Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

162: Dr Chris Platts - A Better Way to Navigate Your Career After Sport

• Ryan Gonsalves • Episode 162

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Chris Platts spent over a decade tracking the careers of 303 young footballers. The result? A raw, honest look at what actually happens in the world of professional sport. Some players made it to the Premier League. Others left with nothing. Many fell somewhere in between.

Chris is a career coach and academic whose work focuses on helping athletes and their families plan for the long game. He works directly with clubs, players, and parents to map out possible futures, reduce pressure, and help athletes stay grounded in who they are, even as the industry pushes them to become something else.

In this conversation, Ryan and Chris unpack the highs and lows of football careers and what it takes to move forward once the playing days slow down or stop completely. If you're transitioning out of sport or supporting someone who is, this episode is packed with insight you won’t hear inside most locker rooms.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why most athletes and families never ask, “What do we actually want from sport?”
  • The hidden risks of chasing success without a plan
  • How under-21 contracts can leave players stuck with no proof they’re ready for the next level
  • Why it’s smart to plan for both success and failure
  • How to reduce emotional and financial stress by building a personal “career playbook”
  • What clubs want vs. what players need
  • What it really means to be prepared for life after sport
  • Why “hope” isn’t enough when you’re trying to build a stable future

💎 GOLDEN NUGGET:
“Hope is not a strategy. But planning helps young players stay present, stay ready, and remember who they are, no matter what happens next.”

If you're at any point of your post-sport career journey, this conversation will help you ask better questions, make clearer decisions, and feel more in control of what’s next.

Connect with Ryan and Second Wind Academy:

Credits:

  • Editing: Nancy at Savvy Podcast Solutions
  • Design: Claire at Betty Book Design
  • Show Notes: Cerise from Copy & Content by Lola


Speaker 1:

So, given this, given this world that you described, this, I guess, truthful view and evidence-backed view on where sport can take a child, but what also can happen, that trajectory as you say, what's that advice to parents, to players, to navigate it?

Speaker 2:

So engage. And then the second is early and they kind of go together. The earlier you can start to talk about these things, the better. It's not as horrible as you think it's not. You're just going to sit, as hopefully we've shown here. You're just going to sit there and tell me that my dreams are like this fanciful thing and to give up on it. Never that, but the reactionary thing which you mentioned earlier on of oh, I'm now 23 and I've been earning £2,000 a week, been living on that money and now I can't see another contract coming. That is a much worse position to be in.

Speaker 3:

Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people after all. Let's be inspired by the stories of others.

Speaker 1:

Chris, welcome to the show. Good to have you on here today. Thanks for having me. Absolutely my pleasure indeed. And look, I'm much interested because there's a few questions, as we were sort of preparing to have you on the show and one of the big elements of your work that it focuses on around sport is around the possibility of great success and necessary evil in play development and I'm quite intrigued just to understand some of the research that you're doing as an advocate for for player care in in football, and you know I'm. I think it's just great that you're on the show because I think for those who listen, uh and watch this usually are either athletes in the throes of transition or are those in and around athlete well-being and education. So it's looking forward for you to educate me a little bit as we go through this. So apologies if I do ask a lot of questions. I'll say it's for a friend, but I'll keep going.

Speaker 2:

No that, as I guess a lot of people say, no stupid questions. The more, the more questions, the better. That's what I would say to athletes parents. You know, if it's in there, you've got to get it out, you gotta get the question out's what I would say to athletes parents. You know, if it's in there, you've got to get it out, you gotta get the question out. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it yeah, oh, absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'll definitely keep firing away now for those who are definitely, you know, watching and listening, they're going to be asking great. So, um, you know what is an advocate of, you know player care and what is the research. So I really want to delve into a bit of that as we go through the show. But can we start off with you giving us sort of your view or your I'm going to say infomercial, on sort of who you are and what you do?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, of course. So I'm Dr Chris Platts and I'm a career coach working in professional football. So I've got a PhD to examine the lives of 303 young players and I'm also the author of the largest independent study into career trajectories. Now what that means is I can now work with clubs, parents, young players so that they can do three things we work so that they can predict the future. We work so they can then plan for that future, and in doing that, the third thing is they reduce negative stresses that impact on life and also, of course, on performance. The aim, the end goal of what I'm doing is to show people and make sure that, through this journey in football, we can have young people who are thriving in the game and then in their wider lives as well.

Speaker 1:

That is so interesting. The three bits you mentioned there predict the future from a career perspective perspective, plan for it and reduce that negative stress. Now, stress is, I think, quite a big word and often used word when we're looking at, well, any anyone's career but sport, but something you're looking towards that future. So what do you mean by those reduced reduction, reduction of negative stress yeah.

Speaker 2:

so the the principle in terms of what I do is built on the idea of shifting power from clubs and putting it in the hands of parents and young players now. So a little bit like you know steve jobs idea of let's take the, let's take the technology that nasa have got and put it in the hands of everybody, it's sort of it's the same idea. There are things that clubs can't tell young players and their families there are. There's the inside game that goes on. There's the politics, there's the strategies that occur behind the scenes. Now, using data, qualitative and quantitative, we can sit with parents and young players and show them how this is going to play out. Okay, In doing that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, go on. So when you say how this is going to play out now, when we talk well, actually I should say for everyone so, football, soccer, but not always stick with football. But I just know the others are going oh, does he mean rugby, does he mean American, does he mean Australian? It's like no, no, we're talking football, football. But when you talk about how this career will pan out, so are you your definition of, or in fact, tell me, what is your definition of, career in this context?

Speaker 2:

So to me, I would use the widest sense of a career, as in the time in which you start being paid for some sort of labor to the point at which you finish being paid for that labor, and so in that scenario, let's use it as an example. Ok, I'll tell a little bit of a story. A young player and mum come to me and say right, he's 15, looks like he's going to get a scholarship at a professional football club. We've never been through this before. Okay, let's sit down. I've got 303 players here and I will show you what they said about the next two years of their lives. Okay, so, from 16 to 18,. I will then show you what happened to those 303 players, from the age of 18 up to the age of 28. And in doing that, we can look at all the scenarios as they play out along that 10 year. Well, for this kid it's going to be the next 13 years, right, and we can talk about them. And we're talking about them when you're 15. So, everything from so, in the sample that I have, I have some players who went and played in the Premier League, played for England, still playing for England. I have some who went to prison, right? So in all that, the strapline of Premier League to prison and everything in between, all the moves they made, all the loans they made, those who struggled financially when they retired I've noted that.

Speaker 2:

And the power of the data is, it isn't me sat at the other side of a screen or sat over a coffee preaching saying I think you should do this. It's me saying look at the data, what do you think? And that's why I use the term career coach, because in a coaching sense, maybe not all coaches do this, but for me, coaches should do this. It's about helping players. Let's say whatever sport American football, soccer, whatever it might be you can't play the game for everybody. So coaching is about building scenarios. So they start to figure out this game for themselves. Right, and that's what I do. I will sit down and I will build a scenario based on the characteristics of this child. So let's say, this child is going to a Category 1 academy, right, they're at a whatever. It might be an Arsenal or what.

Speaker 1:

So when you say characteristics, because this is the bit, and I suppose we, and perhaps to give this that context, I'm keen almost to perhaps walk through the three parts that you, you discussed, from predicting, planning and then reducing that stress, so perhaps it's more sensible to think of it in that way yeah, yeah, yeah so.

Speaker 1:

So let's do that now. So I'm interested then in what those characteristics are that you're looking at, for perhaps you know, if we're, if we're in step one, that prediction, what are the characteristics that you're looking at from? Is it the individual, their environment, the clubs? Talk us through that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it would be all. That's a really good example to pick that up. So, excuse me, the first thing we would do in that scenario is start with why. So we'd sit down. Let's say it's you, ryan, all right, we sit down with you and your parents or your guardians, whoever it might be. Um, the first thing is why are you going into this? All right, simon sinex, isn't it? Start with why, yes, why are you? Yeah, what are you trying to get out of football? And the reason we start with that is that provides a foundation for the decisions that will map through the rest of this career. So, again, let me give you a story.

Speaker 2:

I sat down just last night with a parent and child and he's had some bad news in terms of being released. Okay, let's go back to your foundations. What were the foundations? Why do you? Why are you playing football? Because I love it.

Speaker 2:

When we talked about this, you say you said you'd play for free. So this pressure that you're bringing is being brought on yourself and that environment around you, those people who are in your network of relationships, right, and we also talked about you know what is it you want to get out of football. Well, you said enjoyment. Your mum and dad said I want him to play with a smile on his face. I want him to have some purpose. It's pretty much what all parents will say, the same as anybody wants for their kid's purpose direction in life, something that gives them some purpose. It's pretty much what all parents will say, the same as anybody wants for their kid's purpose direction in life, something that gives them some confidence.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and in all of that, if you were released, do mom and dad still love you? Yeah, they said that they don't, and sometimes that can be a difficult conversation for mom and dad if they're putting a lot of money into this, but it gets them to start thinking yeah, what are we trying to get out of this? We're not trying to get out of this just a professional contract. We're trying to get out of this a scenario where our child is happy, has a purpose and if money comes with it, great. But this first thing that we would be doing would be saying you know, if Ryan gets released or he goes all the way to 21 and then turns around to you and says I don't want to do this anymore, are you still going to love him? Of course we will. Okay, have you ever said that to him? Well, he knows that. No, say it. Say it because these are kids and he's 15 and all this can start to build, so we start with that. Why?

Speaker 1:

So how different are the children's responses at that point from one another? You know what variants.

Speaker 2:

Not that, not that you know what variants, yeah, not that, not that. And and as soon as you start to, I think the interesting thing for me with with it is they aren't that different. But it's really interesting how few people start there. If I, if I was to sit with a parent and challenge said right, what is it you're trying to get out of football? Have you ever thought about that? Most will go.

Speaker 2:

Not really, because what happens with this sort of this and I would say this occurs in all elite sport is it's a bit like jumping into a river and then the current pulls you and what happens is at six or seven, somebody says your lad's good, oh, oh, thank you. And what happens is at six or seven, somebody says your lad's good, oh, thank you. And that makes you feel good. And then you say to the kid do you want to go to Leeds United? They want you to see if you, yeah, yeah, because I'm loving football, oh, and they think you're good, so you go.

Speaker 2:

Now, never at that point do you stop and think we're taking our child into a business here and we're giving this kid to a business, and that business that's called Leeds United is going to want to try and make money from my kid. Most people don't think that. Why would you Six? So you go there and then it's like they are good. And then again, most, most kids, if you ask them at five or six, won't say. If you ask them why you'd be, why you're playing football, most won't say because I want to be a professional footballer. Okay, some will, and but even those who do have no true comprehension of what an actual professional footballer is.

Speaker 1:

That's right yeah, they won't know it. But yeah, they may say it, but it is probably again, I think, as we go into this, because they're enjoying playing football and their favourite player looks great up there.

Speaker 2:

It's the feeling isn't it.

Speaker 2:

It's the hairs on the back of the neck stand up, it's the feel of the ball when you first pick it up. It's the smell of it, it's all. And then they're starting to get some external validity from this, from parents, coaches going you're good, you're good. And so, bit by bit, you realize that sometimes by the time kids are 13, 14, 15, they've never stopped and the parents have never stopped, to think what are we doing? Because it's been like jumping into a river and it sort of just pulled you and then things start to get in the river. This is why I use the river as a metaphor.

Speaker 2:

At 14, 15, 16, things start to get a bit more choppy. There's a few more rocks in the river that you've got to try and get around, because the selection starts happening and it becomes more competitive and parents start to become a bit more aware of environments which are much more strict and Perhaps coaches are a bit more forceful in their messaging and shout a bit more. But it's like this is academy football. So, yeah, we are like high-performance environments only now, and they're being told it's high performance, even though we might debate about that. So that is why, by 14, 15, we start with that conversation and getting a parent and a player to get on their career playbook, because that's what I developed with them Right. What are we trying to achieve? You realize, one of the fundamental problems with player care in football clubs is that what the club is wanting and what the player is wanting are two different things.

Speaker 1:

Very much so, very much so. And I think you, describing that at six years, seven years old, whatever age that child starts to or actually it's not the child, but those around the child start to recognize there's some, um, fundamental opportunity for this in, for this child to be good at that sport. There's something, I'll say potential. Yeah, not that right, but there's some. There's something there. Yeah, there's something there that suggests this kid's going to be great and, yes, you've got, be it a club, or indeed I would say, be it an association or a sporting body, if it's not down the pro league, who recognizes we can win with that. We can, meaning money, success, medals, whatever that might be, which is probably not where certainly the child is thinking at that point. You know not, not in real terms and perhaps something like you say the parent hasn't written down or hasn't really looked at and said hey, is this? Do we have the same motivations here?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and it's why you've got to the flip side of that another good. You know, for people who are listening, if you are a parent, flip it round and ask yourself the question when they scout my child, do they look and think that's somebody we could turn into a really good citizen, that's somebody we could develop into, somebody who's going to go out into the world and make a real dent in the universe? No, they go. That's somebody who we can turn into, something that is an asset for our organization, business body, whatever it might be.

Speaker 2:

Now, when you and it sounds sort of, oh, that's a bit looking down on it, it's not, it's just a realistic starting point that you must have, point that you must have. Otherwise, all the things that we're going to talk about in terms of the next steps, the decisions you're going to make, are fundamentally you're, you're clouded, you're not clear when you're thinking about what you are doing, because you're the only person that's on your child's team. Really, really, when, really, when it comes down to it, you know, you make me think there's another lady.

Speaker 1:

we'll have to get you together after this, Sky Eddy, she joined the show a while back, yeah, so she was on, met her when she was over.

Speaker 1:

It was great, actually Catched up with her when she was in Sydney. But from, yeah, yeah, soccer, parenting and and what you are, really what you've emphasized just in this first question of why, why are you playing football? What you're looking to get, how do you want football to serve you? What do you want for your child, it really starts to put this um well, I'll say a pressure, because there there's a stress, there's a, there's a thought that has to come then into. The parent has to ask himself about their own motives for supporting their child's uh wish or desires in in, uh in sport, and I don't know how many of us are ready for that it's difficult.

Speaker 2:

I mean the other, I would say with this, and I have met um parents who have got in touch with me because the stress that that is putting on the family makeup of our mum and dad. Mum and dad haven't had this conversation because and often it's it's not the parents fault, because life is busy, hectic ones. They've both got jobs. They're having to leave a job early to get them to the training, so by the time they get home it's like right, let's get meal prep ready for the next day. And all of a sudden, three years have passed and there's never been the point because life is just hectic where, when the kids have maybe gone to bed, they've sat down and gone right.

Speaker 2:

Hang on, what are they are? They are using our child and I know that sounds horrible, but let's just be really blunt about it they are using our child for their ends. So what are we using this process for? For our child's ends, like what? What's the goal for him? Because and that's why I want them to be in a place going right, hang on, when we sat down with chris, we said that our ends for our kid were have you got that? You know? And and to me. That's where I think the the value in doing what I'm doing is is is getting parents to have some space away from a club to open that conversation I think it's brilliant.

Speaker 1:

I mean I'm I'm all in on on this and it is fascinating because some of the work and a question I'm going to ask you is how different are the parent responses? I understand the child, but the parent. But let me tell you one of the bits that's really fascinating. So a lot of the work I do at one of the rugby league clubs here in australia. So at the rabbit toes, come in. We'll often see some of the young league clubs here in Australia. So at the Raboteau's, come in.

Speaker 1:

We'll often see some of the young players coming in who are, I say, looking for that scholarship equivalent but looking to get on the development, the squad. And I'll often sit with the parents and I will chat to them at 17, 18. And my role as that career coach there is to speak to them and actually say so, what do you want, what are you looking for, what are you doing outside of the game? You know, how are you thinking of yourself as this whole person? And it's interesting if I were to turn and say to those parents well, that's great for them. What are you looking to get out of it? What do you, how do you want to support that, but that's the question that you're asking them, and I actually think that question would be responded to very differently by the parents based on socioeconomic, cultural, heritage backgrounds. So I'm curious, as you asked that question what sort of differences do you get from parents?

Speaker 2:

I think you'd be surprised that there's more similarity than difference. I really do. And there's been the odd parent who's kind of flippantly said you know Range Rover? And I thought, hmm, was that a flippant comment or is that? And you know I'll push back going. Do you mean that? Come on cards on the table? Is this something but most people understand when they're bringing up a child, that it is purpose, happiness, contentment, relationships and, ironically, this aligns with the research.

Speaker 2:

When you, if you go into read, just what do parenting research, what do kids need? All right, um, as a new dad, I listen to some parenting podcasts and things, and some of the parenting podcasts have strayed into sport, so great, but it's the same sort of stuff. When you think about what do I want for my kids? I want them to have purpose. I want them to have good relationships, so that means friends and whether that becomes a relationship, romantic relationship. I want them to have a job where they can pay the bills. I want them to have a job where they can pay the bills. I want to have a roof over their head, um direction in life and an idea that they know who they are and and, whatever happens, I want them to have a belief that they're a good person, they can go on and make some sort of impact and influence people big.

Speaker 2:

Most parents will say those things. They will say when I'm happiest is when my kid has a smile on his face, and ironically, that's also when he plays the best I like him to. What do I want from him? I want this to get him out of bed in the morning. You know, the good thing about football is it's like something that he can't wait to do. Well, that's what we want. You know, wouldn't it be great if we had a job where that's what you know? My kids grow up and they go oh, dad, I want to be a bus driver. Well, that's great if that gets you out of bed in the morning going I love driving the bus around. You go, you knock yourself out. That's fine for me.

Speaker 1:

So most people, when they're really pressed to think about it, get to that point yeah, and that's right, and I think it's that, um, it's, it's stripping back that value and getting to that ultimately. And whilst we say yeah, there's that flippant aspect, if perhaps it's more, I I wonder and I want to get into the sort of more of the prediction piece. But I think the bit going to my mind is, if we were doing a values assessment, so as you look at the value of what they say, um, from a word, from a frequency of word, and the number, the words that come out first, I want to be happy, I want to be proud, I want to have purpose, I want to be then I'm wondering what's next After the top three, what comes and where does? But how does that ranking shift as they go through that career? And you know, perhaps, as we go through that stress, you know where does that change, based on what's next, you know, for them?

Speaker 2:

Yes. So perhaps, to conclude, this happiness comfortably comes out on top, comfortably comes out on top. If you do I've done it via post-it notes and then word clouds, I've done it via anonymous filling on your phone that happiness comfortably comes out on top, comfortably comes out on top. But the point of doing what we're doing at the point we're doing it. So the point of sitting down and saying what are you trying to get out of this and why at the point we're doing it. So the point of sitting down and saying what are you trying to get out of this and why at the start, is because you know, when you're 18 and you've got to make a call, you need to return to those foundations because as you go, the clubs, incentives, even things like hearsay from other parents, agents getting in touch with you what will they do? They will seek, they are all things that will shake those foundations if you lose sight of them.

Speaker 2:

So the perspective is right. I'm 20, um, do I go out on loan and get games? Do I? Oh, there's another contract, but it's only for a year. Go back to your, go back to these foundations. What is it? Go back to that.

Speaker 2:

What are you trying to get out of football. You're still there because the stories of those players who didn't do that, who moved for money, who moved because they were promised all these things and thought that, well, the club says this, so why would they lie? And I mean we could write three books on examples of where that's gone wrong, because it was players who didn't remain true to foundations of okay. Through all of this and I've done it, you know, and again, it aligns with other literature and research on jobs, people who've walked away from big corporate jobs because they've gone. I've lost who I am here Like. I'm doing this for a different reason and that's why we need to do that. The tricky part with elite sport is, of course, that this happens much earlier in the process than it probably does in other industries yeah, that's right and like you say it will be.

Speaker 1:

It's always good because I think, tip, you know, by the time an intervention comes or someone's transition out of career, you're trying to go back to this point where we say, sit back, close your eyes. When you were 15, when you were 14, when you really started to recognize you had talent, what did you want to get out of it, and so it's great that you're capturing it at this moment and and so moving us through. Then, this, this, this bit, you talk about predicting the future. Now you've. So I'm I'm, I'm thinking all sorts of things here, but I'm like tell me, what do you mean by prediction and what is this future? Because we might be stopping recording about to make billions here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's it. So how this works is we've got comfortably the biggest sample that we can get hold of the Premier League. Throw data out there, but getting hold of what that data is, I've not been able to do it. I've not seen anybody else who's been able to do it. So we've got a really big sample of players and we've got 10 years. We can then plug you into that data.

Speaker 2:

So let's say, okay, category one, let's take all the players who were at the Premier League club right when they were 16 to 18, because that's the group that you're in. What are the different ways in which the 10 years played out for that group of people? By doing that, and it isn't then saying, oh, we're just going to look at. Oh well, look at that person. That person's still in the game at 10 and they're still on. You know, I've looked online and they're on 60 grand a week. Okay, that's one. That's one of 27 different scenarios that we need to be talking about right here right now. Okay, and that includes the, the one that you really perhaps don't want to talk about, the one that you really perhaps don't want to talk about, which is you've got a contract at 18, you got nothing then at, let's say, you got a two-year contract at 18, you got nothing the year after, two years after, and then you went straight into semi-professional football, hated it and five years later you were completely out of the game. Okay, we need to look at all of those. Yeah, because and here's the other thing we're predicting the future like that is, we can and we set those scenarios up. You need to be equally prepared for if you in inverted commas make it, because what is making it? We have to define that. If you have a career on 60 grand a week, you need to be prepared for that. You really do just as much as if you fall out the game Again.

Speaker 2:

Another story I've got a player at the moment. He's going through trials at clubs where he's about to be paid. Now, if that trial comes off, his next step in this is he's going and he's working with some financial advisors now, before he's got the money, and asking them what do you think I should do? We're working one-on-one. He's bringing all that data back, so he's doing it. He's empowered here, Sit down, write. It's probably going to be like three or four financial advisors.

Speaker 2:

What have they all said? What are the commonalities? Let's get a plan now, because if somebody suddenly gives you 60 grand a week, you've got a problem. We know from the research that once you get that amount of money, who do you trust becomes a problem. Everybody's going to want to give you financial advice. Everybody's going to want to be your friend. Being crude about it, a lot of people are going to want to sleep with you. So we know that relationships are difficult. Financial advice becomes difficult. I want people to be like that's all right, we did this two years ago. Okay, that's what they said when I had no money. Is what they're saying now?

Speaker 2:

I've got money the same or kind of different and in that scenario we'd sit down with a financial advisor going I'm on 200 pound a week. I'm on eight grand a week. I'm on 60 grand a week. What would your advice be on those different things? By the way, I haven't got that money now. So don't think you can give me some advice and take me for a ride, because I've got 60 grand a week. I've not got it, but I might do. So. You give me some really good advice and I might come back to you. That's a much better place to be in and you can see now how we're, under the mantra of predicting the future, we're working through all these scenarios so that nothing comes up as a surprise.

Speaker 1:

All these scenarios so that nothing comes up as a surprise and in doing that, the engagement to think. I mean what you're doing. Let me put it a different way. You're telling someone your dream's not going to work. So I'm going to give you some other scenarios. Who are you to tell me that my dream's not going to work? I don't want to do that. I just want to focus on being the best I can be.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I would never do that. That is why we plan for, if you get 60 grand a week, so I would look into, I mean, the the. The statistic of 0.012% is flawed in so many ways and I keep seeing that. So I I throw this back saying we have to define what making it is. But let's say, your dream. You came to me going look, chris, I'm going to do it, I'm going to make it, I'm going to get 60 grand a week, I'm going to play for whoever your favorite team is, dunno, right, okay, who am I to sit here? By the way, I've never seen you play. So who am I to sit here and say that's just not going to happen? All right, but what I will show you is because in my data there are people who are doing that, and who am I to say that you're not going to be that person in the data? I'm not, and in some respects, if there's a frustration I have with things I see on social media and people working in this, it's that we try hammering home to kids. Try hammering home to kids. 1%, only 1%, make it. You know, 99% of you lot aren't going to be here.

Speaker 2:

If you were 14, 15, what would you do if somebody said that? You'd say and, by the way, because we're no different, you know, we say to people don't drink, don't do that, because that's bad for your health. Exercise five times a week, and the majority of people in society will go. I know, I know, I kind of, but I don't really enjoy that, so I don't do that. And then, by the way, if I have a stroke, then I change my diet and my exercise regimes, right, when it happens. So let's not go about pretending somehow that people are involved in football or any difference to the rest of the population. Right, that is how we all react. Yeah, so I would never sit here going, no, this isn't going to happen. So I say this is all plan A, this is all plan A, and I'm here for you to talk as much about. If you go on and win a world cup Okay, because, by the way, if I work with you and you go and win a World Cup, then I probably will be in the money. If you'd say, okay, chris Blatt was great because years ago he helped me and now I've won a World Cup, I'll be able to retire. So I'm never going to talk to you about that. But what I am saying is, if we talk about it all now, you are more present in your career. That's where the reduction in stress comes from, and I'll give you an example of that.

Speaker 2:

We know from the data that when you sign a contract at 18, in the next five years you're likely to be moving five times. So on average, in the first five years of a professional contract, from 303 players, there were five moves in the first five years. Five. Two of those were loan deals. You're here for six months, you're there for a season.

Speaker 2:

There are very few other industries. We might talk about the military, probably the arts, dancers okay, that align with that. But if we're talking about that, when you're 15, 16, with your parents, we're able to put a plan in place. We're able to talk about the finances of it, so that when those deals happen not if when those moves come you've got a plan, you've already spoke about it, it's not a surprise to you and you're able to actually embrace those moves for what they are, which is a chance for you to go and show the world that you're good. You're not thinking, oh, you know, I'm missing my kid. You know, I didn't really think this through. So now I'm going to have to just go into like a hotel room for the first couple of weeks and then I'll sort out some other accommodation.

Speaker 2:

We've spoken about all of this. We've looked at the struggles that people have when they're on loan deals and now you're in a place where you're able to say you know, for the six months when I get on that green piece of grass, here I am, yeah, I'm able to be Ryan, I'm able to show the world that I'm a good footballer, because all the other things off the pitch is planned. We've talked about it. I'm so much more calm because I'm not there thinking unless I get this, where's the next bit of money coming from? Unless I do this, if I don't perform now, I need to get on this pitch and this needs to be the best game I've ever played. If you're in that mind space, as a footballer, you're in trouble. You need to be on there going. This is a relationship between me, the, this pitch, these players. Go and be who I am. That's where you need to be and by taking the pressure from all of those other career life things, that's where you're in a better place.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I like it because the concepts you've got a plan and recognizing that the plan can change is is actually part of it. It's like, yeah, I've got a plan and I'm prepared for it to change, and there are certain things that I've got a scenario for. And when you talk about that reduction in negative stress, I mean for me, I I use it as this recognizing you, you're more than a player or more. If you've got something outside of the sport or the game, means that you can be competitive and give it your all, but you're not reckless. Recklessness for me, in this instance, comes when it's like I have to win this tackle, I have to win this, otherwise it's all over. And what do you do? You stretch too far, you get injured. You, you are reckless, you'll take someone out, you, you'll make it worse. But what you're doing is actually, as you say, by reducing that negative stress, you're actually saying to them hey, go going hard for this tackle, you've, you've got options.

Speaker 2:

Don't, but don't, don't be a fool, because you'll get them late and you know the amount of professional players I've spoken to who've gone. I wish I had this when I was like when I was 18, 19. And what's great for me is that they're now in a place of saying you know, I'll try and get you in at my club, because I actually want to give something back to these, to the younger kids. The perception is like oh, they're going to come and try and take my place. Most professional players aren't thinking in that space at all. They're going, yeah, because now, you know, now I'm 32 and I'm financially doing okay, um, and I'm doing a you know, I'm perhaps doing a master's on the side. Um, I am now playing probably better than ever because I'm just freer and I'm in a place of going.

Speaker 2:

If I'd known this when I was 19, when I did step on the pitch thinking right today, okay, chris, today you have got to be like, this has got to be the best thing. And then you make, and then you mistrap the first ball and it's like, oh well, now it can't be the best thing ever, so that's the end of this game. Okay, we all know that that's the scenario. So this is about us getting to a place of them being more present, them understanding what their relationship to football is. So, in all of this, football is a job for me. Yes, it's part of my identity, but it doesn't overrule me. I know that this club is a business. I know that those fans will turn on me or whatever. So this is about me and my relationship with this thing. And now that gets more philosophical. So kids have to be a bit older before we get to that stage, right?

Speaker 1:

But what you've spoken about here, the essence for me, the essence that I'm taking away from this, is getting the player and their loved ones early, sitting down with them, recognizing, because of the research they've got, the wealth of information that you have supports by saying, right, let's describe you. So now let's talk their story, get their characteristics. And that prediction isn't necessarily predicting their future, but what you're doing and predicting the outcomes. Here are some outcomes from my research, from people who've been in your position. This is where they've come to.

Speaker 1:

And that planning piece is saying, well, it's like we do for training, it's our scenario plan. It's like so, here's what we could do here, go and do the research, here's what we could do there. And that, because they've got this plan, this comfort on, actually I think I know where I may end up or what might happen, but I feel prepared for it. I feel I feel prepared to move five times. I've already got my bag because I'm ready for that and you know, these are things that that's the essence of what your research has. Um, well, you've, you've found, but then you've also been able to do, you know, for this generation coming through.

Speaker 2:

The metaphor for it that I have, and let's use the moves as a good example. Imagine coming into a, looking at a table and there's Lego pieces all over. That is how I felt I came to data on player care. There's loads of little sound bites around 0.012 will make it and parents looking at it thinking but how the hell do I make sense of all this information that's coming at me? You know Brexit's happened, so what does that mean for movement of you know, and all these? And it's just little bits here and there.

Speaker 2:

So the program of work that I do is I will help you put those Lego pieces together. I won't put those Lego pieces together and go there. You go, ryan, it's a car, right, I will say I'll put scenarios together. I'll be that little manual that you get with a Lego set and you're going to do it bit by bit and bit by bit you will start going I think this is a car, you know and then you'll do a bit more going. It is a car and then you're going to do a little bit more and bit by bit, you start going. Ah, that's what a career in professional football looks like. I know what a career in professional football looks like. But if I just stand up in front of people saying I'm telling you now this is what a career is like, people will go oh, you're a bit doom and gloom, or you've never played, so I don't.

Speaker 2:

I say here's the story of 303 players who have been in the game. I'll use my research skills over 15 years to help you to put this together and, bit by bit, you're going to go. This is how this is going to play out for us. And if we and oh, okay, so 60 percent of former premier league players end up in financial difficulties after retirement right, so now we know that. And because the parents or players have come to that themselves, they go yeah, let's start thinking about financial planning, let's not get caught in the. Oh, that won't be us, and I and you know. And then you're showing them what people have said in the game around mistrust and dodgy advice, going so. And then eventually they start going yeah, I'm on board with this, let's do this financial stuff now. That's a really good plan. Um, so that's the metaphor for it so, chris, help me understand why.

Speaker 1:

Where did this come from? Why did you begin that study of 303 players? What's that motivation?

Speaker 2:

so that was a phd. I mean, I did a sport, exercise science undergraduate and nothing lit me up on that until two things occurred. I discovered this thing called sociology, which I've never come across before, and it started answering some of the really some of the things that were going through my head, like structural inequalities and class and race and ethnicity and gender and these things, and it explained participation in sport and in, and I was like this is hang on. I've been thinking this like I've played field hockey all my life and thought why, why in england, when we've got a sport that's loved by people in asia and we've got high asian populations, do we not get more? You know these sorts of things. I'm going oh, this is the answer. Here we go. So that's not.

Speaker 2:

And the second thing I would say is then the people who lectured me in that Okay, so I mean I think they're all now professors Professor Dan Bloys, professor Andy Smith, professor Ken Green, I think I hope she's a professor Katie Liston Anyway, she should be Right. So all these people who then really got hold of me and I think thought this kid's got a bit of something, and I went on to do a master's in it and I got a 2.2 undergraduate because I couldn't I was a late bloomer, really but when I got to master's I flew and I got a distinction and I was really good at it, and not only really good at it, but loved it. So I ended up on a PhD, which looked at we have this education and welfare provision and it's written down. It wasn't the EPPP then, but nobody's looked at what the players actually experienced as part of this.

Speaker 1:

You're looking. So you came. As you got into the PhD, you started to look towards football as this thing, and this was before the, the, which is yeah sorry, sorry.

Speaker 2:

Elite elite player performance plan sorry, yeah, use acronyms. So before that we'd had kind of the blueprint for football which came about in the 90s and it was a bit of a let's look at the french model. Howard wilkinson designed this and yeah, and I think he, yeah, that's it. So he had this idea that probably there'd be like I don't know 10, 12 centers around the country which will be the elite of the elite. What, unintentionally, I think. When they came up with this idea of academies and centers of excellence, every club went I oh, we'll have one. So all of a sudden there were 90, right, and so that was where we were at that point in time. Along with that, we put in education and welfare officers in clubs. So this study was it's okay having this in policy and this is sociology, it's okay having this written down, but has anybody asked the people at the end of this, the users, the people who are supposed to be on the end of this, what this is like? So I ended up going to 21 different football clubs from all the leagues, 303 players. They answered questionnaires. I did focus groups with them. It was like 3,600 miles in an Astra up and down the country. So it was a huge study, probably too big to be a PhD, but I didn't know that at the time.

Speaker 2:

A bit naive, and I got into this and probably I would look back now saying that was a period of one to two years being out on the road and starting to analyse the findings. That changed my life, that got me to go. This is this. There's a, there's a career in this, either in academia or as I'm doing now, where nobody's, nobody's asking the views of these kids and the things the kids said to me, their emotions.

Speaker 2:

There we finished one focus group and all it clapped and I thought it's just, it's because nobody's ever asked them how you feeling like, and so they have to walk around with this face on that. They're no, of course, we're good, we're, we're, we're pros, like, we're gonna be pros, we're gonna. You know? Um, so that's how I got into it and from there on it was then well, you've got the names of 383 players. I wonder what's going to happen to them and this cycle of just becoming completely immersed in this world, loving it. I'm now thinking. Now I can make a big difference, because this needs to change, this needs to change in clubs and this needs to change in players lives if we're going to actually have outcomes that anybody wants and I think that's great and I I've been.

Speaker 1:

You know it's funny, as you know, as we're coming together to talk, it was super fascinating because, um, I've always wondered and you've, you've started to answer the question of what happens to players from start, from 15 to 50, right, and you've begun that process. And I think it's wonderful because different studies start at different points. We can go in the US and we can look where they've spoken, or look to all exec executives and recognize a high proportion of them play division one at college or played some level of or did something elite in in some way sporting, wise, and I've always wondered, oh, we need to capture it. There's a study that we had back in England years ago showing the boy at seven, the man at 70, and, and it sort of tracked them through life. And you started to do the same thing here in, in in the, certainly from a football perspective, and bringing that through and it's, um, mostly boys, is it?

Speaker 2:

at this stage it's all males at the moment. So the business that I've got now I still want to keep a research element going because I think there are two things. One I want a study that now starts, probably earlier, because the EPPP, elite Player Performance Plan really opened the door for more academies to start these pre-academy things and I think, a bad idea idea. I think the research backs up early specialization. Early specialization is a problem and what we've, if you look at what, what players, people, kids should be doing between the ages of five and probably 12. The best athletes really want to be doing loads of different things because it's coordination, physical literacy, it's becoming good movers, it's having that good coordination, that good balance, the foundations on which sport is built.

Speaker 2:

What we do by putting kids into academies, pre-academies, from the ages of five or six. I think there are three problems. Number one you're putting them into an adult environment where adults are watching them, and that changes the psychological makeup. So instead of being free on a park where I'm experimenting with what I do, I'm being told, I'm being judged, and a kid for five, six, that then it becomes a professionalized like how do I coach this kid? And in that environment. We've also got coaches who think they know everything and they're coaching five and six-year-olds. It's like just play right. Number two by just focusing on one sport, we narrow down their overall physical development in terms of jumping, balancing on all these things which we could be getting from them playing paddle tennis, basketball, going ice skating, all these other different things. And the third thing is by bringing them in earlier, we increase the chances of burnout, not just in sort of what we might think of oh, I'm exhausted, but getting to an age where they go I'm bored of this. Like this is boring, I don't want to do this anymore. And the longer you can increase, the longer you can keep fun, because we talked about this at the start enjoyment's the number one thing. The longer you can keep fun towards the top of what they are doing, the more that they will play, experiment and these things.

Speaker 2:

So I would like a study which starts earlier. And the reason for that is I get a lot of people getting in touch with me now saying and it was another podcast I was on, actually, all the England team they all started in academies at five and six. So surely we should be having kids in an academy from five and six, because that proves to me that that's where they get. Now, from a research perspective, that's a non-starter, because what we haven't tracked from five six is what was the dropout rate. We haven't tracked burnout, and so we don't have any record of all the good talent that we might have lost because we moved to five, yeah, and and people will say, yeah, look at you, bellingham, you know, start at five. Well, if you ask anybody in the country, all right, give me the um, give me the, the best talents, and in in each generation they will go.

Speaker 2:

Poor Scholes didn't go into an academy until he was like 13 or something. Paul Gascoigne was he in an academy at five? Or was he out on the park playing, playing, experimenting, designing his own thing? And so for me, there's now a gap for a study which starts to track some of this from an early age, and the hypothesis is that actually, yes, that'll be good from the EPPP, but we also need to be starting talking about some of the negative of this over-professionalization.

Speaker 1:

It sounds like your hypothesis is the England national team. We'll use England in this example, the England national team, and not the. Yeah, I'll put it in this way Our current England national team is not the best England national team that it could have been for their age, because the better players all burnt out.

Speaker 2:

That would be a hypothesis. I mean, I would just say that's probably one dimension. So the other things that I would add in there, which I would like in this study, is parental earnings. So I think clubs and their academies are still pretty poor at outreach to those of low socioeconomic groups and those who are probably open to multiple levels of deprivation. So they are meaning so what do you mean by that? So let's say, not only are they from low income households, but they're one parent households or they're low income and from a minoritized ethnic group. So where there's an intersection of two things that we know structurally means things are difficult and more difficult in society. Okay, and again, that maps them to all employment yeah, and so in from.

Speaker 1:

And then we, from a sporting context here, what you're saying, from a parental well, actually may put it a different way then is that that, uh, I'll use the rags to riches, but I'll use that, um, that as a, uh, as a, I think, aology. You know how likely is that? I mean, how likely is parental income as a? To what extent is parental income a predictor of becoming a, of making it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's. I haven't got a specific figure, but what we do know is that if you look back at educational level and the numbers who attended private education, that's becoming an indicator of getting to a professional level. Number two we also know that parents have got to have flexible jobs where they can get to training for five o'clock okay, because clubs go. Well, that's when we want it, not let's ask parents what would probably work best for them and can we design things which increases the chances of us getting kids to us? Okay, um, it's like, well, that's when we got the pictures. So so we?

Speaker 2:

We also therefore know that not necessarily income, but we know that flexibility is the case. Um, we also know that things like um, private coaching are are being used, whether they are predictors, but, but we know that there's a cost. And people will also say but yeah, but academies are kind of free in terms of you know, they put on stuff not early on, and we see an increase in things like shadow squads, um and um tournaments or or even private academies, which all increase the chances of this not being a pure meritocracy of the best will rise to the top, but those people who've got a structure around them which facilitates them getting to a particular place. So, for example, having two parents helps immensely, particularly if there's more than one kid, because how this works on a single parent. Now you might be lucky and you you. There are scenarios where clubs will help, but they have to be clubs who've got a lot of resource and might go oh okay, you can't make it tonight, we'll send a taxi for him, but most clubs won't do that.

Speaker 1:

So there is this, and look, I see it here in Australia, I see it coaching in the US. The cost I think about my eldest. We pay roughly 3,000 Aussie dollars a year for him to play in the academy right, and so 3,000 is 2,000 US right a year and he's 17. He's in his 13, 14, 15, 16. That's his fifth year. So you just think about what we've already had to spend just to keep him there at that level, never mind pre-under-13s, which was maybe one and a half, two grand, something along a little bit less.

Speaker 1:

But there is a cost to. Well, I won't even say compete, there's a cost, yeah, well, I won't even say compete, there's a there's. There's a. There's a cost. Yeah, to play now, that reduces when you come to less. Um, elite football for for his age, right, but there's still a cost and you have to be able to afford that. So, so I guess I'm interested. Slight change in this football has this element of subjectivity to it, right. So, um, perhaps not in your study itself, but what have you seen? Or have you seen any similar studies across sports or across other countries?

Speaker 2:

no, but I'm involved in some. So a phd student, um who is he actually came to sheffield where I live, but he's now moved back to canada and he's doing a study which is looking at the english premier league, ncaa basketball and the uh ch Canadian Hockey League. So we've got hockey, basketball and football. Now, as part of that, we've started to map ice hockey trajectories and looking at how does this play out, Because ice hockey is another good example in Canada of cost of parents putting a lot of money in for rink time to get kids enough time to practice or one-on-one with coaches so that they can potentially get picked up to potentially get to the NHL. And I mean the injury rate in ice hockey is way higher because of its brutality. But so these sorts of studies, I'm hoping will start to offer a foundation and I would love it if people start then building from this and going.

Speaker 2:

Actually, we need to start looking at this in the US or we need to start looking. I think the US is a really good example of a model where US or we need to start looking. I think the US is a really good example of a model where, going back to this, what does the club need. What do the players need? And realizing that this is a business situation and I would take you back with your child the reason that that money is there is because, fundamentally, this is a business transaction and we can get blinded by, oh but the love of football and football's good for them and it's great to get them into sport. We can talk about that, but people have then started to exploit that for income and football clubs do that.

Speaker 2:

Football clubs obviously I'm talking about England, but most places around the world football clubs fundamentally need to do two things they need to win football matches and they need to generate income so that they can survive. And fans don't care about anything else. I know about the league, but we really do look after our youth players. It's like, well, nobody's ever said that. They've said that to nobody ever. So there is a pressure and I've seen a couple of in england. I've seen a couple of academy managers.

Speaker 1:

their roles have changed to business development manager, academy business manager, which is giving an insight into what this is about so, given this, given this world that you described this well, I guess, truthful view, an evidence-backed view on where sport can take a child, but what also can happen, that trajectory, as you say, what's that advice to parents, to players, to navigate it?

Speaker 2:

So I go with the ease, so engage. I think my first advice if somebody jumps like, you can jump on my website and um sign up and just get online for free, no obligation, just have a bit of a chat well, tell us now people are going to be sitting down.

Speaker 1:

What's the website?

Speaker 2:

yeah, wwwchrisplattscouk, I do a blog a week. Uh, there'sa newsletter on there as well you can sign up for and, like I say you can, you can have a chat and just seek some advice, really, but, um, so it's engage with this. And then the second is early and they kind of go together. The earlier you can start to talk about these things, the better. It's not as horrible as you think, it's not. Oh, you're just going to sit, as hopefully we've shown here. You're just going to sit there and tell me that my dreams are like this fanciful thing and to give up on it. Never that. But the reactionary thing which you mentioned earlier on of oh, I'm now 23 and I've been earning £2,000 a week, been living on that money and now I can't see another contract coming. That is a much worse position to be in. Or I'm in on two grand a week and now they've turned around and said 20 grand a week and I went yes, and a year into that I'm like I've got all these hangers on, it's breaking my relationship apart and I'm struggling with my football because of all this stuff that's going on. Imagine those two scenarios, and one might be your dream. We don't want to be reactionary in those situations. We want to be engaging early in this and talking about it.

Speaker 2:

Then it's events and envision. So then look at the events that are likely to come. So one of the things if you sign up to work with me is I send you a book and it's a book which is of you know, there are a few in the market, but it might be sort of right. Here are 16 people who were in your position and case studies around them. Ryan Baldini's work is quite good on that. Or Jonathan Harding's book on soul, in your position, and case studies around them. Ryan Baldini's work's quite good on that. Or Jonathan Harding's book on soul, which is about how clubs can develop holistic people. Right, and we work through that. So now we're starting to get events and we're starting to think and envision how we're going to react from those things.

Speaker 2:

Then it's evaluate I don't know twice a year let's look at what, what things change. Well, actually I've got another contract, so now, okay. So now your financial planning, might that? Because there's a way in which you can thrive as a family, there's a way in which your kid can thrive and be present and enjoy this and not be stuck in a place of people going. You should be enjoying this because you're a professional footballer and you sat there thinking but I'm not, there's something wrong with me? No, there isn't. So if you engage with this early and envision these events plan, then we can get to a point where we can enjoy it and you can start looking back going. I'm glad I did this career and I have learned so much from it. I have learned things about me. That's where we want to get people.

Speaker 1:

I think I like the ease, yeah, I like the simplicity of it. Yeah, that's it right, it sticks. And you know the I guess the words that pop out to me are definitely that engagement and that envisioning, um and enjoyment and those um, you know, for me, as you know, as I'm reflecting and I'm I think about my career, I think about that for my, my, my children, but also some of the athletes that I'm working with now, and it's very much a case of you're providing a structure that enables them to get that, that enables anyone to engage early and work through things without destroying their dreams, but helps to match it probably and you use it there with that envisioning. We talk a lot about that. You know visualization and what you're talking about there is really preparing yourself by envisioning the events that are going to happen through a career and how to react, but be proactive in that preparation.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, to react and but be proactive in in that, uh, preparation, yeah, and in that, you know that's. That's no different to what we try and do with pretty much everybody in society. You know, we, we would talk about financial planning, wouldn't we? We would talk about these things. Now, the difference is these are, these are normal kids. Don't mean that in a disparaging way, and I learned this from the PhD. These are normal lads, normal kids. They're just in an extraordinary situation. So what we are doing with them here isn't anything different to what I will do with my kids. All right, with my kids.

Speaker 2:

If they're not in sport or elite sport, it might happen at 18 to 25, where we might talk about careers, financial planning. You know, yes, you might get made redundant from a job. So where, what else we are you going to do? What about geographical locations? It's just that with sport, because it is more of an early specialization area and careers occur earlier, we're making judgments at 16, 18, um, we have to have those conversations a little bit earlier. So it's not, we're not talking about this being some sort of rocket science situation, but we are talking now about this is data and interest.

Speaker 2:

Importantly for me, we do this outside of the club environment, so you can be brutally honest and never sit in a club thinking but what if I say this? Is everyone going to turn around and go when I ask that question in a group setting? Well, it doesn't matter, does it? Because I don't even ask what club you're at. If you just tell me what level your club's at, actually, I don't need any other information, that's fine. So it's outside the club.

Speaker 2:

And when you speak to parents, they want to know is my kid going to be all right at the other side of this? I don't want him to be a kid who comes out of this system and they're lost. I've not really got much. How do we know who to trust in this environment? These are all the worries that I hear every day, and this data and this coaching is a way that I really fundamentally see in shifting the power from those clubs and that uncertainty into hands of parents so that they can be right. We're more certain about this. We are. We're far more certain about what's going on, and we've actually been empowered to do this ourselves through this process.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I like that shift. I've said that a lot, I think, in this conversation. But there's a lot I like from our conversation. There's a lot that I take away and you know coming here, I suppose, towards the end of this conversation, but I hope there are many more to come but it's very much about you giving knowledge. You giving them that knowledge which is helping that balance of power really take shape and put it in the hands, a lot more than the player and the parent.

Speaker 2:

So maybe this is a good place to finish, but I'll finish with this story, and this is a good example. We know from the data that players who go out on a lone move stay in the game longer on average a couple of seasons. And the reason for that is if you get a professional deal at 18 and you go into an under 21 squad, if you stay in an under 21 squad, by the time you get to the end of that contract, you've no evidence to show the world that you can play in men's football. People will say things like can he play when there's a mortgage on the line? Ie, results really matter, because they don't in under-21s football.

Speaker 2:

Now, some clubs, being diplomatic, keep players in their under-21s as facilitator players, all right, so we've got two players that we think might make our first team and we kind of want to push them, but we can't play with two players, right, so we need a squad of 15. So we're going to give out these contracts. So here's a thousand pounds a week, right, okay? And you think, well, sorry, I must be good. And they keep you in the under 21s. And then at 21, they go sorry, we don't think you're good enough. And you look around saying, well, I've got a thousand pound a week at a championship club, right? So surely somebody in League Two is going to look at me and they go okay, ryan, where's your evidence that you play men's football? We're not taking a chance on you. Like, budgets are tight down here, all You're. Like budgets are tight down here, all right. So the next thing you're getting is £200 a week, offer seven leagues below. And you start going what? But I've played at this level? No, you haven't. You've played under 21s and you didn't do any financial planning. And £200 a week now is like I'm actually going to have to get another job alongside that, am I maybe?

Speaker 2:

Or we can say at 15, if you get in the under 21s and you're not training with the first team after your first season, we need to be talking about where you're going on low. And, by the way, we've talked about that because you know there's supposed to be five moves in the first five years. Don't become a facilitator player at that club. You're telling me that one of your. You know you wanted a purpose. You wanted a wage from this. Well, the way is to get a little bit outside your comfort zone. Go on loan to that place that is six leagues below, and play men's football. But we're going there with a positive attitude of you know that this is the way that you try and make your dream.

Speaker 2:

And I see time and time again and I hear it from clubs and I see clubs are great or so-and-so signed a pro deal with us and then I see them for the next three years and they sit in the under 21s. So that's just a story to show you the difference between somebody who would go really I've got two grand a week at a club. I must be good versus hang on. Chris told me about this. So now that two grand a week, what are we going to invest? What am I going to save? What am I going to spend from that? Because what if that's my highest earning point?

Speaker 2:

And, by the way, I know in a year's time I need to be in a place to be going on loan. So, parents, get on the phone, stop making a spreadsheet. Where do you want to go on loan? Who are the recruitment people Get? Where do you want to go on loan? Who are the recruitment people? Get in touch with them. Now We've got a year. That's the difference between looking at data and not and just letting the clubs have the power and do what they want with you and hope. You know, and hope is not a strategy, is it?

Speaker 1:

That's right. Hope is certainly not a strategy. Well, chris, I have have, like I said, I've enjoyed the conversation, taken a lot away from it. I think the story there, really it's home, is quite powerful. People are going to be listening, watching, thinking how do I get more of chris? Um, where's a good place to find you and to learn more and even get in touch?

Speaker 2:

yeah, so, uh, dr Dr Chris Platts on X, on LinkedIn, I put quite a bit on LinkedIn. I guess that's where I feel you know data and stuff are best. So LinkedIn, instagram as well, stuff on there. I'm only just dabbling in Instagram. So that's going to be the next growth area because I'm too old, right, but I'm going to give it a go.

Speaker 2:

Obviously, the website, chrisplattscouk. Have a look on there and sign up newsletters and blogs. I do a weekly blog. I've also started a YouTube channel as well, because I felt like just a four minute me just this is and I reflect on what I've had chats about this week. So, if you know, I've had a parent session or I've been to a conference and this topic's come up. I come away and just do a quick snapshot on that. So, yes, I have a look at that and yeah, that's, they're the areas.

Speaker 2:

One thing I have loved about this journey is meeting people and hearing their stories and, you know, just getting online with people and whether they end up working with me, whether they don't. It's about it's been really good to test my data with people and then it happens to us. Yeah, that, and I'm going. Okay, I know I knew this was going to be the case, and so, yeah, reach out. I love to hear people's stories from all around the world as well. You know, I've had a real response from people in Europe and in America who've wanted to chat over this stuff, so that's how you get in touch.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic and look, I think you know I'd definitely love to keep talking as well and bring some of your knowledge and, I guess, structure to what I see here in Australia and I think that's you's, you know, look, this platform is definitely for sharing and there's 160 or so people have been on this show. You know who. I really think as well, we can, you know, start to bring a lot more together with this community yeah, I've, obviously.

Speaker 2:

Since I know it's coming on, I started to listen back through and I think it's it's a great podcast. It's so well done to you, because I know it's hard work to keep things going and keep all the connections and recording and stuff. So I think I think it's fantastic and the debates that you've had with people and the guests that you've had on of of as I've listened, you know, driving about is when I listen to podcasts, and is is making me think and that's the best thing right about conversations where it triggers somebody to do something. Another thought, to think I must do that. And so, yeah, kudos to you for doing it, for for getting it going and to get to that many episodes as well. It's fantastic, so well done and thanks for having me on really appreciate it there you go.

Speaker 1:

Well, like you say, it's that final e enjoy, and I'm definitely enjoying this and enjoyed our time together today. Thanks a lot, chris my pleasure thank you for listening to the second win podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity, for your next step.

Speaker 3:

Make sure you check out secondwinio for more information or to book a consultation with me.

Speaker 1:

I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy Until next time.

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Ryan Gonsalves

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