Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

161: The Truth About Life After Sport That No One Tells You, with Stewart McCully

• Ryan Gonsalves • Episode 161

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Stewart McCully has spent his life around high performers, from elite athletes to engineers, from corporate execs to sheep shearers.

In this episode, he joins Ryan to talk about what it means to guide people through high-pressure environments and major transitions. A former SANFL footballer and teacher, Stewart now helps athletes and professionals develop the mental skills they often don’t get taught: managing overthinking, building self-awareness, recovering from mistakes, and finding clarity on what’s next.

He also shares what led him to start his own mentoring business, how sponsorships should be a two-way street, and what the shearing world has taught him about mindset, focus, and preparation.


What You’ll Learn:

  • Why overthinking is the most common barrier for elite performers
  • How mentoring athletes goes beyond sport and why trust is everything
  • What routines and reset tools help in sport, business, and life
  • How confidence and curiosity beat fear and perfectionism
  • The mindset behind a good sponsor relationship (for both sides)
  • Why shearers are some of the most focused performers Stewart has worked with
  • How self-talk and focus are the keys to confidence under pressure
  • Why "imagine if" is one of the most powerful questions you can ask yourself
  • The value of experimentation when figuring out life after sport

💎 GOLDEN NUGGET:
"They’re not coming to me because I played footy at Glenelg. They’re coming because I listen, and I help them see what they couldn’t before."


 Resources & Links: 


Connect with Ryan and Second Wind Academy:



Speaker 1:

When we introduced her to this apparel place, the guy in the shop said wow, I wish we had more of her coming in here. And I suppose from my point of view, it's about how do we educate some of these other young individuals about it's more than just getting free stuff. And I'll ask them so if they're giving you some free tops and bits and pieces, what are you giving back? And I've seen it a few times where they've like, I don't know, I'm just really good at what I do and so, but I deserve to get a free. One of those like, yeah, I said well, have a think about if you were the owner of that business and you're giving away stuff. Well, it's costing them money. What's the return on investment? And so for them to start to understand it's not just about being good at what you do or having a certain amount of followers For some of them it is but it's like have a think about what else that you can give.

Speaker 1:

And maybe that's time. So it's a really simple example for you to give up your time, to go back to that shop unprompted and go and get a relationship with those people so they actually understand what you're about and what else that you can potentially offer, and so whether you go and spend some more time in that shop and speaking to the customers and smiling and just being there, but actually giving some time uncompted and not asking for anything else, you don't know what might come from that.

Speaker 2:

Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people after all. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Stuart McCullough. Thanks for joining me and welcome to the Career Clarity podcast.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, ryan, certainly been looking forward to sharing what I've learned. That's, I suppose, the main part of what I do in my day-to-day role, which is literally sharing the right information with the right people at the right time. If I can delve into the teledex of all the information and examples and whatever, and then share it with people, so today's my chance to share that with you.

Speaker 2:

Brilliant and listen. I certainly appreciate you taking the time out. I know when we caught up the other week, I was really fascinated by your perspectives on working with athletes, working with corporates and also with I suppose I'll just call them high-performance individuals at this stage, but definitely something that I'd love to delve into a little bit as we catch up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's an interesting space. It started off for me essentially working with. I started a program literally 10 years ago which was to work with elite athletes from different sports. We ran a 10-week program to essentially bring those individuals together, share some information from some experts and then also do some one-on-one mentoring with those to sort of delve into what are the things that are really holding them back. And then I've been fortunate enough over the journey, ryan, to be introduced to some excellent, excellent people who have been not only athletes but then transferred into the corporate world, where individuals have been brave enough to let me start working with their staff so that I can again listen to what's going on and then share information, what I think is suitable for them at the time and let them go and put it into place.

Speaker 2:

What was your inspiration behind getting into this space, then? Why athletes?

Speaker 1:

It's a really good question. I came from a teaching background and I was at the same time when I was doing my teaching and my training, I was playing SANFL, so South Australian National Football League football, so sort of the next level down from AFL, and I suppose I was really fortunate enough, ryan, where I had a few people who took me under their wing and they were actually mentoring me. But I didn't actually realise that was happening. So I thought, oh, I was an 18-year-old kid from the country who this was all new to me, and one particular guy who actually really made the effort to ensure that I was doing all the things right, not just for my football, to ensure that I was doing all the things right, not just for my football, but also he helped me get a job at the uni where I was going to.

Speaker 1:

I was working at the gym, I was working at the swimming pool, so he kept that sort of routine for me. He was talking to me about diet, he was talking about recovery and he was also a former well, he was still playing football at the time but sort of transitioning in his life. So I look back and I realize that I had someone who was giving me that time. Whenever he wanted to, he did it because he wanted to, not just to be a good bloke. And then during that journey, when I was playing over those 10 or so years, I saw hundreds of young players come and go because they didn't have that support and knowing that if you haven't got the basis of all the things that need to be placed in order for you to perform well so having a good place to live, having some study or work, having other things to do apart from just training and trying to perform and put it all in one basket- that support structure, if anything around you to help you become that better player, or the best player, you can be

Speaker 1:

100%. I was in the teaching space for about 12 I think it was about 12 or 13 years and then I always had this feeling I wanted to be doing a role that I'm in control of, but I can use some experience of what I've learned and I thought, okay, if I could support some of these younger people moving forward and pass on some of the knowledge that I've learned, not just personally, but also from some extra studies that I did about elite athlete mentoring, I thought, let's do this, so I just went in feet first.

Speaker 2:

I get that story, so what I'm recognizing, and perhaps it's worth just talking a little bit about the level of sport that you were playing. I get that story, so what I'm recognizing, and perhaps it's worth just talking a little bit about the level of sport that you were playing. So for those certainly not in Australia who are watching and listening, you're talking about Australian rules football. So this is the sport that is often considered the most violent sport in the world. So we start there. No red cards cards, no one gets sent off. Uh, that that tells me enough. Um, play on. So, yeah, play on. Good hunch. Uh, keep going. Um, so you're playing. So you're playing this sport. You're that level below. You know full-time professional status, so you know you're an elite player. It's a big part of your life. What I'm taking from there is you're at that level over 100 appearances playing at that level.

Speaker 1:

So for you, you are already in this transition world where you needed to find a full-time or a role that could then support you, and that's where you found teaching yes, yeah, yes, and I suppose back then I was always going to be a teacher and sort of football was probably my number one focus and university and teaching and was sort of almost like the side gig. And it was interesting when I'd go out and teach some of these kids who were probably only a couple of years younger than me. They're like, yeah, but why are you a teacher, like you're a footy player. I was like, yeah, I still. Yes, I didn't get paid enough and I suppose I was one of those fortunate ones who had a career which was to the side. It wasn't my number one focus, but it was to the side. It was my number one focus but it was to the side. It was something I knew that I needed to to live. But also it gave me a really good stepping stone, ryan, in order to know that what this is probably not what I want to do full time, but it gave me enough exposure in enough situations for me to become really good at understanding.

Speaker 1:

And one of the schools I worked at was a behavior management school for eight years. So I learned a lot about how people tick and how you can get the most out of individuals. So that time, as full on as it was, was a great stepping stone for me to understand. Okay, now I get to choose who I work with and my chosen cohort of people are essentially elite athletes. Stepping stone for me to understand okay, now I get to choose who I work with and my chosen cohort of people are essentially elite athletes at different levels. And so how can I share whatever I can and guide and support those people? And that's why I love what I do. I get to sit and listen to these young people and say tell me how it is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, let's get into that piece. I mean I understand, I mean it's great, as a former athlete yourself, going into teaching. Pulling those two pieces essentially together is then helping to, I guess, give some level of education or go into that elite athlete cohort. How did you then go about establishing your business and sort of building out your own brand? And I'm keen to understand that. And then I really want to start talking about the types of individuals that you work with and help.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm knocked on a lot of doors, I leant on a lot of doors, I lent on a lot of my I suppose my network and talking to some people saying who I trusted to say what do you think about this? And I knew they'd give me honest feedback about am I wasting my time. So this is the model I wanted I'll be sitting down with individuals, I'll be asking the questions and I'm sharing knowledge with them, and part of that caused me to sort of build up and get some names under that, and I was fortunate enough to, I suppose in the first program I went to all the coaches that are on you or other networks and got people who are at the top level of their sports within South Australia. So in I think it was eight or nine different sports. They're all operating at the top level, so operating at the state or the national level. And then it was a few years into that, I was able to actually start working with one or two individuals who had been to their first Olympics and so, just through networks, I was able to establish the relationship with those individuals from a couple of different sports One was into cycling and one was in marathon and that introduced me to another cohort of you know different types of people, but I realized that you know they're.

Speaker 1:

They're not superhuman people, they're just individuals who haven't been really good at their sports. And when we're sitting one on one, I'm just talking to, I'm talking to people, and when I can make it really really simple as far as knowing that I'm here to learn from you and I'm here to support you, and vice versa. So if we're up for that, let's see where this can go.

Speaker 2:

What is it that you saw as a gap to help them? Because, I get it, you can speak to them. As a former athlete, you can understand that. What challenges did you think that you could help them to overcome?

Speaker 1:

I think the biggest call it a selling point, or the difference that what I provide and call it a selling point, or the difference that what I provide and I can only share this with those individuals, and especially with their parents, is that because I'm not their parent or their coach or their boss or their teacher, I'm none of those, I'm not involved in their sports, I'm not part of the inner sanctum and when, when I look those individuals in the eye and say to them, I'm actually here for you, so it sort of helps cut down those barriers that they are not afraid to when I've got the relationship, when they're not afraid to actually share really, actually what's going on, what's holding them back. That that's the gap, but that's also the point where, whether it's the parents or the individuals, go. I think you're the person I'm happy to trust to talk to about these things. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I can understand that, and I think for many athletes, in fact even executives, but many individuals that I work with, they often want to get that feel, that sense of separation, where this person that they're speaking to is in it just for them, of sorts, and doesn't have any ulterior motives about getting them set up on the on the field better or helping them actually, you know, do something that they don't want to do. You're simply there to listen and to help shape things themselves yes, correct.

Speaker 1:

and and look, I certainly had some resistance from some of the coaches, from some of those athletes. So some of the coaches, when they knew that they were talking to this guy, they're like you're, you're not working with my athletes and it's just like. It's like okay, and some of the athletes would actually say, um, am I allowed to work with you? I said you, you are you, they that they don't own you, that they might think they do, but it's your choice. If you feel like I'm the person that's that's there to support you and and you generally feel that and that's that. And that's the difference.

Speaker 1:

Where they can and we meet off-site, we don't meet with a I'll go and watch them compete or train to see how things roll, just to be there. I don't really care about the results, but I like to watch. You know what's their body language look like? Who do they knock around with? How do they prepare? Do they look nervous? Like? I'm just there and if they need to come over and have a little cry or a little frustrational chat, I'm just there, and sometimes it's just a matter of just being there and they're like, oh cool, stewie's here, hi, and might just help relax.

Speaker 2:

So can I mean help me, I guess, to, to paint that. I'll paint that picture for me. Uh, you know, thinking of, you know the types of athletes that you've worked with. How do you help them, what are the types of things that you help them work through, and what are the and and that's it. And then, why do you think they?

Speaker 1:

benefit from it? Why do they need it? What I've learned over this journey is that probably the main topics that people, when I talk to them about it, they'll start nodding their heads. So things like managing, overthinking, so managing, overthinking so when I talk about the word overthinking, they just start going yeah, that's me. So we go oh, what sort of things is that? And a perfect example for most especially younger athletes is making a mistake in their during their game. So let's say they're playing basketball and they make a bad pass, and then they are worried about that mistake. And so I'll delve into that and say well, so what happened? So I made a mistake and I'm worried that I've let the team down, or the coach is watching me, or my parents are going to say something, or it's all those comparisons worried about letting people down, et cetera. So we talk about okay, I need to now understand what are you saying to yourself? What's going on? Why are you worried about that? And so then, if it's a matter of for them to start thinking, all right.

Speaker 1:

So when I make a mistake, what's part of my routine to reset? What are the things that I could potentially learn in order to have some of this mental skills training? So I've got some tools for me to be able to reset. So, whether that's something you say to yourself, whether it's something physical they might say, tap themselves on the leg that might be a little reset. Or it might be something that they do when they you know, they might roll their sleeves up, or a cricketer might undo their gloves for a certain time to reset. So the more real examples that I can actually share with them and these are examples I've learned from other athletes that I've actually heard from. So I like to use those once-removed examples, because it's not me telling them, because I say I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I'm listening to you and I'm pretty certain that here's something I think would be really helpful for you. So here you go, try this, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I mean it sounds it makes sense to me. You know again similar field work with individuals in that how do the athletes approach it? For them is it often new? Is this you know? These are new skills, new tools. Are they you know? So them? Or are they all like, oh yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1:

I've done it before yeah, it's usually new, um, especially for the, the younger athletes.

Speaker 1:

So when I'm talking younger athletes, the majority of the, the teenagers that work with, are probably around that probably 16 17 year age age where they're getting to the point they're quite good at playing this sport and they're starting to go on, so they have to start to make some decisions.

Speaker 1:

And especially the parents will say well, the kid's not coping, or probably the parent's not coping, more to the point, and so can you work with my son and daughter? And then when I'm having those conversations and I'll sit down with the parent and the individuals, if they're of that age, to explain here's some examples of some of those things we can talk about. So, if it's about the way that you prepare, what your routine looks like, what do you do, how do you focus or refocus and some of them are sort of looking at me a bit blankly. So, all right, this is all really quite new to them and I just need to tread lightly but also go at a pace which is enough for them to to be able to start to put things in action yeah, but how do you think your experience as an athlete helps you to engage with athletes better?

Speaker 1:

yes, I was really concerned about that when I first started doing this, especially because I was working with athletes not in the sport that I played. How do I sell that that I worked with all different athletes from all different sports, but that was sort of holding me back. So I had to change my tact and sort of think all right, my role is an elite athlete mentor, which I did the study for. I've got some real experience. So what does that mean? That means that it doesn't matter what sport the individuals are working with. And now I've realized it doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be a sport, it can be an individual to drag out the right information to find out what are those things that are those sort of mental hurdles that are holding them back. And when they can understand, it's just like oh yeah, the main one is this one. Let's say it's overthinking or it's my positive.

Speaker 1:

Self-talk is just not there. It's all negative, although just that the needle just goes to the needle all the time. So I'll talk a lot about habits and then go. Well, so part of that is to we know that you've been doing this for a while, so we're not going to be able to flick the switch and it's going to change immediately. So if the habits are going to take, you know, say, four to six weeks to to sort of eventually change, I need some commitment for you to be able to put some things into practice and I'll, when I meet with you, I'll, write some little notes and some action items and they get sent to you and then the next time that we speak and it could be in a week's time or two weeks' time I've got a bit of a rule, by the way no more than a month in between sessions if we're doing breaks of sessions, because a lot can happen in a month.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, true, and if at any time, something's really gone down, don't wait for that two, three, four weeks to an appointment. Just say hey, Stuart, I've lost my mind. We need to get back on track. So it's really important for me to let them know that I'm available to them. Don't feel like it's a burden, because it might just be a two-minute chat, it might be a text message yeah, so being an athlete yourself isn't necessarily the precursor because, like you say, you're working across.

Speaker 2:

you know um, different codes, different types of sports, but ultimately, the, the skill that you bring, is much more about the, the questioning and helping them to frame solutions around. You know a very clear problem, yes, and for them to frame solutions around.

Speaker 1:

A very clear problem, yes, and for them to come up with the answers and I think I realized after probably two or three or four years, is that they're not coming to me because I was during the college who played football at Glenelg Football Club.

Speaker 1:

It's not about that at Glenelg Football Club. It's not about that. But I do have a bit of a clue about what it looks and feels like to come into a high-performance environment from a young kid from the country who had to learn these things. So I had to learn about what in preparation and routine and recovery and all those things look like. So I'll use that learned experience when it's appropriate, absolutely. But I certainly will not pretend to know that I know what it feels like to play NBA or basketball, because I don't, no, but I know what it feels like to have the pressure to perform and end of the day it's like how do we get you the best version of you, whether it's today or this week or leading up to a competition, so that together we can plan out a bit of a strategy of how you can get better at what you do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and so what's interesting, then, is in that same way, you're able to support people based on that questioning and drawing out or helping the individual find their solution. You don't only just work with athletes, so you can see how that relates into a corporate context. Talk to me a bit about applying what you do and the types of businesses that you work with.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you work with. Yeah, so I'll give an example of some some current situations where. So one of them is I'm working with, uh, an engineering company, and so there's a there's a mix of different engineers within that organization. Some are new graduates who have come into business, um, some are really experienced who are dealing with big projects, and so I have to understand each of the individuals that I'm doing those one-on-ones with, finding out what are the main things that are making day-to-day work a little bit more tricky than they normally would. So, whether that's time management, as an example, it could be dealing with the pressure. So some individuals who are super smart as working out calculations and things, need some support when it comes to getting themselves organized. So it could be about prioritizing. It could be the way that they are communicating with individuals. It might be how to have some conflict resolution chats with a colleague or a boss, and you know what.

Speaker 1:

There's been situations, ryan, where there's been individuals who have made it really clear to me that they're not happy here where they are. So I'll have that chat and say, hey, you're not a tree, you can move, you can go elsewhere if you really want to when they're like, but I don't know what to do. So that's where that person-to-person honest chat for people who feel like, oh, I can talk to you about that. And so I've worked with some individuals who and helped them transition to work elsewhere. And because I need to keep that level of confidentiality in all these relationships, there are certain things that I can't go and tell the boss that, hey, they're getting ready to leave, because my commitment as that mentor why they've engaged me to do that is to have the trust of this individual so that they will feel like I can help guide them. And then it gets to a point they go hey, they've just resigned.

Speaker 2:

I went, yep was on, I went, yep. There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues and, unfortunately, suicide, and so I think it's time to act. Every year, we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life after they leave sport. This might be a retirement injury or they need to juggle dual careers, between sport and a job. As a former English professional footballer, I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking, strategy, innovation and now life coach, career practitioner and founder of the Second Wind Academy. So I want to help those around me find their career second wind. To help those around me find their career second wind, find me on insta or through my new facebook group, second wind academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions. If you find yourself in situations where you you know both sides. You know both sides of that, that story, how you know what values are important to you there. How do you, how do you personally, navigate through something like that?

Speaker 1:

yes. So make it really clear to the, the, the management that, or the owners of the business that engage me, to let them know that my role is to support those individuals first and foremost. And if there's an agenda from from their point to help move them out of the business and we've already had that conversation then that sort of makes things a bit easier. But sometimes well, most of the time that doesn't happen. They know that they're a valued person within the business and they probably want to keep them because it's going to cost them a hell of a lot more if they're going to have to retrain some new people. But if I get the real truth from the individual and they're really not happy and they'll say, hey, I need to get out of here, and it's like, okay, well, let's, let's, let's work out what that looks and feels like, um, and then we know I need to keep that at arm's length to everyone else because and it's for them to like they're not kids, right? So some of them are in their 40s and 50s and 60s.

Speaker 2:

But it sounds like you're helping them have honest conversations with themselves and with those around them, and so you're sort of stoking that up. You're getting them moving, getting them thinking well, how do I feel and how should they perhaps even approach their boss and work through things in that way?

Speaker 1:

Correct. Yeah, and that's tricky for some of them and I'll help guide them, even setting up what those conversations might look like, but then it's over to you. So it's like I'm not going to tell you how to do it, I'm not going to wipe your bum for you, I'm not going to do those. But part of that is to push you out of your comfort zone but help you to grow. And once they have the courage, and part of that comes back to maybe something we've spoken about earlier with that individual, about confidence. So you go remember how you feel you've come over the last you know, maybe two or three months with your confidence. So part of this is for me to help you, help yourself, by giving you a little bit of a nudge, knowing that it's going to be okay, but you need to do the grunt work, yeah, and you're giving them the toolkit.

Speaker 2:

You're giving them the skills mental skills, perhaps confidence skills to act right, To shape where they want to go Correct.

Speaker 1:

That's 100% it and it's providing the right mental skills for that person at that time. And then, on the back of that, we see something like, let's say, confidence all of a sudden starts to go up. Yeah, and I will follow up the majority of those people who move on from businesses and go elsewhere. I feel there's an obligation not to just go just because I'm not working with them. I will, you know, if I've got the relationship with them like I like those people. So I've done it multiple times where I'll just say, hey, I'm giving my ring, how are you going, how's the new job going, what are you doing? And they go oh yeah, thanks for checking in. Yep, it's going okay.

Speaker 1:

And then because the mentoring relationship something I learned when I did my training one was that they made it really clear that the mentoring relationship has a lifespan. So it could be for a 10-week program, it could be for a six-month stint. There are athletes that I started with 10 years ago who I'm still in contact with. Okay, yeah, why? Because it still works. Both parties are still getting something out of their relationship. So I make it really clear at the start of the mentoring relationship that there is a lifespan and if there's a time that you don't feel like you're getting out of our catch-ups, there's something out of that and I'll say it as well. I'll say to them, or potentially their boss or their parents, and say this is not working and I feel like it's forced.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting thinking about those athletes you talk about working with them 10 years ago, still in touch. It gets me thinking about that life after sport aspect and the things that they do to set them up for that life after sports. You, um, you know what are, you know? How do you see them think about some of your clients that you've worked with? What sorts of things have they gone into or how have they been able to use that athletic performance mindset to support them in this life after sport?

Speaker 1:

yeah, there's one. That one that comes to mind was um was actually one of the first athletes I engaged with, um, a young lady who's triathlete who was basically training on her own. She was living in the Adelaide Hills and was traveling to go and get to like a swimming pool, traveling to go and work at a certain place and train with other people, and spent a lot of time traveling to do things. I'm traveling to do things and also her performances training-wise were a little bit hindered because of the weather we have in Adelaide, especially winter, not so good. So actually I said to her where's the best place for you to be training? And I was asking about coaches, and she goes probably Queensland. So she organized to be able to go up to Queensland and she spent a week with a coach and a squad and came back just beaming, just saying how good was that. And I remember saying to her so when are you going? And she's like what do you mean? I said, well, you don't really have a lot of things holding you back here. When are you going to move there?

Speaker 1:

Anyway, she moved there like I don't know how many years ago, probably seven years ago, six or seven years ago and, yep, she married a triathlete coach and pro triathlete and but what was happening on the side was that, um, with my business, I needed some help with social media and she was awesome at doing photography.

Speaker 1:

So I said do you reckon you could help me with my social media? So she started basically running my social media, which was really around Instagram, facebook photos and little stories, and then she was very good at that and it got to a point which I think she didn't want to do it anymore and I could tell that. So I had to sort of take the reins back and at the similar time she she actually moved to Queensland. She continued to do that for me remotely for a little while and then I took that off her. Interestingly, now that she's working in a space that's still in sport, but she's doing all that sort of marketing side of things, and so she kept within the sport. I suppose I gave her a little bit of a go to trial. It Gave her the opportunity to explore it.

Speaker 1:

yeah, you could do this, and part of that was confidence and she'll be deferred to admit that that the confidence for her to be able to go, and you know, move to a different state or take over the social media or, you know, being brave to chase the things you want to do well, yeah, and I suppose, as I, as I think of both of those uh experiences for her, one going to queensland was you gave her it was an experiment.

Speaker 2:

She went up for a period, had a training block, came back home, realized it was something she liked. In the same way, recognizing a skill or a certain interest in photography, you gave her the opportunity to try that with you and so she tried it, gave it a shot and now has continued to expand on that as well. So both demonstrate this well, the power of experimentation. See if you like it and then take that next leap forward.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it certainly took some conjoling, it took some support, it took some chats with her to sort of say it'll be okay and what's the worst thing that could happen? If you go to Queensland and it doesn't work out? You can always come back, all right. Yeah, but it felt natural from my point of view and I suppose the beauty and the things that I get to do with those individuals, ryan, is to look at the I used to call it the helicopter view, but now I call it the drone view From above.

Speaker 1:

I'm looking at things a little bit differently than how they see. That and I suppose that's very similar to all the individuals, whether it's in the corporate world, teenage world or the athlete world is that I will look at it from a different lens. My goal is for them to start to look at things from a different lens as well, by getting them to start thinking differently about the situation and what can I do about this, what can I control in this situation and what needs to change. And if they're not sure what that is to change, I certainly won't be telling them the answer, because I don't really know what all those answers are, but it's prompting that thinking, for them to think, yeah, imagine if I could and I like to use that question also imagine if, Imagine if I could and I like to use that question also Imagine if yes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there was an interesting part you mentioned, you know, with that context and giving them the drone-like view. You know we were talking earlier about athletes and you know we're talking here about athletes who need to find other ways to fund their lifestyle, to support them with coaching, to support their you know, just day-to-day living as well, and you know we were chatting about sponsorships and we were talking about bringing a different perspective to what that could look like for an athlete. Talk me through that again, because I just thought it was really interesting.

Speaker 1:

And I've had a few examples recently where I got some opportunities with some clothing businesses and a few other organizations who are keen to support some individuals. And I find it quite fascinating with the mindset of some of these younger individuals who they're all about getting free stuff. All right. So for them it's, and it's easy for them, for the, for the, the, let's say, the clothing business the most simple way for them to give sponsorship is to give free gear because it's probably cheaper for them. And I found it quite noticeable that we had some athletes from one particular sport went in there and they were like, yep, give me the free stuff. And then they went giving it.

Speaker 1:

And then we had another athlete, one I've been working with probably since she was 15 and now she's 22. Um, she's been well traveled, she, she's been an individual sport, so she's been well travelled, she's in an individual sport, so she's had to work really hard and she gets it. She gets being nice to people, she gets following up, she gets being prepared, she gets doing a little bit of extra unprompted in order to say thank you about things. And so when we introduced her to this particular clothing apparel place, the guy in the shop said wow, I wish we had more of her coming in here.

Speaker 1:

And how do we and I suppose from my point of view it's about how do we educate some of these other young individuals about it's more than just getting free stuff? And I'll ask them so, if they're giving you some free tops and bits and pieces, what are you giving back? And I've seen it a few times where they've been like I don't know, I'm just really good at what I do, but I deserve to get a free one of those. It's like, right, do you?

Speaker 2:

Which I think is just what so many, I think, athletes, certainly aspiring athletes walk in with is well, I'm going to wear it and I'm going to run or swim or whatever. And isn't that enough?

Speaker 1:

yeah, I said well, have a think about if you were the owner of that business and you're giving away stuff. Well, it's costing their money. What's the return on investment? And so for them to start to understand it's not just about being good at what you do or having a certain amount of followers For some of them it is but it's like have a think about what else that you can give, and maybe that's time so it's a really simple example for you to give up your time, to go back to that shop unprompted and go and get a relationship with those people so they actually understand what you're about and what else that you can potentially offer. And so whether you go and spend some more time in that shop and speaking to the customers and smiling and just being there, but actually getting some time unprompted and not asking for anything else, you don't know what might come from that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's right, and I think that's one of those elements again where investing your time, so bringing some of the things that you can do almost for free right just as a way of saying thank you, giving back, and I think for many they actually then find out. Actually, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed coming back and speaking in the shop or having a chat with customers and, like you say, you just don't know where that leads. So it's very much a case of, when it's sponsorship, really thinking about what value you can bring to um, to that corporate or that, that brand, and it's not just this one way, one way street yeah, absolutely so, it's.

Speaker 1:

I'm actually really keen to work with the, the apparel store too, and say what, what do you want to get out of this? Because for some of them it's a bit new too, because you know it's it's easy for them to meet these young people, or whatever. But I think it's been important for them to start thinking about, before they even engage in allowing those young people to come in, have a set of guidelines or some rules, some boundaries as to what's expected from those individuals, and if they're not up for that, then this is not even going to get off the ground. We're not even going to get a free sock.

Speaker 2:

I think you know, when you know me with a bit of a marketing background, I know one of the key things is always what that brief looks like. What's that sponsorship brief? And here we're talking about athletes approaching this by saying, yeah, there must be something that they want. There must be time, behaviors, activities so that they can get to a they've got this well, quite simply, a branding or funding opportunity that that helps them really be their best at their sport yeah, 100%, so that I think it's a.

Speaker 1:

really gone are the days of even having um sponsorship, where there's branding on on tops and things like it's changing a lot. Some certainly need that if they want to get some exposure, but I think from a business point of view and also an athlete point of view, the way that sponsorship is working these days is changing a lot and people need to be flexible in that space to learn how can we get better at supporting those that are supporting us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's right Now. I know we talk about that toolkit and the toolkit, these mental skills, the corporates, the elite athletes who are coming through, but I know you also mentioned about other elite where these sorts of toolkits and this sort of mindset is really important. And I think I left our conversation thinking I never thought about farming, I never thought about the farming industry needing that sort of special mental toolkit. So to remind me again, the shearers we're talking about sheep.

Speaker 2:

Shearers, we're all about sheep, shearers, and I was just like, and I'm walking, I was there and I was thinking. I've never thought about that before, but you know, just to share that little bit, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I come from the country and a friend of mine, he knew that I was working with athletes and he rang me up about I don't know, probably five or six years ago, and said, hey, Stewie, do you reckon you could work with shearers? And I said, sure, why not? I said what are?

Speaker 1:

the sort of things that you are thinking about, he goes. Well, we've got these because in the shearing world, you know, we've got people day to day who arearing sheep and there's no simple way to shear a sheep than the human. You can't put it in a machine are pretty full on and you've got to shear those sheep. You know between 100, 200, some of them can do 300 sheep in a day, some more. And I went I reckon this would be fascinating because it's the same thing thinking about how do I mentally prepare for this? Because there's a lot of competition, even though there's not so on a day-to-day on a farm. If there's shearing happening, there might be five or six shearers all standing next to each other on the stands and they know the tally of the other people, so they know that he's a bit quicker than me. I've got to catch up and so there's a little bit of pressure and a bit of competition, which is okay. So then we started to.

Speaker 1:

I started to sit with these shearers and asking you know what are the things that? You know? Some of them get nervous. There are certainly shows, so there's shows and competitions. So we've been working with some of those and for some of them they're worried about what that looks like, because they actually have to shear in front of other people because there's actually a crowd there. So that's a whole different element, no different to any other athletes. So we look at what are those things that you are doing to get yourself ready to be a good shearer. And typically let's go back, probably a few years the days of shearer finishing shearing their you know, two or three hundred sheep. They finish the day and I'll have a beer and get into the beers and write themselves off and then go again.

Speaker 1:

Today's young shearers are becoming a lot smarter at knowing that they can make really good dollars. They get paid by the sheep, so they can only work a certain amount of hours, so they get paid approximately $5 per sheep. So, if you think about it, some of them are doing $200 a day. It's not bad dollars, but how do they prepare themselves physically? So, thinking about what they're doing, so a lot of them are getting now into the right nutrition, hydration and recovery, but what are they doing mentally? So a lot of them haven't even delved into that space of how do I focus and one of those things that focuses understanding that you need to get things correct when you are under pressure, so that you're not worried about the results. Same with normal game. So trust the process.

Speaker 1:

And so recently been working with a few guys. I've been in some um, some serious competitions, um, so some, you know, state and national championships and for them, worrying that, no, they're up against people who are better than them. Some of them are world champions, and so what we did with one particular guy was working out. You need to be able to focus, but let's not worry about focusing on shearing 200 sheep or doing those 10 sheep. Let's focus on each section of the sheep that you need to do. So there might be they do the belly and they do the neck and they do the head, so that you might take two or three or five or maybe 10 seconds max of each of those sections.

Speaker 1:

So we would do some mental skills training about focusing literally for, let's say, for five seconds, so not just on the sheet. I would ask them to do things when they're going for a walk. They might look in the distance and see a tree, and then you've got to. For the next 10 seconds, you've only just got to be able to focus on the tree and not be distracted by anything else. So, practicing these skills of not being distracted and knowing I've got a job to do, I know how to move the handpiece and I just need to do that section, four or five seconds done, then the next one done. Next one, yep, done. Next thing, the sheep's done, then we start again for the next one.

Speaker 1:

And so if there was ever hurdles that people are worried about, what those things are, we would go into sort of the next step of looking at being aware that you're thinking about some negative things. How do you catch that thought and what do you do with that thought? All right, what do you do with that thought? Do you hold on to that and then be worried? Oh, he's gonna beat me. Well, just all those things, all the what ifs, okay, all the what ifs. And if we, if we, worry about the what ifs, then it's, you know, we worry about the things that we can't control.

Speaker 2:

We can't control, um, but then I love that story, um, and certainly went to more detail this time, which is great, because the way, the way, what you've described is, we're taking I'll say, a routine, a routine that very few people could actually relate to at its broadest context, right, or its most specific context.

Speaker 2:

Most people are like I have no idea what you're talking about. But the way that you've applied those skills, the way that you broke down what they had to do into those specific tasks, helping them to focus on those tasks as individual parts, but individual parts of a whole, I think just makes it really interesting, really demonstrates the fact that the, the toolkits, the mental skills that you're talking about, really can be applied across well, from shearing sheep to athletic performance, elite performance to um, to a very corporate or work context, I think you know really just shows well actually why why I, why I'm on, you know why I do this podcast, because I think that finding clarity and focus, the skills that we learn, can be applied across so many different parts of our life, and so thanks for sharing these stories.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, thank you and look part of that is I need to learn a bit about how to shear a sheep too, so I've had to learn how to do that um and and go and see what happens. Like I need to use the language, and this is. This is no different to all the other athletes in the different. I think I've worked with about 30 different sports um over the journey and I don't need to be an expert on those, but I certainly need to know the right language and terminology when I'm talking, you know, with a shearer about holding the handpiece and what the flow looks like, and so that they know that I've. I actually care about what we're talking about and I've done some research and I've actually done it as well, and I've got the hands dirty.

Speaker 2:

Can you do 300 in a day?

Speaker 1:

No, that's not for me.

Speaker 2:

No, no, when you look at the toolkit, I suppose I want to say what's your go-to um, um, skill or tool that you would apply? You know a lot of people following the show really come along from a how to help find clarity and and that focus. What guidance would you give to them?

Speaker 1:

I think that at any given moment, we're always we're always thinking about lots of things that could happen, did happen, might happen. So all the what if, the what if factor. In fact, I've got a book called the what If Trap. It's on Amazon how to Manage Overthinking, and because it was the main topic that actually kept coming up. So in that we've got a heap of strategies about what are the things that I can control, and so, in any given moment, we all have to make lots of decisions every day.

Speaker 1:

And is this decision I'm making right now going to help me or hinder me? What's the self-talk look like and what does it sound like? So am I saying to myself, oh, I can't do this? Or am I saying to myself, have a crack, let's have a go at this? How do we be curious versus being fearing things? How do we lean into things? So, for an individual to think about, what am I actually saying to myself? Is this positive or negative? And can I have an influence on how I feel? And whatever I'm saying and listening to the language that I'm using, whether it's internal or saying to other people, this is actually helping me. This is actually helping me.

Speaker 1:

I know an example, yesterday talking with an Australian high jumper about because she has an injury. Everyone's asking her about the injury and it's annoying her and it's bringing the confidence down. So we're talking about how do we shut down those conversations or how do we guide those conversations around the injury to something that I'm working really hard, I'm feeling well, all good, as opposed to oh, another question about my injury. It's never going to get better. So my main advice would be not to worry about the things that we can't control. But how do we get good at that? We get good at focusing on what are the little things that we can do day by day or moment by moment, thinking is this something I need to be doing, or can I wait and then back ourselves with? And then this is where the self-talk is so powerful. If you do it often enough and if the other people around you are helping you to to be good at that, to say you know what I need from you. We're talking about the good stuff, that's all yeah, thank you, stewie.

Speaker 2:

I think that is great. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to just bring your perspective and those who are listening and watching. What's the best way for them to get in touch with you or follow your journey?

Speaker 1:

yeah, there's probably a couple of ways. Um, a lot of people contact me through the website, which is nextleveleleaguecomau. It gives a real good rundown of the different groups of people that we work with and you can book a Stewie chat. You can just press on there or send me a little message to say let's. And this is what I like to do.

Speaker 1:

I like to have these conversations with people and, first and foremost, it's about how people, if they feel that I'm the person they feel, can support them and they connect with Instagram. We've got next level elite mentoring. That probably tells the most story. People can see the type of people we work with and I like to share information. Basically, it's a good way to give a pictorial of what's going on, but also I'll share some quotes. I like to share what other people have given to me as well and pass it forward given to me as well and pass it forward. And then the what If Trap book, which is on Amazon what If Trap how to Manage Overthinking and there's another book on its way. We're going to be doing a series, so I can't divulge the name of that book, but it's very close, but it's around confidence.

Speaker 2:

Sounds great. Well, that is exciting. You're leaving us there with a bit of a cliffhanger, but the good thing is also a reason for us to keep chatting after this show as well, so I can have a check out of the book too. So look, stewie. Thanks very much once again for taking the time out today. I've enjoyed the conversation, and I'm sure those watching and listening have done too. Thank you, ryan, been awesome. Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy Until next time.

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Ryan Gonsalves

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