not be there because I'll get in trouble with dad for that. If someone tells me I've got to be somewhere, I've agreed it. I'd never let them down. And so I got up, I did the same thing. I took the money off my dad's trouser press. He wasn't there again, but everyone was asleep. I caught all the buses and the journey was really quick, because I think I was more fearful about getting there this time. Anyway, I approached the leisure center. I had a banana.
Speaker 2:This time I also had a second pair of trainers because I kept my old ones to travel in and I'd had a new pair because I required some new pair of trainers and and I'd had a new pair, because I had some new pair of trainers and so I remembered all those things from my preparation and I went in this time and I remember entering this hall and it felt different. It was light, it was brighter, I was taller, so the post was closer. It was just little weird things. I know everyone was a taller than me. I was actually really tall and I felt like I was one of the tallest. Yeah, so I went in there. It was like a moment Again, I don't know why I remember so much detail of these two days but it was a moment of relaxation where I thought I've got this, I'm taller than these girls, so I know I've got an advantage, I know I'm good, I feel comfortable, I've been here before. There was no fear I'd done it without parents. Again, people's parents are there anyway.
Speaker 2:I went to the trial and the more. I went on and played these matches and my number called out and my number was my number was 129, 9's, my lucky number. I was born on the 9th, so 9th, I was born at 9 o'clock in the morning and I've always had this thing when number 9 if I see a 9, it's a sign that I'm meant to be in that place or something's about to happen, whatever, as I mentioned to you yeah, so my 129 was my number on my arm and anyway went to this trial and felt so much confidence I got out there.
Speaker 2:I played my first, second and third position building for a girl that got injured and played out of position. But there was confidence and I felt amazing and I knew I was strong and I felt like there's other girls looking at me for a change going. She's the strong one. She's definitely gonna get that feeling anyway lined up again, numbers started to get called out and I was doing it again 129, 129, 129, and she said my number 129 and I remember jumping with elation running over to this coach with my legs around her and she just was like I didn't know them either.
Speaker 2:And I was like yes, danny, we're just calling out other people's names, can you just sit over there? And I was like yes but, thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, thank you. So I sit here and I remember sitting down, everyone just looking at me, because, again, there were a few girls that I knew, but they were over there and some were over here. There were new girls still. So I thought, oh, shush, danny, no one knows, you're meant to be quiet. Anyway, we got next steps or whatever, and the coach came over and congratulated me and said I love your reaction because everyone else walks over quietly and just accepts it or doesn't, or whatever. Anyway, I ran home, I ran to the bus stop, the bus was there, jumped on this bus it's really fast. The 15 minute walk was a sprint. I literally thought I'm running all the way, cannot wait to tell everybody this news.
Speaker 2:Got in the house again, mom. She was upstairs in her bedroom. This time she was folding laundry and I ran in there. I was like mom, I know you're going to be angry, I know you're going to tell me I shouldn't have done it, but I did it. I did take dad's money. I admitted all the things I'm going to get in trouble for and I was like well, the great news is and I was pointing at my 129 on my arm. I was like I made it, I'm in and expecting I don't know what I was expecting I reaction, I'm not going to get in trouble this time because it's good. Yes, and I remember her staring at me and she was sitting on the bed. So I was above her and she looked up at me and then she carried on folding washing and looked away. So I stood there for a minute and I felt like on cartoons, when you see in a cartoon character get angry and it starts red at their feet and then their whole body turns yes theme comes out there yes
Speaker 2:I felt like a moment of oh my god, overwhelming anger's. Come in and I you can't swear at your parents. I still, to this day, don't. I can't shout at my mum because that I'm going to get a punishment. So I stood there and I, it took everything in me not to get angry and I thought, and I kept thinking what do I say? She's not saying anything. And then, and then I all of a sudden, like in the moment, thought hang on a minute, this feeling is way better than the one I had last time. I'll take it.
Speaker 2:So I ran off into my bedroom, turned my music on and this time jumped on my bed. But absolutely, I was singing my favorite songs, elated, and thinking I can't wait for Monday to come to tell my teacher that I made it. There's no mobile phone. I couldn't text everyone. I had to wait till someone knocked the door and I'd be like, guess what I did today? Or or my dad one of the dads were taking us all swimming so I could tell the swim girls oh, guess what I did today? Or I waited till monday morning to get to school, to get to my friend's house and wake them all up, to tell them I made steam and to get to school and tell the teachers. But that feeling I held on to and I still feel it, because which feeling?
Speaker 1:which feeling?
Speaker 2:I know I call it it's adrenaline.
Speaker 2:It's adrenaline, the feeling of success, the feeling of achievement, the feeling of happiness and I think when I was younger I called it my happiness if I did well at anything. I got that feeling. It was like butterflies from my stomach that came up into my chest, that entered my throat, and it's just like everything tingles and it's the best feeling in the world and I wanted that repeatedly. I'd felt it on that day and I wanted it again and I wanted it again and it also meant that I didn't have that pain, I didn't get that upset, I didn't get to, I wasn't going to cry. So I remember, like writing a list and putting on there. I'm not going to cry anymore because it doesn't matter what anyone says. As long as I'm successful at things, it's not going to hurt as long as I'm successful at things.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be happy. As long as I'm successful at things, other people will like me.
Speaker 2:Other people will tell me I'm good enough yeah, yeah and I can get those things that my mum won't give me from others. So I wrote this on this list. I made the promise that I wasn't going to cry anymore for no reason. I also made a promise that I was going to be successful in everything I did. So I started writing down everything I could do. I went back to school and I did hockey club, netball club, obviously, swim club, chess I'm awful at chess. I joined up to chess. I absolutely hate it to this day and I'm still no good.
Speaker 2:I did an extra GCSE. So GCSE PE was new at my year I think it was just coming in so they were trialing it with five people in our school, or a handful of people, and I never got selected. And I realized now because I had so much going on at home and I applied myself to so many sports they would. I had a letter saying unfortunately, as you do so much, we don't think it would be something you could take on, and I spoke to the teacher, was devastated. I wanted to stay.
Speaker 2:It was after school and I told my teacher I was going to stay and I did the extra GCSE but I wasn't allowed to take the test because I could stay after school. But ever since then I get that feeling from making a squad, passing a test, getting a job, getting that phone call to say you've got the job, you're now at your records. I get that same adrenaline. And so now I chase it. And don't get me wrong, I'm not successful in everything I do and everything is hard and I have to apply myself and yeah, well, it's like you just said you get the scent.
Speaker 1:it's funny, because what makes it I'll use the word funny, or maybe it's odd or the I guess the complexity in it is. You say you get that feeling from success and one of the things you listed off was something that certainly, by most standards, you're rubbish at being chess and yet you call it success.
Speaker 2:So that's because you had to apply to be in the chess team and I got in. That's success. I had to you go to a competition and in your, within your school, and then once a select few then went to compete against another school. I got success because I was one of the ones that got to go to the next school. So it's like marginal success that I gained the same feeling from. So as long as I'm ticking a box, because for me, if you think about the lists that I write all the time whether whether it be monthly, daily, whatever weekly, it's all right. I've got chess this week, but they're going to select who's going. So that again is an achievement for me. They've got to select the right person out of 25 of us. Tick, I've done it again. So it's kind of these little things that every like I write a list of things to do, list for working from home now, and then, yes, the bottom of that list and tick everything. I can't switch off. So I do work till midnight sometimes, or I won't go out and sometimes I won't eat lunch because I've got to sit here for long enough to tick the box. And I still do it. And I know I do it because when I fail at things which definitely happens or don't make a squad, or you know, I've always made job, so I don't. I haven't got one where I didn't make a job. But those kind of situations I'm in where I don't get something I want and now go into a mode of because I can't, because I struggle to cry ridiculous, I know. So I've just I've got emotional, but because I cry in normal situations, I guess I'll go through my process straight away. So all that happens is I move into solution mode, where I go don't worry, disappointment happens. First, the feeling that's felt when I didn't make something creeps in, but then I hold it, like I said, that cartoon feeling where it gets to halfway and I think, hold it, don't let it get here, because you'll cry, and I can hold it. And then I'm like what do you need to do? Then it's like do I want to make that team? Do I want that job? The answer is yes. What have you got to do? This person's really good. I'm going to phone them, I'm going to go and spend a week with them, I'm going to do, I've got to research, I'm going to go to the library we used to be, or I'm going to Google and research all of this. I'm going to. I'm going to speak to someone who does that role already. I'm going to.
Speaker 2:I went for an interview for to work for brmb and I noticed that they they saw on a branded brmb car. It was a radio station in my day and he lived up the road from me and I saw his car every day, so I knew he worked. I knocked on his door and said I've got an interview just to be an admin person on reception for brMB. But you weren't there, right? What are they going to say to me? Interview, what did you have to do? And this guy actually was a top dog who was running the place and I was interviewing with someone below him and he couldn't believe. He didn't tell me who he was, he just went gave me some tips.
Speaker 2:And I went to the interview and he was there and I was like, oh, you're my neighbor, you live up the road, or whatever. And he was like, yes, lovely to meet you. I'm, I don't know, the CEO of here, or whatever. And I was like couldn't believe it, didn't I? But it was things like that.
Speaker 2:For me there was no fear, no embarrassment, because I had to do it Because if I don't do those things I'm going to get yes. So I know that I relive that moment. I now know I knew it deep down but I never admitted it because, remember, I don't tell nobody knows about my childhood. A lot of my friends yeah, that groups with won't know that because I've never told anyone.
Speaker 2:I don't say it aloud because I don't want to get emotional, but I know that is that one moment must have done something to me. Like I said, I made those promises to myself and I stuck to them. There was no way I wasn't going to cry anymore. So every time we had this battle where she'd shout at me for everything or if she wanted to punish me, but the one thing I couldn't do is cry in front of her, I used to run to my room and cry my own. So I cry on my own, so I could say to everyone I didn't cry, I'd stop. And so that's why I feel now I don't cry. If something drastic happens, first of all, I go into solution. Right, how do I fix it? How do I make everyone else okay? And if I do cry, it'll be on my own, all around my own. I'm going to start.
Speaker 1:It is quite. It's a very powerful story and I think there are so many, there's so many ways to step into that where I have probably 10 different questions along each different tangent. But I'll stay true to. I'll stay true to why we're having the conversation and not let my interest just take us everywhere. But thanks for sharing even past that, but thanks for taking us through that piece, because it's given me such a wonderful understanding of what you've, what you have lived through, what you've gone through, but also how you've taken those moments and they're so vivid in the way that you described and took me, brought me back with you.
Speaker 1:I felt like I was in the room. I felt like I was in that corridor getting narrower and how that same corridor got wider and brighter a year later and I just think for you, what it sounds like is what you're learning, and I still want you to describe what your superpower is, how, at least how you describe it. But it sounds like you've learned to enjoy. There's an HBR article called the power of small wins, and what you seem to have naturally not to have done is straighten down all of these things, all of these emotions, where you celebrate that small win. You're able to recognise a situation, distill the emotion, get a sense of that emotion and know how to regulate.
Speaker 1:Get that clarity of thought yeah and then recognize marginal gains, those little bits of moving forward every single time. That to me already sounds quite amazing and quite impressive and very vivi. So how do you describe at that networking event? How do you describe your superpower?
Speaker 2:I struggle still. If anything, I have to tell a really short version of somebody asked me what my superpower is and I don't know how to explain it to you. I feel like if you want something bad enough in life, I believe you can have it. There's always sacrifice. It's never easy yes and you always have to learn and grow, but I believe there's always a way. I believe there's a way.
Speaker 1:I oh listen, I'm. I won't put you on the spot here, but when we talk after this, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say we're getting you a superpower, because I think there's so much you've just described and all of these things. But I think a way to figure that out certainly for me, as I'm thinking now is that I actually feel I'm even looking at the time. I'm thinking we've already gone way over, but I'm still curious. We haven't really even delved into your career.
Speaker 1:We haven't delved into the juggle, the balance, the shifts and transitions that you've made. And now I'm curious about what of your story, what of your journey that you've shared now in depth. How has that impacted? How has it supported you? Maybe it held you back in some respect, but how has it supported you to where you are today? I want to keep going on. Hopefully you've still got time and you don't have to dash straight away. Great, awesome. So I guess I jump into that. So I'm not going to sweat your superpowers, we're just going to keep moving on with this story, because netball, you said early on, it is not a sport that at that time, enabled you to be a full-time, well-paid, professional athlete. You have this dream of playing to your country, representing england yeah so how did you intend so?
Speaker 1:whilst that dream goes on, one was it clear that you had to be doing something else in the normal, traditional world, and therefore, how did you figure out what that was going to be?
Speaker 2:great question again jamaican household. You have to tick boxes, so academics is important. So, whether you want it or not, you have to do. You have to get your gcse, you have to go to college, you have to get your a levels and you have to go to university. So my granddad from jamaica would come and visit every year and that visit we look forward to, and he, the thing he used to make me do is make sure you've got a book, because you're going to read me a paragraph from a book. So I used to have to do that. But then the next question was how are we going? What? How are we getting on at school? What are you trying to achieve next? What university are you going to?
Speaker 2:My path in my mind was always I had to do that. I don't think there was any question. I had to do my A-levels and go to uni. So that's what I did. So that obviously freed me up to carry on playing sport alongside it.
Speaker 2:So you join a local club, you go to training every week, you play in the league, you play in tournaments. You normally have an off season over summer, but we have a winter league and a summer league. Summer league is fun and not a higher standard. Winter league is the important thing that we, the standard that we we train for. So yeah, I, um, I just never stopped. I've played touch wood. I didn't have injury until way later in life. So I was always super fit, super strong, did everything outside. If I wasn't good at something, I had strength in my legs. I'd be doing that with my brother at home, while then I'd go to all the sports, yeah. And then I had to get a job on the side, because then I couldn't. My dad stopped leaving money on the trouser press, so I had to do this myself, you know.
Speaker 1:So what was your job?
Speaker 2:I went in I started doing. I worked for a phone company so I basically learned how to set everyone's mobile phones up. It was big. Back in the day I worked for three different networks. I did that alongside college and uni and I loved it. I could break into anybody's phone.
Speaker 2:Don't ever tell anyone. I could listen to everyone else's voice. You can't do it anymore. I could go into people's voicemails. I could talk your number to someone else's phone. I could do all sorts of things. I was the queen of breaking into people's phone. That's not what I was meant to learn how to do, but you know, but so glad you learned it.
Speaker 1:Maybe used it, maybe never used it but yeah okay, yeah but yeah, sales.
Speaker 2:So I went into sales. I I could talk to anyone. I really I love finding out. I love learning about other people and working out why they're not like me or what they have that I've got, so I love conversations. I'll talk to anyone forever, so in the phone industry.
Speaker 2:You stand in a shop and people came in. You have to approach them, ask them what phone they have. We used to do this game where you can guess what phone people would have by what they look like. They're a BlackBerry user, they are, or they're a Nokia user, things like that. But because people have certain personality traits and it's really bizarre they must have made it hard.
Speaker 1:Now that's gone. Never yeah, samsung or iphone sorry, it's gone now yeah, are you? An android yeah, what, what am I?
Speaker 2:You could be an Android user. Are you? An. Android user no, my phone.
Speaker 1:You've got an Apple iPhone. I should have put two yes that's right, should have given you the clue. But yes, no, I am iPhone. Yeah, now I'm curious. Now I'm thinking what do I? My brother? He's an Android, my brother's an Android, yeah, my brother.
Speaker 2:He's an Android. My brother's an Android. Yeah, I really do. He's an Android user. Yeah, android users well, I bet you Android users are going to be really intellectual probably have views that are sometimes controversial. I think that's what I was going to say Very stubborn, strong-minded, very opinionated. There'll be those kind of people. That's my opinion.
Speaker 2:only think it is love stuff yeah tech savvy, probably more conscious about fashion, not materialistic as such, but likes to be down with the trends and wants to stay ahead of trend, probably more in social media than the other people. That's how I see it. You know, it's really funny, so funny. If people start messaging you say actually I'm an android and I'm like that Do you know what?
Speaker 1:Forget the whole show. That's the clip that's going out. That's the bit that we're going to put on YouTube. What we need to chime up doesn't matter, but we did, but this is what we found interesting.
Speaker 2:You're going to put that on. Anyway, I'm really good at star signs.
Speaker 2:I can guess people's star signs, but don't test me go on then went into sales, went into sales and then I knew I was good at sales, because then obviously you get targeted. So we used to get free. We used to. The more cell phones I sold, the more points I'd gain, which would give me in free phone. And then it would give me a free phone with an add-on, because I used to get every course free when I was.
Speaker 2:I knew I was good at sales and I found it really easy. I absolutely loved it. It might again. It's the whole process in my mind. If you need something because you're walking into my shop, all I'm doing is matching up what's best for you and I'm being honest, I'm going to advise you. You need this because of this. That's what you're looking for. Yeah, sales process has never been uncomfortable to me, because if you're coming to me or unless it's a cold call, and then I'm gonna find out if you need something and find out that first, before I then sell it to you. But for me I find that process really easy. I don't get uncomfortable with it and that's how I train it now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's how. So that for you was your career and, as you said, you had this dream in sport and you knew where that wanted to take you representing your country. You had this dream in sport and you knew where that wanted to take you representing your country. For your then I'll say traditional career in sales. What aspirations did you have in there?
Speaker 2:First of all, it was money, because I had to have a gym membership to train outside, because would you leave school and things like that? You don't have it In my mind. I needed to pay for a gym membership. I also juggled with my personal life, like fun, going out with my mate, and then on top of that I had to pay for travel to get to and from my netball games and tournaments, if I wanted, because I still. To this day someone phones me and goes I've got a netball game, it's in an hour, can you be there? Yes, I'll find a way, because I never say no to sport. I'd always get there, yeah. And then it was obviously I had to pass my driving test, I had to pay for my lessons, I had to buy a car and insurance. I did it all myself, so I had to have the job, and sales was the quickest way to earn money, because when you're at early career stages your salary is going to be low, but with sales you can amplify that by hitting targets and getting bonuses.
Speaker 2:So I had to train sales and I had to be the best. I went into health and fitness, david Lloyd in particular. They have a two week sales training program. That was really intense and you had to pass it to be able to go and sell and I think I learned a lot of my skillset from there. But yeah, I found it easy. Why wouldn't you want to be in the gym? Why wouldn't you want to have this feeling as a euphoria when you fit?
Speaker 2:Why wouldn't you want to challenge yourself. It was all sport, it was easy. So I worked in the gym industry for years because one you get a free gym membership so I could train myself. I could be there all the time, train myself for my sport, but at the same time it was paying me. I enjoyed it. It was like-minded people. It was easy to sell because to me it a no-brainer, everyone should have a gym membership. But then it got to the competitive level where I had to be the best sales. So there were leagues, best salesperson across all 27 days, always at the top and I would win a ferrari for the weekend. I used to win all these incentives holidays, trips, extra bonus phones. Okay. Then it was what's next? The best salesperson? I need to be a manager, then I now. I now need to be a trainer to train everyone how I do what I do now I'm the best salesperson and I need to be a manager.
Speaker 2:Then I now need to be a trainer to train everyone how I do what I do. Now I'm a trainer, I need to be a regional manager. Then I have to be a sales director, then managing director went on from there.
Speaker 1:And during that it's wonderful that you have a natural competitivity or competitiveness. Yeah, that probably a good chunk is your brother giving you that as well, but always holding it in many respects, yeah. So when you then look at, I'm interested what was the hardest part for you during that balance between being an international and having this drive to your sales career as well? What was the hardest part of balancing or juggling those two?
Speaker 2:the hardest part was making england. I didn't make england, I played at prem level. So in netball it's england, super league, prem, one, two, three, regional, one, two, three, then locally. That's how it works. So I always had to go up the ranks. So first of all I got into regional, then I had to get into prim, then I was in prim one and in prim one the Super League in England girls. Because England is super league crossover. They trade, they, they use those games as training games. So you play against England players all the time.
Speaker 2:So being in that prim one division for me with any club was was all I needed to do if I hadn't made England, because I'm still playing against them. So I'm still checking my label, I'm still making sure I'm relevant, I'm still making sure I'm good enough. I could still tick those achievement boxes. So up until a year ago I was still playing prim one. I've now had to pull back on a few things, but so still ticking that box, even at my age, is proving everyone wrong.
Speaker 2:So said you're not good enough, you're never going to make England. I never, ever went back to them and go, told you so. But I know that if you see what I'm doing now. I know that the comfort state was all about the feeling I had inside over saying it out loud, but I'm more than comfortable to say it out loud as well.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so my actual coach was one of the England coaches that was my club coach, so I was getting the best training and I moved to her from another club because I had to be the best and everyone was like, oh she, you're not enough to be in her club and I was like when I joined her club it's about loyalty and commitment. So she put me, even though I was a standard for one of her top team. She actually put me in like her fourth team and I had a year of uncomfortableness, crying after every game, having to humble myself, having to be careful what I say, not mock the work with a team that weren't quite my standard, but question my own ability, question why am I here? Maybe I'm not good enough? I went through a whole year season of that before she then, rewarded me with.
Speaker 2:right now you're skipping to the top team because you are good enough to see loyalty, and she taught me a lot of lessons through that and I I used to have to bite my lip and not say anything because she punished us.
Speaker 2:She was very old school. She is really old school. She's still around. If I questioned why am I on the bench or why am I not in that team, she'd punish you more. You weren't. Yeah, that's not the way to get there. So I learned how to not answer back, to accept what the fate was, but to work hard to get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess that sounds a little bit like regulating that emotion. Yes, that knee-jerk react, not knee-jerk the good react instinct to want to call it out or respond to it, and that was something that you had to continue to control.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I work really well with feedback, so with her I used her to my advantage where she was really good at telling me everything I'm not good at. You never got well done unless you absolutely smashed it. And there was a game where I came off and she was like surprise, that's the best I've ever seen you play. Danny, do more of that. And before that it was you need to do this, change your footwork, do this, do that, and it would be like an overwhelming, but it's worth it, and that was the same way my dad treated me where he'd never, say well done, high five, or you've done something amazing until you really got there.
Speaker 2:So it made that triumph so much more worthwhile when I got there and I was willing to do the work, knowing that would eventually come.
Speaker 2:So with her she taught me because I went to university, met boys and alcohol and and slapped a little bit with my training or netball or whatever. She said to me, you'll never make england. And that's a moment for me. I relived the mom moment and it could be. And I thought to myself no, it's on the goals list, I'm still doing my goals. It's on there because I know I'm practically doing the right things. So I thought here we go. So who do you think's the best center? Which was my position, she'd tell me. So then I'd be like what can they do? That I can't literally tell me. So I'd go and work on that what? And then I'd say what are my strengths? Because then I used to think I can't lose my strengths. So I'd work really hard on my strengths as well as my weaknesses. But this is where all that time and effort that other people don't do, I generally do. I will go home, or even to this day, me, my son, practice passing, rugby, netball.
Speaker 2:I have to redo it because I can't go to a game and do those things around. But yeah, so she told me I had to leave her club because my role in her club ended up being helping others, as opposed to because she had made a decision. I wasn't going to make england.
Speaker 2:So yeah, make it play for the fourth team, third team and the second team on a saturday, and then on sunday I'd play in her top team, in the prem team. So I'd never say no because I couldn't, because I didn't want to lose but balancing that because there you're in an environment.
Speaker 1:It sounds like some of that was at uni. Not necessarily, but you're still doing netball, uni sales right, funding your life and keeping this going? And did we talk about this progress, this marginal gains? To what extent were you feeling that, whilst you're balancing this part of your career, did you feel you were moving forward in? Yeah, in all aspects?
Speaker 2:yes, because don't forget in my mind, if it's on my list and at the end of the year if I can't prove that I've done enough to move towards the goal, I'm not allowed to run it over. I have to accept that I'm not going to do it. There have been things on my list where I've gone. I completely forgot it was on the list but it clearly wasn't important. So I cannot roll it over. I can come back to it in a few years and and it can go back on the list for an achievement. But the England netball one was always there because I was always working hard. Everything I did the training with my brother, going to the gym, all those things was always moving me forward. So I confidently every year knew I can roll that over because I'm getting closer. I'm getting closer. How old were you when you made your debut?
Speaker 1:So I don't tell anyone my age, so we'll tell you what year did you make your debut, so I don't tell anyone my age.
Speaker 2:So we'll tell you what year did you make your debut? I made my debut in 2013 and I stayed in the state for four years. So how England works is you?
Speaker 1:have to be invited to trial or you have to be seen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can't just find out when they are in turn up. It never used to work like that, I don't know how it is now unnecessarily. And then you trial and you make the squad, but it's. You do camps. So one week camps, sporadic across the year, and then you go on tour. So it was always a tournament. So we traveled to south africa a couple of times and you go on tour for two weeks solid. So you have to stop your whole life, go on tour, perform and then come. How?
Speaker 1:does that work? People are saying this yeah, dual careers by. One lady quit her job full stop because she could not get the flexibility. What did you do?
Speaker 2:when I was playing for england, I worked for a hotel group that were unreal and they sponsored me so they paid for my flights to go and they gave me paid leave as well and they were just really supportive of everything I did. Because I was, I've worked, I was very successful in their business. I was a regional trainer at the time and I was all about results and I did my time like I'd work weekends for them. It's hotels so you could stay up and down the country.
Speaker 2:I did more than enough hours that when I came to them and said, look, this has happened, they were elated for me and they wanted to help me. So when I went on tour for 15 days, that time the hardest thing was my child. So the first time I went on tour he was three and I'd never, ever spent from him and there was juggling guilt and ambition. It was like I went to a really guilt state how can I do this to him? And every night I phoned him. Every night that was on tour and he cried.
Speaker 2:Every night I did this thing where I bought a present. Every night I was awake so I used to do bedtime. It was a bedtime routine I used to love. Even if I worked long hours, I'd always be there for bedtime. So this was the first time His routine was messed up and I wasn't going to be there. His grandparents and his dad had to step in. His dad was always there, but he missed me and we were very close. So I'd buy him a present and then I'd phone him each night and he'd open whatever present. It was Smelly, felt-tip, pens or whatever it was.
Speaker 2:But felt it pens or whatever it was, but a riddle on the top and he'd read the riddle and we'd spend the conversation talking about so that we didn't focus on crying. We'd talk about what. Does he guess what the present is from the riddle?
Speaker 2:yeah yeah, that was for me that putting the phone down I'd cry, he'd cry while on the phone. I'd put the phone down, I'd cry for half an hour or so before then I'd switch back into athlete mode. So for me that that was harder than juggling the work and the preparation.
Speaker 1:I wanted all those things, so I made them happen yes, when did you know netball wasn't going to come to an end, at least for england at that level I was on tour and I I taught my acl.
Speaker 2:I went up for an inception came down. We all landed on my one leg and my knee yeah and I couldn't finish the tournament.
Speaker 2:So I spent the end of the tournament crying upset, seeing doctors trying to pretend it wasn't the case, and when I got back I'll say this because it won't be just my opinion, but the netball world is very ageist and when you have an injury people assume especially acl, which is really common in in lots of sports, but very common in netballs and female sports yes, that's going to go with the last effect.
Speaker 1:It's very common, but very common in female sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, moving around rugby a fair amount. So I've done my ACL since I started rugby as well, but anyway, that's in the I taught my ACL football as well, yeah.
Speaker 2:I came back and that was it. I retried for the England camp and I wasn't even even though I tried. I came back fully fit all the umpire coming over going. You've done it again. I can't believe you've come back from such a tragic incident. We didn't think we'd see you again. Everyone thought I was in and I got an email saying my feedback was you're not right this time and I never got back in. It wasn't enough. It was frustrating feedback because it wasn't feedback that I could work with.
Speaker 2:But yes there must have been another reason frustration.
Speaker 1:That's an emotion. How else did you feel at that point? Because that wasn't your decision, that was taken away from you it was really tough.
Speaker 2:It took me. It probably took me a really long time to get over it, but I used other things. So playing, remaining in Prem one was more important to me then, because or playing for a team, so I have played, if you ask anyone. I stood with my old coach, this same lady, just a few weeks back and she said you're wearing a different netball dress again, danny. Like how many teams can you play for in your lifetimes? And we stood and counted. I've played for 11 different netball teams, whereas everyone else will stay with the team until the end and I think to myself confidently, I'm happy to say that because everyone's who you're playing for this week and I will never say no to a game. I've played for many teams, more than 11, but 11 substantial teams at that high level and I moved, yeah, by thought.
Speaker 2:As soon as they find out my age, they treat me differently, or they assume I can't play or perform at a certain level, or I can't play against a certain England player, or whatever, yes for me it's forget your opinion of me. Put me out there and if I don't perform, bench me and I'm accepting and I'm coming on the bench. I'm accepting of being on the bench if I know I'm not performing or it's not right for the team that day being on the bench because of my age or because my face doesn't fit or there's a new player coming through time too, and I have to go through.
Speaker 2:I've gone through that consistently for many years now yeah again. I know that loads of people will laugh at me for saying this, because in the world they're really judgy. I know I could have made england a lot longer. It wasn't for age in the supposed injury that you can never come back from that that I've come back from twice, yeah, and if my club dropped me to a lower level again, you're not good enough because you're not in Prem 1 anymore, it's.
Speaker 1:It is interesting to hear that age is nothing but a number, but in this instance, we feel like there's a policy or something that's written around age where. But that being said, you go through. You got that frustration. You're annoyed at the powers that be. I'm still waiting for an oval ball to come in here at some point. I forgot where did that come from?
Speaker 2:sorry, but the joke goes. I'm mixed race. I have dual heritage, jamaican and english, and when I made england, my jamaican family are the most supportive. We I don't see them as often, but when you speak to them it's like you've never been away from them. Everything's about values, loyalty, family first. It doesn't matter how many times you haven't seen each other. Anything a family member asks you, you do that over anything else. It's just.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to explain our culture yeah when I played for england, the call phone call from my grandfather and my great aunt. I lived with my great aunt yeah for so years of my life.
Speaker 2:So she brought us up to a degree and taught us the culture. But when I had the conversation with them, it was fantastic. It elated me, so proud. They sent me gifts, money, they're backing me, but it was always a joke of when are you going to play for the other country, danny? That kind of conversation. And I feel like the seed was planted with that conversation all those years ago when I made England and I never let go of it.
Speaker 2:Then I used to write it on the bottom of these goals list and I removed it a few times. I used to write how can I represent my country? I didn't know how. In my mind, I'm never going to play for Jamaica. They're better than England's standard. I don't live in.
Speaker 2:Jamaica. They've never let foreigners into the squad either, so it was something that was really far out of reach again, and I just thought I just had this thing that I used to write down of what can I do to make my jamaican family proud. And it was always going to be something. I never knew what it was going to be yeah how it all came around.
Speaker 2:The rugby coach my son is now 16. A few years ago three years ago to be exact. He plays in a really high set up. He's a very good rugby player, but he also looks way older than he is. So he's like six foot two, really deep voice. He matured quite quickly. So when he plays everyone thinks he went to a job interview the other day and they thought he was 24 and he's 36. But anyway, he plays rugby and the rugby set up is really good for pass way. So all the pass way coaches talk about different players, blah, blah, blah. And it just so happened the Jamaican coach. He's based in the UK and he was looking for Jamaican heritage players to bring into the program.
Speaker 2:So he was looking for these pathway players. So Harrison got mentioned, my son. My number got passed on, he called me and started talking to me about Harrison and he said look, in our under 18 squad we do play younger players. But how old is he? Because I'm sure he's ready. Blah, blah, blah. He didn't really know how old he he was.
Speaker 2:I went hang on a minute. He's nearly 14. So harrison is like one of the youngest in his academic age. His birthday's in june. Yeah, all of his friends turn a year ahead of older, quicker than him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even though he'd seen him playing in this higher setup, he went when does he? He should be turning 16 soon. I was like nope, nope, nearly 13. He's not the age he's there. And he was like but he's six foot wide. I was like yep, yep, he is. And he was like this is exciting. But he got very excited about him. He's gonna be right. Imagine where he's gonna be when he does turn 16. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, anyway, we got on really well.
Speaker 2:We had this hour conversation about culture, heritage, everything, and he just asked me about what I did and he said we've got a young senior women's team. They're a very young setup and our biggest problem is mental strength, confidence on the pitch. And he was like I wonder if you could be part of this setup in some capacity. I'd love to meet you, blah blah blah. And I was like women's sport tick, helping other people achieve tick, helping a sport rugby. I only know because I watched my brother play and I played a little bit when I was younger, only with him, but didn't know the rules. Then I followed my son and had to learn the rules because I'm his biggest fan, coach, everything yeah I was yeah, I can help with fitness, I'm big on training, I know how to achieve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we went into lockdown. So I started going on zoom calls with these girls and it was lovely, our coach. He started putting in fit training. You've got to do, malcolm Bronco, all these rugby, yeah, yeah. And I was like and I'm up against these 22 year olds? There was a 19 year old. They're all under 25, let's say so. I thought here we go, I'm not going to be beaten by them.
Speaker 2:So we talked about my attitude. So I played there. I'm the underdog, I'm coming in, I'm learning regularly. I'm here to support, I'm here to help with mental strength and how we focus and attitude. But I'll get involved in everything you have to do. I'll do your training program. So we're in lockdown anyway.
Speaker 2:So I was like what's the fit test? I'll put my scores in first. Because the coach was like they're too scared to put it in the group, they're too scared to share it. So I'd put mine in. So then all the girls put theirs in. So I was like, oh, she's this, she's done this better than me. But then it was like I've got to try, I've got to get up at six, I've got to do a Bronco every Monday because I've got to beat everyone else on their Bronco time. But then it just stuck that whole process again to me. We got to the end of lockdown and we were selecting the squad for the first game. After lockdown I say we, the coaches. I was just there as moral support and helped with the analytics of game strategy.
Speaker 2:And we're on this Zoom call where we're all muted and they named the squad and they named me. So I was like I sat there and I thought we can't talk, I can't unmute myself. They'd locked us and they were like girls, we're going to speak to you one-on-one for your one-to-ones now, and then the next call is about planning, so we're off the call. So I'm redialing my coach which everyone's probably so I'd pick up the phone. So he phoned me and he just laughs. He's so funny, daddy, I know why you're calling me and I was like I never said I'd play rugby.
Speaker 2:You can't put me in the squad. I've not really. We've been in lockdown. I've done the skills, I've played for fun. This is an international squad. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then he went Danny, we're going to the Bahamas. Okay, I'm in, I'm there, bahamas, I'm there, I'm with you. Yeah, it was this conversation. He'd seen me play netball. He knew what I was, a capable of netball transit. Netball has transitioned into rugby sevens and it was seven. Sorry, I should have mentioned that. So he was like, yeah, he had this conversation with me and convinced me. He was just like you can do this, you can do that and, more importantly, we need you for the squad. Without you, where's the confidence coming from? Blah blah. Anyway, I went out to the bahamas for my first tour. I was co-captain with this other young girl who'd been captain previous game, previous match tournament, and it was the most pivotal time of my life. I loved every minute. I sat on the beach at the end of this tour. We made history for Jamaica.
Speaker 2:I wore the jersey for the first time. I took the picture. I sent it to the whole family. We've got a WhatsApp group that I talk on regularly.
Speaker 2:We do a Sunday call. Now because of this, the emotion was times 10 for the England one. Because of where I'm at, what it meant, how it felt, the fact that I didn't believe, I didn't think I'd ever get that and I didn't know where it would be. And it came out of nowhere. I'm playing a new sport. I never knew I never would have put on my goals list, but I'm playing a new sport and I've had to learn it. I'm playing internationally, but hang on a minute, I'm now playing for that other country that I never ever get to do so the you can imagine that adrenaline and feeling.
Speaker 2:I talked to you about that happiness that I find it was. It was just so overwhelming. I sat on this beach watching the sunset on my own one morning in the Bahamas, so it sounds surreal saying it. How lucky am I? And I've reflected on it my entire life.
Speaker 2:I cried, I. I just thought what am I doing? I was in a job at the time that I didn't enjoy and I was doing everything for somebody else, and I had a bit of a realisation moment with that and then I thought you know, I'm consciously now. I want to pursue rugby. I want to be the best. I want to be the best for this country. I want to actually put Jamaica on the map. But I wouldn't say that I was part of the gross for Jamaica, and now I'm going to take it even more serious than I ever have. It's not just about supporting and helping the girls. It's about going back into my whole process of how do I improve as a player? How am I now going?
Speaker 2:to be someone that's dangerous on a rugby pitch. How am I going to do that? What's my process, process one I need to leave my job.
Speaker 1:And I came back and left my job and I've carried on playing to pursue other things yeah, that to me is that's wonderful, such a fascinating way to find that. Well, I know this is all about second wind, but likewise in sports, because your role was different, you were still in sport and it just really talks about I talk a lot actually about finding the seals, finding where you think you're going to thrive, and then the role will sort itself out. But getting that environment first, yeah, and that's what you did, right, you got on there, but you were there about mental, mental toughness, and that was the role. But then that moved from an off field perspective, or at least the coach then thought get on the field and do that for them, play that role and it was one of the games out there we played against.
Speaker 2:The best team we played against was Canada in this tournament and we were trying to qualify for the next tournament. All the teams we beat, except for Canada. As you can imagine, they're on another scale For me. I'd already researched every player. I knew the names of the girls in front of me. I couldn't wait for one of them to tackle me. I couldn't believe. I was like I wonder what it feels like, like I wonder what her technique is. It was all these things going on.
Speaker 2:I was so excited when I got on the pitch. I didn't start that game. The other girls did, but when my coach said Danny, get out there, pull them together, I got out there. All of a sudden we're playing sevens. There's seven of us. We had four yellow cards because we'd done that many infringements. There was three of us on the pitch and I remember looking to the two girls either side of me and went what's the plan, girls? And the one girl went there's three of us versus seven and there's not much of a plan. So I was like I'm laughing, smiling on my face, and it was that language and they obviously many tries, but Macklin, one of these players being on the same pitch I. I came off and everyone was sad and I was elated. I was like I just touched a Canada rugby player. It was all those kinds of feelings and it was again.
Speaker 2:I went straight into. What am I learning from this? What amazing experience and I remember sitting in our bedroom because we always have a party on the last night with all the girls and we've really bonded. And it's emotional because they're going back to Canada, they're going back to Jamaica, all the girls are from everywhere Dubai and us in the UK. We're all leaving each other until the next tournament and if we don't get selected, we may never see each other again.
Speaker 2:It's all that kind of emotion but we sit unlike Mother Hen, where I sit there and we talk about. This is what I got from this tournament, and everybody's drive for being there is different. They're all at different stages in their life, so I think it's beautiful to hear their story. They all know I'm older. They don't actually know my age. There is an element of respect when I speak and they listen to me.
Speaker 2:I stop all the arguments and I do the reasoning. When we have that moment at the end of tour, it's beautiful, where I just want to be with these girls forever and bring them home and help them Again. For where I just want to be with these girls forever and bring them home and help them Again. It's one of those moments that you can't replicate and you want it again and again and you only get it in a tour scenario. I only got it when I was in England. I only get it now, when I'm away with Jamaica, and I want it again and again. You work hard for it.
Speaker 1:At some point you won't be on tour as a player. What sort have you put into how you'll get that same happiness, feeling, success, feeling yeah what sort have you put into how you're going to get that once you're athletic to retire?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I'm at a point in my life where every as soon as I have an injury, everyone tells me you're not going back. And I've had it a few times. So I did my ACL in my second year of Jamaica, out on tour in San Salvador, a girl I went to go for an interception, which my coach keeps telling me not to do. I hesitated. This girl had made a decision to tackle me. She came at me hard and she popped my knee out and it was dislocated. I popped it back in, knew it was my acl because I'd done it before, but played on. I basically told everyone it was fine, it didn't hurt as much because the pain goes after, the tear is such and I covered the rest of the day and convinced myself and everyone that it wasn't my acl the next day it was massive.
Speaker 2:Had an mri, not my acl yeah so I cried the rest of that tour because I was out after the second day and I'd worked six months for that tour and it was my time. I'm getting better, don't forget I'm still in this sport. Everyone else has been playing since the agency.
Speaker 2:I've only played the last few years. I thought that was going to be my tour to put me on the map and people to start really respect me as a rugby player not just Danielle from Netball who can do rugby, and everyone, family, everyone said this is obviously the end. You're not going to come back from this. Last time it took me six months, against the odds, to come back from an ACL reconstruction. So I go through that emotion a lot with injury. I actually an American doctor, fantastic guy reached out to me after the tour, had seen me on tour and said I don't really have the art, you'll heal, and I did. I healed my acl after five months and went straight back. So that's why I'm still playing now. So I've got a healed acl and a reconstructed. No one believes me, but I didn't have enough. I don't know how I did. Um, that probably is. Yeah, I actually have a really rare blood type that's heals quicker than the average as well, which I found out because of this. What be weird is that?
Speaker 1:maybe that literally a superpower? That is one of those things. Physical healing I guess comes through, but then that probably may also go feed up to the brain very quickly.
Speaker 2:So your emotional regulation but right, it's that thought process now of the feet. So I've gone through it, with two acl injuries and obviously being dropped for my age trial for a super league squad and they bluntly told me we're taking the four younger girls over you. So I've had to go through this a few times and felt that I just questioned if that was the rest of my life, how am I going to deal?
Speaker 2:with it at the moment. I found something to get me out of the rut, to strive for and achieved again. But yeah, I live in constant fear of what happens if I do get injured and I get taken out early, or what's going to happen when I'm not good enough or I'm not selected anymore and I didn't get selected after the ACL in Jamaica. I've missed three tours and it broke my heart. I've just been reselected and I go out to Jamaica at the end of May. Yes, I'd only just got back in. Congratulations, thank you. Yeah, cannot wait. Yeah, I don't know, because I feel like it'll be depression, a dip, because I've been a few times and quickly called myself out. I feel like I've dipped my toes in but not actually falling into it yeah me this is why I.
Speaker 2:This is why I'm probably doing this podcast, this is why I go out to schools and universities and corporate events and I talk and I tell that story that that kills me to say, because I feel like I keep asking myself what's my purpose in life. Because I get asked the question would I have changed? Wow, sorry, would I have changed my childhood? And the answer is no, and I'll tell you for why. I remember being happy if I described my childhood without telling you that story. I loved every minute. I can tell you so many happy memories and the bad ones are there, but I got through them, I got over them and the success and the happiness and the fun stuff was way better than any of those things, or more appreciated by my mind, I guess.
Speaker 2:So would I change anything? No, I wouldn't. Yes, I would love a strong relationship with my mother. Yes, I would love for that all to excuse me, sorry. Yes, I would love to have a mom like everyone else that takes you shopping more. I've got a friend who goes on holiday and her mom buys her bread and milk. So she gets back on the day of holiday, her house is clean and beds have got fresh sheets and she's got a little care package of chocolate and bread and milk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah no, it's okay, no one has not everyone does that only one person has that more, okay, okay, don't worry about that, that's fine it's okay, I'm looking for things that I've done.
Speaker 2:But yeah, no, I want to go to lunch with my mum and have a conversation about what I'm doing in my life and I want to hear what my mum's doing and what life's like being who she is now. But mum, she's no longer an alcoholic, but we don't have a very close relationship and she has other mental health problems because of what she went through and she's a different person to me. So I'm struggling to warm to the non-alcoholic person because that's a completely different personality. So I think to myself, even though it's difficult to talk about, if there's one other person that went through something similar or worse, because I don't even think that was bad. That was my normal and to me it wasn't bad, until I realized later that I could have had a different life or I could have had a perfect life. I just think that I share my story and someone can relate to it and it helps them believe in themselves, go for something they've cut off, achieve something that they thought they never could have. I've fulfilled my purpose in life.
Speaker 1:Yes, fascinating, I get it and it's interesting because I will always talk about that's. What's important is being vulnerable, understanding your purpose, finding your purpose and living to it. Putting that and living to it. You have broken down different parts of your life into small pieces of paper that you put under your mattress that give you this sense of achievement and sense of progress as you move forward. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I wonder what will that be when you stop playing? How are those tics going to change? Because you're not going to have one, perhaps you're not going to have one, perhaps you're not going to have one that is represent your country or do something, those lines, or yeah or maybe it is, maybe it is, maybe it's mastered, maybe it's something else, but it's. What is that sense of progress going to be for you?
Speaker 2:and yeah, that that sounds interesting I think I'm trying to avoid having the conversation with myself because I know the day is going to come, but I keep thinking well, it's not here, enjoy what you've got. I appreciate every day because it's going to come and I know I can't stop. Inevitable what I'm trying to do. I think at the moment I'm in this place where I'm trying to bridge the gap, so I'm trying to give what I think I've got. I'm trying to give whatever this superpower is to other people because I'm a massive believer in with my businesses and everything. I say this all the time. Competitors are there to only make you better and the world is big enough for us all to do the same things if we wanted to, and compete against each other. In my industry of personalized dog wear, there are loads of competitors, but there's enough room for all of us and there's enough buyers for all of us to be in that market.
Speaker 2:I feel the same about everything else I do. Like I said, I feel like I'm looking for that purpose or I'm defining that purpose as whatever this superpower is, whatever name I eventually give it, which I don't know I want to make sure that I've shared it with the rest of the world, so that when I'm gone there is a legacy. I don't know why I get emotional about that. I think my biggest fear in life is death, but when I'm gone I want to make sure that everyone said she was worthy. I want people even if it's just Joe Bloggs up the road not being famous as such. I just want to leave something behind that someone goes. Do you remember that girl, danielle? She did all of this against the odds. If she can do it, I can do it.
Speaker 1:Listen yeah.
Speaker 2:And I feel like I've got to. So when I go to these schools, these primary schools, it's about kids believing in themselves. When I go to the kindred schools and universities, it's about sharing that superpower and having the belief from a young age or fixing it now, at whatever age it may be. So I want to continue doing that and I know I it now, at whatever age it may be. So I want to continue doing that and I know I'll definitely go into coaching because I feel like I can live my sports through as a people or find me and somebody else and help them navigate what or achieve what I've done with that extra support. So I know I feel like it will be. But again, coaching, I started thinking about someone.
Speaker 2:When you can come and coach at our club, it has to be a certain level of player. It has to be a certain level. So again, I'm already like maybe I'll coach the Jamaican netting team one day or the Jamaican team. I mean, it's that level I'm already starting to think about. Yeah, but I've got my son's going through a journey where I question am I good enough?
Speaker 2:am I doing what I need do? Because I don't want to change my childhood, because I know that's what's made me who I am, that's what's made this mindset, this superpower that I've got. So if you've changed, would I be able to do what I do? Would I have been successful? I can't answer that, but I don't want to change it.
Speaker 2:But I made a promise when I brought a child into this world that they would have everything and I don't care what anyone says, he will never want for anything. I will always be there for him and he'll have all the emotional support I know I didn't have myself because I chose to bring him into the world. So I know very much that I'm mocked for wrapping him up and cutting wool or picking up the pieces or going through emotions with him, because I don't want him to feel like he hasn't got someone to support him or I want him to believe in himself. And actually I don't think it helped him for so long. And I've had to pull back a little bit because I keep thinking how is he gonna find his trigger, as I call it, my trigger? Is that, what? That, that motion, that whole situation I did. That's what my superpower is really. It's what gets me through, finds the solution, gets me to that next level. He, what's what he's? And I overthink what is he's going to be, because I'm there speaking it all for him. But he we had the other day I'll quickly tell you sorry.
Speaker 2:We had a moment the other day, a few weeks back, where a kid who's from the local area was in one of my presentations and I got emotional, explained it and he came up to me and said I know your son and I think so highly of you. I was really inspired and thank you and it was a lovely moment. But he mentioned it to my son. So my son came home and said mom, I know what you do, but what is it that you're saying to everyone? Because this is what this boy said to me and he said I don't understand.
Speaker 2:And we spent five or six hours where I told him some home truths, I guess, about some horrible bits, about how my mum was brought up and why I think she's the way she is. And I told him this fear. I told him that I fear he hasn't got the trigger or the appreciation, I guess, to push himself far enough. But his goal and ambition is to play rugby for Jamaica and to play rugby for England. He wants to, if not one or the other. And I said to him I always fear that you're not going to make it just because I've done this for you, and what is that? What's that thing you're avoiding? You'll work harder now.
Speaker 2:And his response Jesus, I don't think I'd get upset. His response was you're sorry, jesus this is a happy thing. You know, I'm happy for you, I'll show you the happy face.
Speaker 1:It'll keep coming.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I don't need to. His response was let me get it out. Mum, you're more than enough. If I know that you're proud of me. It's enough for me to never give up. It's enough for me to work hard when it gets tough. It's enough for me to never stop trying. It's enough for me to want that goal bad enough, he said, because I want to make you proud. Obviously I'm very proud of him and I said that to him. But for him now he's got to achieve what I've achieved he's. You've made it international. I've got to do and he wants to do it because I said to him don't do it because I have. He said, mom, I want anything, he said, but I have got the fear of not making you proud, the fear of not doing as well as you did. My mum's an international player and he gets it tough. People say, oh, he is in the Jamaica set-up for his own merit, because he is good enough. And don't forget they came from.
Speaker 2:Jamaica, but he gets the whispers of your mum's international. Mum plays for Jamaica. No wonder you're in it, but actually he's a better rugby player than me. He's been playing for so long we go in the garden, yeah, which is me, how to play rugby. He fixes my skill set. He's just taught me how to kick with it, with purpose and with skill yes and I'm loving and it's our bond.
Speaker 2:But anyway, that moment for me, again I thought, wow, I'm funting for the purpose to leave this legacy, but actually I don'm sure if I've done it. If I died tomorrow, I feel like I've done that for him or I've done enough for him. Sorry to get upset. It's a wonderful thing. It really is. I don't know why I get upset.
Speaker 1:It is a wonderful thing. It is a wonderful thing and I think for him to respond in that way, certainly for the maturity that, or the age he is, certainly demonstrates maturity and certainly the I guess, the experience that he's had to get him to that point, that to me sounds like a wonderful young man. But look, I'm now way conscious of the time and I love this conversation mainly because of the, certainly the story, but then how it shapes the way sport and the way that you've certainly thrived through the businesses. A couple of questions to to round us out in some respects, but I'm interested in the technical aspects. You run a business. You've been striving. You run businesses, yes, and you said that you're on the beach, barbader, bahamas. Sorry, in.
Speaker 1:Bahamas. Yes in Bahamas Sunset you were doing a job. You're doing it for someone else. You didn't like that. You came back, you left, you started running businesses. Right, I describe what you have as a portfolio. You have this portfolio of businesses that enables you to probably explore and find success in the elements that you love, without a lot of the rubbish you hate. But yeah, tell me, when you were thinking of these businesses, how did you say to yourself what is that motivation, what is that drive to do it yourself?
Speaker 2:It's the whole thing of proving it to myself that I can do it and I'm worthy. The it's the whole thing of proving it to myself that I can do it and I'm worthy. It all goes back to that. So I've always worked in other people's businesses and made them a lot of money. The last guy I worked for multi-millionaire. He used to buy businesses and bring them in and say write me a strategy, make it successful. That's your job as well as run the business. We were in the embroidery business and I did it and I loved it because it was his money, I could take the risk and I found it easy there's no real fear.
Speaker 1:He's saying it's his money.
Speaker 2:He also used to say things like if I'm a multi-millionaire, if you fail, I'm still a multi-millionaire, it's all on you.
Speaker 2:So again, it was that whole trigger from yeah which is why it's a whole trigger from that childhood again that just kept eating up inside of me. I had to keep, keep proving myself. But I got to a point where I was like I'm that beach of armors, why am I proving myself? I've already ticked this box so many times in the businesses I was managing director in, in the healthcare business, everything that I've worked in the hotel business. I'd already done all these things. So I thought now the only thing I haven't done is done it for myself and really given myself the reward, because it's always for someone else. Yeah, so that was it. I saw what I can do, this and I'm gonna do it. And it was a big risk.
Speaker 2:I stood with my other half and I said you're not gonna like this, but I'm leaving my job. And he went. What I said? I've got no job to go to, but here's my plan. I wrote a business plan. I presented it to him and my dad who's my worst critic and will always give me some blunt truths and I know I'm doing things right if he agrees and I presented it to them and obviously there was loads of fear and it was our life savings I've put into this business that still hasn't paid us back yet, but should do, and he was just really supportive.
Speaker 2:He said I feel I think, this is insane, but you've done it before. You've always proved it to me. And he said I guess all I can do is say you're not happy, I don't want you to be unhappy. I believe in you. Go for it. And he has. But we've had. It's not been easy. We've had. I've gone from having a six-figure salary and bonuses and not worried about money and had ridiculous amounts each one. And I'm only saying that to emphasize the point, as I've gone to a point where I had nothing in the bank either of us.
Speaker 1:I'm the main breadwinner. So once I moved away from work.
Speaker 2:His role isn't one where you can progress and get more salary. It's government. He can't improve, he can't go. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna get a promotion and get more money. This is what we get. So we've had to go back, make setbacks, sell things just, and then make every day, wake up and still be driven to drive these businesses with the belief that I'm now three years down the line and I was going to work. So it's not been easy. But yeah, I told you this I make a decision and it's on the list, but it's on the goalsosling I fold up and now it's on a shelf in my office.
Speaker 1:That's where I am I was thinking it must be up there because you were looking up there it's like it must be there now unless you're in a thingy bed.
Speaker 2:But yeah it's not a shell. It's on a shelf with my medal. It's up there, so it's on a shelf with the medal so it's in the room where I make things happen. This is where I do the work, this is where I make the focus where I do the podcast yeah that whole mindset I've, it's on the list, I've got to do it and I'm going to work till it happens.
Speaker 1:So yeah, wonderful, two questions left one. What's next?
Speaker 2:I don't know jamaican saying. I think it's a jay saying I got it from my aunt. He always says to me what is meant for you won't pass you by. And so when?
Speaker 2:I go through tough times. I say that out loud and when I want something bad enough, I always think back to that. If it's meant to be, it's all going to happen, and so a lot of things at the moment, because I feel like I'm giving out to the world, the universe, and I'm doing a lot of things at the moment because I feel like I'm giving out to the world, the universe, and I'm doing a lot proactively so.
Speaker 2:I'm coaching at our local rugby club. I'm playing. I'm playing in bristol at my rugby club. I'm training for jamaica. I'm about to go out towards jamaica. I'm supporting my son and driving him everywhere to get to all his international trials and everything and then his games. I'm putting loads of effort into my two companies. I'm going out in my business consulting, fixing other people's businesses. All of these things I'm giving out. I literally keep going through these moments where something comes back to me.
Speaker 2:So the most recent, one where I feel like I'm in this bubble at the moment where I do all of those things and then things just happen and I'm like that's what I wanted, thank god, and the one was being reselected for this game. So I'm actually playing 15 the first time. It'll be my first cat 15, jamaica in Jamaica. So I'm going home, going back to the country with my country yeah, where my family will be to get my first cat for 15 and my grandfather decided to pass away a year and a half ago during this process.
Speaker 2:So again, when I talk about that feeling, I get it's been amplified yet again. So not only now I'm playing my second country, which is I never thought would happen. I'm playing in my in the country for my family grandfather now, who you know was the first one to say when will you ever do anything for jamaica? It is for him, it's all for him, and in his name and with my family yeah, so it.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm on cloud nine. How lucky am I at my age to be given these opportunities all the time? And I say look. I don't always believe it's, look, because I do work hard, I do. You know myself, through hell, the training that I? Don't want to put myself out in my competition.
Speaker 2:I know I'm not going to achieve all these things. Yeah, all those ultimate goals, yeah, but what's next, I don't know. But I'm loving where I am right now. I want those businesses to be super successful. I want to keep giving back. I need to find a name for my superpower so that I can describe it better and feel confident in talking about it. Because even saying superpower, just then I cringe a little bit because there are the friends. Well, I call them friends, but they're the ones that are judgy and I know that when I say some of these things to them, they only see netball, Danny, they don't see rugby Danny. They and I know that when I say some of these things to them, they only see netball Danny. They don't see rugby Danny. They don't see business Danny, they don't get the whole me, which on this podcast, I guess I've given an element of netball Danny, rugby Danny and me business Danny. That's right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's the unique thing I'm giving on these motivational talks in the schools, in the businesses, and that, for me, is a vulnerable place to be.
Speaker 1:But also maybe the superpower it could well be, and thanks for, but thanks quite simply for being open on this and I'm enjoying our conversation. And the last question really is so the for that next crop of players, athletes coming through who are listening to this. I've watched, I've joined us on this journey and they're thinking how do I find my second wind, how am I going to keep on going, how am I going to keep getting those marginal gains? What success would you give, sorry. What advice, what guidance based on your experience would you give? Oh, sorry, what advice, what guidance based on your experience would you give to them to, quite simply, to best prepare for what might come next to them?
Speaker 2:wow, that's a really great question. There's a huge responsibility in this answer. You know what, when I meet these kids, when I do this talk, I will ultimately I say to them if you want something bad enough, you can have it, and never forget that. And I talk about a formula to success when I'm in these presentations because I try and break down this very large, detailed story into something that they can take away. And I talk about my formula to success. And the formula to success is all about ability multiplied by effort, multiplied by attitude, can give you what you desire. So what I talk about in the ability is about forever learning.
Speaker 2:I am, I've never stopped learning every day. I've learned loads from you today in this conversation. I've learned loads by talking about my own journey again just today, because I have realisation. I learn loads in every business scenario talking to my son. I learn from everyone I meet and that's what I love about people, that's what I love about the world.
Speaker 2:And if you're humble enough to learn from every experience and not think you know it, well, I know a lot and I know I'm very good at what I do and I do go into businesses and dictate as a director or as the strategic person that they brought in, but also I'm standing there thinking this guy's in a different this guy's business. He set it up in a different way than I've ever done. His journey is different. I can actually learn loads from him because there's another way of doing something, because nobody's journey is the same. So I preach you must learn. Every day I'm learning and I like to sit and think at the end of the day when I get into bed. I'm still talking to myself what have I learned? So always learn effort. Effort isn't just about getting up and turning up to training. It's about and I know it's cheesy it is about doing the extra.
Speaker 2:It's about I have promised myself, as soon as I got selected I go outside and I do passes with a ball on my left side or right side 50 kicks and they have to be actually make with intention, get to the point I need it to in the run-up to this tournament. Those are the things that are guaranteed that other people won't be doing, because they'll take for granted their position, or they have already made the team, or they just think they're going to get in because of the training sessions they've been to. It's those little extra things. If the research I do into someone else's business, it's going to spend time with someone that doesn't know me, because actually I'm there drawing all of their great things to learn from it, because I want to do what they're doing. That's what I'm talking about with effort, not just turning up to training have to do.
Speaker 2:And then attitude. I talk about attitude all the time. You can have a bad attitude. You have a good attitude and I have both of them at times. It depends what situation you're in and where you're at, but what I try and do is correct myself from the way I was brought up. So I was brought up very strict. No answer that swearing is only in situations where I do swear, but not very often because I don't think I need to use it. But I definitely wouldn't swear in front of my elders, in front of my parents to this day, just because it's a respecting culture. So it's just.
Speaker 2:When I talk about attitude, I talk about what attitude I'm choosing to have in that moment, in that situation I'm in, on that netball court. What attitude do I need to have? And it will all depend on those around me and the situation I'm in. So do I need to have, and it will all depend on those around me and the situation I'm in. So if my role in that netball game or rugby game is to be the experienced one and to put the effort in knowing that the other players around me are better than me, that's the role I'll take and that's the attitude I have.
Speaker 2:And I have to sacrifice the glory hunting or the interception that's going to give the experience, give the motivation and give the confidence to the others and join, connect the team. But sometimes I can go on there, especially in netball now, where I find it a lot easier versus rugby. I can go on a net into a netball game and know I'm the strongest player, know they all rely on me to deliver my performance. So I'll focus on getting the interception working till I can't breathe, knowing that I can sweep later, but I've got to burn myself out to deliver a performance for the rest of the team. So when I talk about attitude, forget I have a good attitude and a bad attitude. It's about having the right attitude in the right situation that you're in, and all those things together, I think, will give you what I hunt for the success, the happiness, the adrenaline.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it, that recipe for success recipe yeah, still that piece sounds better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's yours. There you go, recipe for success. But I think it is that's what you described. And the ingredients we all understand the ingredients and some of those we even apologize. Sometimes you have to do the extras. It's's, it's what we know exists. It's like you put egg in it. Yeah, that's the reason. We all know what it takes, but whether or not you're prepared to go ahead and do it. So I've just got to say, danielle, thank you so much for joining me on the show. I've really appreciated your company, the stories, um and so, and certainly some of the insights as well. So thanks very much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you. It's been great to speak to you and to feel comfortable enough to talk about this. I thought I'd hold some stuff back, but I have given you a lot of raw, honest feedback. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it, thanks. Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy Until next time.
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