175: Simon Cox: A Striker’s Full Circle: Football Lessons Fueling A Fitness Business

Simon Cox dreamed of playing for Reading FC. That was the goal. And while he wore the badge early in his career, it took almost 10 years and hundreds of games across leagues and countries before he finally earned his first start.

In this episode, Simon opens up about the full-circle journey from youth academy to international football, the grind of lower leagues, and the reality check that comes with retirement during a global pandemic. He takes us inside his unexpected pivot from coaching dreams to launching a gym business, learning how to lead, fail, adapt, and lead again.

What happens when you go from fighting for three points to fighting to keep the lights on in your gym? Simon walks us through that identity shift, the hard lessons in entrepreneurship, and why he stayed in fitness even after closing his first business.

This one is for anyone who's had to start over, anyone trying to figure out what comes next, and anyone learning how to lead a team in sport or business.

 What You’ll Hear: 

- Why Simon’s dream of starting for Reading took almost a decade to fulfill

- His honest reflection on dropping down a league and what it taught him

- The reality of retirement during COVID and navigating life after football

- How he transitioned from pro athlete to gym owner with no business experience

- The steep learning curve of running a franchise and why he eventually pivoted

- How he built loyalty with clients and why that stopped him from walking away

- The pressure of making decisions that impact other people’s livelihoods

- What Roy Hodgson taught him about structure and leadership

- Why relationships, culture, and trust still shape the way he leads today

- His advice to athletes about why retirement planning starts at 18

Golden Nugget

“Retirement starts at 18. No young footballer wants to hear that, but that’s when the plan begins. You’ve got to keep learning, keep making connections, and stay in touch with the people you meet along the way. One message at Christmas could open a door later.”

Looking for career clarity for your next step?
Visit www.secondwind.io to learn more or book a consultation. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Full Circle At Reading
• 1:00 Show Welcome And Simon’s Intro
• 2:20 From Pro Football To Gym Owner
• 5:40 COVID Curveball And Business Pivot
• 9:40 Learning To Run A Business By Failing
• 13:40 Decisions, Tradeoffs, And Membership Realities
• 16:20 Growing Up In Football And Early Breakthroughs
• 21:20 Loans, Standards, And Proving Himself
• 25:40 Goal Glut At Swindon And Transfer Choices
• 31:00 Managers, Fit, And Career-Defining Decisions
• 36:40 Culture, Structure, And Roy Hodgson’s Influence
• 41:20 Man Management In Sport And Business

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

So I was born in Reading. I wanted to make it at Reading Football Club. That was my sort of goal and dream. It happened to an extent in the first time I was at Reading. It's because I full circled it and came back. So I made I think five to six, I think it was five or seven appearances for the first team, but all as sub-appearances, I never was able to make it into the first team. Like Reading got promoted to the Premier League, they had 106 points. So I had to go and forge a career for myself. So I was half completed it at the start, but had to go and forge a career for myself. So I had to drop down a level, you know, try and do as well as possible, go on a career path, and then hopefully one day I was going to come back. And then that did end up happening. And then the first time I started a game for Reading was when I did the full circle. So it was really strange. It took me nearly, I don't know, nearly 10 years to make my first start for Reading after becoming a pro. Yeah, I had to do a full, full loop.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00

Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast. A show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people afterwards. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Simon, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I haven't I haven't heard too easy in a long time.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42

There we go. Well, you be having plenty of I think Yorkshire and English, Yorkshire and Australian stuff mixed up in this conversation. Brilliant. Yeah. Well look, Simon, as I was saying, welcome to the show. Good to have you joining me today. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Oh good. Uh looking forward to chatting a bit more about your career, but then also certainly how you've tackled the life after the game as well. Always fascinating to get different perspectives and definitely looking forward to yours. Yeah, absolutely. Looking forward to it. Everyone who's listening and watching today, please just give us a summary, uh super quick summary of sort of who you are and what you're up to nowadays.

SPEAKER_01: 2:20

So, and obviously former professional footballer, 17 years, over 500 games across all levels of the game, all the way up to international football, and finished my time over in Australia, where you are, with uh Western Sydney Wanderers. Retired through COVID, set up a gym business, and that's what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_00: 2:41

Nice. How's gym business going? How's that going in England?

SPEAKER_01: 2:45

Stress. Stress? Yes, yeah. Do you know what? I started off when I finished, I opened up an F-45. So obviously Australian born, Australian F-45. And then we just closed that and then reopened up our new our own one.

SPEAKER_00: 2:59

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 3:00

We've gone through a transition of that into a new one.

SPEAKER_00: 3:03

Right, okay. So we've got a couple of jumps that we'll have to go through. What made you go into the gym industry?

SPEAKER_01: 3:10

Well, I wanted to go into football coaching. So that was the plan after football, I did all my badges. Then through COVID, obviously no one was allowing anybody to come in and watch training, take sessions because of all all the bubbles that everyone was in. So I kind of sat out of doing anything for about 18 months and then realized that very quickly you're gonna have to start earning some money, like everybody. And then I did F-45 while I was in Australia a few times and loved it, loved the coaching style, loved the training, how it really sort of got everybody together. I'm big on that. You know, that would have been my football coaching style, bringing everybody together. So when I did a few F-45 sessions, and obviously I was new, I didn't know anybody, and I was integrated quite nicely, met some new people, etc. So I thought, where's can I open one up where I am here in South End? The closest one that we have is about an hour and a half away. So I thought to myself, oh actually, it's a really good opportunity for us to with a big catchment area of people. And for about a year, 15 months or so, it went it was going really well. And then all of a sudden we just started hitting a big dive. You know, people started getting back into the office, so all of a sudden it people stop coming to sessions, which inevitably means that they start cancelling memberships, and then we have to pivot and do something else.

SPEAKER_00: 4:37

Which in itself, I know how it feels from both being someone who was at the gym, then stopped going to the gym, training by myself now doing anything I can outside, basically. But the impact having worked with individuals in that fitness industry has been, like you say, it's been it's quite immense, and sort of having to, like you say, pivot business model and you know, become something yet you have to adapt to. And how have you found that adaptation then? Does it felt completely new?

SPEAKER_01: 5:03

When I was at school, I didn't know anything other than football, didn't really want to do school. I knew in my own self that football was gonna be the only thing I wanted to do. So when I was playing, you know, I think every footballer probably thinks you're gonna last forever. But then as soon as you get to sort of like 28, 29, 30 and you start realizing it's not gonna last forever, you start having to think about next steps. So I did all my badges, but then when that didn't happen, while I was in Australia, actually, I did a master's in business and football management. So that was I kind of took that a step to try and think, think to myself, okay, if coaching's not gonna be the thing, then something else behind the scenes might be within football, you know, director of football, um, you know, anything that brings players to the football club and gives them a big opportunity to be successful, academy manager, etc. Right? That kind of thing. When that didn't happen, I was like, right, I need to now understand how to run a business because I've never run a business before. So I had to learn all about profit and loss. I had to learn about dealing with marketing campaigns, advertising campaigns, leading the team, you know, whether it's cleaners, whether it's head trainer, whether it's, you know, bottom lines that are honestly like all the things that I've never ever thought I'd have to learn, I had to learn in an instant.

SPEAKER_00: 6:25

How did you learn them then? Did you go on a course? By failing. By failing.

SPEAKER_01: 6:29

Yeah, like I think it was the most expensive way to learn. It's allowed me to like from that first from their 45 franchise into this, it's allowed me to understand not to sort of like hold off on making decisions, make decisions what's best for the business, because ultimately the business is the one thing that's going to help people be successful. You know, it's not going to be, you know, if we put 20 sessions on a day, for example, but only one person comes in, we might as well put one session on. You know, so it's understanding all of those sort of fine details of what's best for the business compared to what's best for everything else.

SPEAKER_00: 7:06

You know, it's funny you say it. I mean, hearing it, and I'm sure you say it and it's obvious, right? Yeah. It doesn't feel like that when you're in the moment. It doesn't feel like that.

SPEAKER_01: 7:16

And no, and you're always scared about making decisions, especially in like, you know, in the gym industry or any subscription-based industry, if you make a decision that affects people's ability to be able to come or use your facility, for example, what's the next thing that's going to happen? They're going to leave. So you're kind of weighing up every option so that you try not to lose anybody, but you try and give them the exact same experience that they were having, but just maybe, like I said, no point putting 20 on when one will do.

SPEAKER_00: 7:47

Yeah, because it's a different prioritization, perhaps, that comes in. Because as a footballer, as an elite athlete, you made a million decisions a game. You made so many decisions, but I suppose I'm thinking the decisions you made were probably already with what's best for the team that you were playing on, at the detriment of anybody else who was thinking. And is it then when you're starting to run a business, suddenly you've got customers to think of, you've got employees to think of, you've got other investors maybe to think of, and all these other all these other people. Whereas as a player it's like, where's the ball? How are we getting into the back of the net? And we're all on that same team.

SPEAKER_01: 8:22

Yeah, as much as football as a team sport is quite individualised. So, you know, whether you decide to run forward or run back, that's an individual decision in business. You make one decision that impacts a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00: 8:34

Well, I guess, yeah, like you're saying, football as a player, yeah, it's an individual decision, but it is part of a connected team because it if we're all defending and you suddenly run up the field, it's like, mate, what are you doing? So you're going against the team. So I guess there's a bit that still keeps us together. Where does that disappear then when we enter into the world of business?

SPEAKER_01: 8:53

I would say it does, only on the basis of like one decision in business can make it can have so much repercussions, at least in because if you're the owner of that business especial, the decision that I make as a owner of a business, like I say, will could have detrimental effects to loads of people. Whereas I think in football, if I make one decision to run further forward, I've got 10 other people that can kind of help me and kind of sort that bad decision out. Whereas if in business I make a bad decision and we lose 20 members, that's a bad decision on my point. I've got to then try and find 20 members to replace them.

SPEAKER_00: 9:30

I'm keen to step into a little bit more about what you're doing and sort of some of those decisions that you've had to make. But let's just get a bit of that backstory. Like you say, a tremendous career, 17 years, you know, over 500 appearances, like you say, at all levels. I think you were saying this right at the start as well, which I think is great. You touched on it earlier. You said you always felt that you were going to be a footballer. So, as you were growing up, how important was sport to you?

SPEAKER_01: 9:54

Yeah, huge. I mean, I've got an older brother, so for me and him, it was always playing football in the background at back garden, obviously playing with football with his mates. So it kind of, you know, you always hear these stories of you've got an older brother and it toughens you up a little bit, right? And I felt like I had a little bit of that as well. So I always played in my Sunday league team, I would have played up at a level, so that always again toughened me up a bit. And then I think I just got I feel like I got a bit lucky at the start. The Sunday league team that I was playing with had Reading's under 19 managers, twin sons, and then we got asked to go and uh do a training session at the Reading Centre of Excellence at the time. I was nine, ten, yeah, and then basically never left until I was like 20. Yeah. So, you know, I I was there all the way through from centre of excellence into academy level apprenticeships into the first team. I've only got manager to go, and I complete the set.

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

It's not too late. It's definitely not too late.

SPEAKER_01: 10:54

No, I just sat there manager as well.

SPEAKER_00: 10:57

So coming through that whole system, and we talk about Actually, it's funny. We me being in Australia, I look at academies and teams here, and I don't know, for me, and it's probably just me being an old man, but it's as if that they switch clubs every year, every two years, and they just keep going through. Now you didn't have that experience, certainly in the early years, where you know, and that loyalty. My question is, is it a loyalty that you felt you had, or is it more following or doing what's in front of you?

SPEAKER_01: 11:24

Because I was a local lad, so I was born in Reading, I wanted to make it at Reading Football Club. That was my sort of goal and dream. It happened to an extent in the first time I was at Reading, it's because I full circled it and came back. So I made I think five to six, I think it was five or seven appearances for the first team, but all as sub-appearances, and never was able to make it into the first team. Like Reading got promoted to the Premier League, they had 106 points, so I had to go and forge a career for myself. So I was half completed it at the start, but had to go and forge a career for myself. So I had to drop down a level, you know, try and do as well as possible, go on a career path, and then hopefully one day I was gonna come back. And then that did end up happening. And then the first time I started a game for Reading was when I did the full circle. So it was really strange. It took me nearly, I don't know, nearly 10 years to make my first start for Reading after becoming a pro.

SPEAKER_00: 12:18

Yeah, I had to do a full, full loop. Do you know it's interesting? Dr. Chris Platz, who was on a month or so ago, and um he does talk about you know the the likes of yourself, and as I was sort of talking about you and you know, about you coming onto the show, and I was looking back at your career, and you've kind of followed what he prescribes as one of the paths or one of the bits, is that as you hit that sort of 20 years old, you need to play with men, you need to get in the first eleven. And if that means leaving and dropping down a division, earning your stripes, playing your trade, then that's what you did. And you know, you've gone ahead and you've done that. How did that feel? If you can look back or think back at the time, sort of leaving and starting again to try and sort of forge your own name.

SPEAKER_01: 13:03

I remember it really clearly is there were two things that really stuck out to me. So, first of all, I went out on a loan. I went to Brentford on a loan, I went to Northampton on a loan, scored my first goal at Northampton because I hadn't scored at Brentford. I was kind of questioning, am I good enough to score goals at the levels? And then I went to Swindon the following year and scored like 17 or 18 goals in the season. So I realized to myself I could score goals at that level. But I always remember there were two things that stuck in my mind. One, I was coming from a Premier League team. So I was coming from Redding, who was in a pre a Premier League team at the time, and it was always said to me that because I was coming from a Premier League team, I was a theoretical Premier League player or part of the Premier League team. So I my standards have got to be Premier League standard. You know, my touch has got to be good, my attitude's got to be good, my my timekeeping's got to be good. All of these have got to be Premier League standard. So that was always one thing I took in every day training, you know, hate people that generally don't care too much, and that doesn't really sit well with me. And it was always the one thing that my dad always used to say to me is like, you have to be the best player at that team. Like that's got to be your mindset. You know, it doesn't matter if somebody's coming from Man City or someone's coming from Spurs or someone like you have to be that one person, you know, the ball's got to come to you. It's got you know, and that always sort of stuck in my mind.

SPEAKER_00: 14:28

Having to be the best, does that mean one of the bits I always look at or think about is who sets your standard then? Are you setting your standard by you by of what you see and what you believe excellent is, or are you looking at others and that player and thinking, alright, well, whatever that is, that's what I need to do?

SPEAKER_01: 14:47

Well, I think when you go on loan, I think there's two reasons why you go on loan. One, the football club that you're going to need their bed injuries, or they're they're struggling at the bottom of the league, or whatever. So they need someone, so you have to then go to there and be the standard of the club that you've come from. And then there's also that, which is the standard of the club you've come from. So you can look at the club you're going to and be like, there's obviously a reason that you are either bottom of the league, or there's always a reason that I'm coming in. So I have to lift the standard of everybody else around me. I mean, I was 18, 19 at the time, so like I had no authority to be able to be going into a dressing room full of like 26, 27-year-old like men going, buck up your ideas, lads. Come on, let's let's start let's start winning some games of football. Like, I think it would just it was how I conducted myself.

SPEAKER_00: 15:39

I get it. So it I mean it it's you, it's you you kind of are setting your standard. You might learn what it is, because you you're in an environment of excellence at Reading in Premier League, you know what good looks like. But then it's do you know, it actually takes a bit of guts to keep that going, doesn't it? Because like you say, you're going in with you're going into a trenchment of men, of experienced individuals who are again seasoned pros. You need to demonstrate what good looks like and you need to be able to do that without fear that they're then going to I don't know, try and beat the crap out of you.

SPEAKER_01: 16:08

Well, generally, like it's my first loan spell at Northampton, like you had people like Sean Dyesh in there, right? He was a centre-half at Northampton when I went there, and I remember like first couple of days of trading, like he would take nothing out of anybody. Like, you know, if you didn't run, he would tell you you didn't run. And you're thinking to yourself like you're this cocky 18-year-old kid with no background whatsoever, you've got to set a standard that I want to live up to. It's very easy to come into a dressing room and say, I can do so much. Like I, you know, I I'm the best player, but unless you show it, you know, the words don't mean anything.

SPEAKER_00: 16:47

Yeah, that's right. So for you in your career, you continue to move on the up, you continue to push, you know, like we say, there's you know, it's 500 games or appearances that we, you know, that you've got to your name. What do you see as a sort of a defining moment for you from a playing perspective? That really, you know, did you ever feel that there was boom, I've hit this trajectory and and things really started ticking on for you?

SPEAKER_01: 17:08

Yeah, it was probably the next season on after that. I signed for Swindon permanently, so I left Reading. So I went away from the comfort of being in the Premier League club, and you know, and I was fighting for three points every week. And I just, you know, I just thought to myself, I'm gonna need to actually like really knuckle down on this. I don't want to be in League One all my life. You know, I want to I want to make a career out of it. And the only way to do that is by you know scoring goals, really. And that following season, I think I hit 32 goals, so I was like joint top goal scorer of of all four leagues. Every week I was being touted about being going somewhere in January, going somewhere in the summer, and then I think that's where it comes down to sort of like your mental strength, really, because it's very easy to get carried away with that sort of stuff. But I had a really good relationship with the owner and the chairman of of Swindon at the time, and we were really honest with each other. You know, we were always in constant communication about like you know, January, he was like, Oh, you're not gonna leave anywhere. He said, like, you know, we want to get you to the summer, and then when you get to the summer, like you're gonna have a you know plethora of clubs available to you. So I was like, fine, no problem. I still had bids come in on in January, but he was like, nah, not interested. And I just carried on, and like I say, I had a really, really good season, and then you know, it was basically pick and choose your club at the end of it. It was great.

SPEAKER_00: 18:38

I just want to ask how you made that decision or what decisions you made. As you're kicking through that season, where did you think your career could take you? What was that wildest dream that you had?

SPEAKER_01: 18:48

Well, I always thought I could play in the Premier League. That was always the goal. The goal was always to get there. I think anybody, any young kid has to have that aspiration. You know, if it ever becomes a reality, is is that's I think the issue. Yeah, I know that. I know that so I think from from my perspective, after scoring so many goals, the next decision I had to make was which is the best club for me and my progression compared to which is the biggest football club or which is the club that's gonna, you know, w which I'm gonna earn more money at.

SPEAKER_00: 19:20

Yeah. And and so as that season came to an end, came to a close, is that what was running through your mind?

SPEAKER_01: 19:28

Well, I think it just you know, you you get put by your agent, you get put all the all the scenarios on the table. You know, like I say, I was constantly in in chat with the uh with the chairman. So he was very honest, you know, if if a bid came in, he'd pick up the phone and be like, Simon, we've just had a bid from whoever. He said, like, it's not enough. But if you tell me that you don't want to go there, then we'll just say it's not the club for me for him, he doesn't want to go there. So it took all all of um all of the summer because the clubs and that funny enough, the clubs that were interested in me were all out of managers, so they all sacked their managers. And then, quick story so Tony Mowbray, who was West Brom's manager uh the season they got relegated. He so I had Chief Scout, director of football, assistant manager, then the manager all come down to watch me at Swindon. All of them said yes, bar Tony Mowbray. They all wanted to take me, said yeah, it'd be a great addition to the football club, but he was the one person who said no. So in that summer, I had West Brom, who had just sacked Tony Mowbray. I had Newcastle, who had Alan Shearer in charge as they got relegated from the Premier League, and I had Celtic in like they were the three main clubs. Like Leicester were in there as well, but they didn't really progress in the talks and stuff. Tony Mowbray gets a sack from West Brom, he then becomes the manager of Celtic. So then Celtic comes off the table because Tony Mowbray doesn't want to doesn't want me uh uh West Brom, so I'm out of there, and then I have to weigh up which is the best option between West Brom and Newcastle, and obviously neither of those had had um appointed a manager yet. So, and then you're in a bit of a limbo situation in that's in that situation because even if it's the director of football that wants you to bring you in, the new manager might not want you. So you kind of have to get an understand who the manager's gonna be, what they think of you, do they want to bring you in or not, or is it or is it a hierarchy appointment, and then you could easily just sit in the under-21s all for for long. So I had a lot going on in that summer, so it took a long, it took a long time, and then it wasn't until like I think the second or third week of preseason did I actually make my decision, and West Brom appointed their manager first, and I I ended up going no.

SPEAKER_00: 21:46

And the rest is history, as they say. But it it is yeah, but it is an interesting it's that dilemma, isn't it? You you know, everything you've just gone through there, making your decisions based on who the manager is is really important, but then you also want the right club structure that that comes with it, and to you know, to be honest, it's the same outside of sport where you might like the organisation, but who's your manager? Because that manager will drive your culture, they'll tell you every day whether or not you're gonna enjoy it and whether you're actually whether or not you're gonna be successful.

SPEAKER_01: 22:18

And and I I to be honest, I bring that here, you know, I try and make a smile for every single person that comes in, you know, give them the best that I've got for the day, so they can give the best that they've got.

SPEAKER_00: 22:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:32

Because if I walk in here and you know, 20 people come and do a session with me, and I'm like like looking miserable and not happy, and and and then I go, guys, this is what you're doing today, this is the timings I see, I see an hour, like that's that's not gonna really motivate anybody, and they're not gonna get a great session. So I think I feel like it is you your environment will dictate how how many people come, but for me, how many people come in, but how well your staff and how well your your players do in in football terms.

SPEAKER_00: 23:05

And and well look across your career, you went into many clubs. Many cultures then that were that would have been different for various reasons. What so when you look when you look back at the clubs you played in and you think about their cultures, which or culture, which ones what was there any essence where you could see it in many that really resonated with you to make you feel, yeah, that's the kind of culture that you know I want to create when I'm leading a team or leading a business. There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues, and unfortunately suicide. And so I think it's time for to act. Every year, we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life activity sport. It might be a retirement, injury, or they need to juggle your careers between sport and a job. As a former English professional footballer, I have somehow managed to transition on sport, into banking, strategy, innovation, and now life coach, career practitioner, and founder of the Second Wind Academy. So I want to help those around me find their career second with. Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, Second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.

SPEAKER_01: 24:28

So Roy Hodgson was brilliant at creating a team. Like, you know, we we spoke about if individual decisions, if I decide to run forward, that has a repercussions for the for the team. Roy was very much like, you don't run forward, that's it. Like you stay where you are. Like, this is this structure that we play from, and that's it. And and it was great for exactly what we needed at that time, and that that kind of resonates with me because I feel like if we stick to a structure and we continue to build and we continue to get better, and we br like in my business now, I bring more people in, we can do more things, and you know, we can make it better all the time. Whereas I think if you you want to shoot for the stars straight away, that doesn't necessarily always bring success. You know, you can win, you can win 6'5 every game. It's great for an entertainment sport, but the the the heart will will give up surely halfway through the season. So yeah, I think from his perspective, and I and I think from my coaching style, if I was going to go into football, even though I was a striker, from a defensive perspective, I understand what I didn't like to play against, and I understand like how hard defenders used to make it for me, so I would expect my defenders to make it hard for every centre forward. Um and then as a as a striker, not you kind of get free will, but I think in the final third of the play, yes, you should have free will, and as long as there's a sounds really weird, as long as there's a structure to that free will, like you you have to, you know, you have to create the runs, the runs have to be good, but when you make them is up to you, and what you know and what paths you decide to make is up to you. Like I'm not I'm not gonna tell you how you do this, like that's got to be up to you. Um so I feel like that would have been my style, and that goes for the same in here.

SPEAKER_00: 26:22

Look, I mean it's the creativity creativity with borders, you know, sort of could be innovation, it sort of moves you forward, and you know you know when that creativity can happen and how it'll deliver value. And I guess that creativity without it, just go and run around. Like I said, there's no structure, no one knows what one another's doing. So the the team can't come together.

SPEAKER_01: 26:42

No, no, not at all. But I I I think in in today's football, for sure, it's all about man management and that and that's business as well. You know, if all of a sudden you don't talk to your staff or you don't understand where they're at, what their what their good bits are, what their bad bits are, how we can improve, like they'll just they'll look for the next job very quickly, and then they'll leave you as quick as they came in.

SPEAKER_00: 27:09

How much of that do you think you brought with you from football?

SPEAKER_01: 27:13

I think it's a bit of a blessing and a curse sometimes because of the like some of the sessions I put on, I look at some and I think, oh, that's a really good session. Like some of the movements are great, and I expect people to be able to do it. But then when people can't do it, I'm like, what are you doing? I can't believe you can't do that movement. So, but then like you have to understand, and and that's no different in football, and that's and that's no different in business.

SPEAKER_00: 27:38

Like you have to understand people's strengths and weaknesses, yes, meet them where they are, if you you know, and but and then bring them along. I guess there's that yeah, that coaching aspect in you will, you know, it must come out there as well.

SPEAKER_01: 27:50

Well, go back to the first point that we were making, like my for me, I thought that I was had to be the best player, so I had to bring the standard up, right? So, same now. I my standard is that you have to be able to do this exercise. If you can't do it, right, how do I make you do this exercise? So it's yeah, I feel like it's exactly the same now.

SPEAKER_00: 28:12

You mentioned as you sort of hit towards the end of your career, you you started doing your masters, right? So, did you maintain sort of an academic progress whilst you were a player and whilst you were sort of you know moving through the clubs and through the ranks?

SPEAKER_01: 28:28

I only did my uh B license I did my B licence coaching when I was 28. I did my A license, I think, when I was 30, and then I did my masters while I was out in Australia.

SPEAKER_00: 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:40

I was I only I I actually only did my masters purely and simply because I went out there because I was like I I was away from um everything that I knew was gonna be a distraction, so I had nothing but time on my hands, so I might as well make use of that time.

SPEAKER_00: 28:57

I tell you what, that's a great advert for anyone thinking of playing overseas or at least coming over to Oz. Um come over toward towards the end of your career and and do a master's. Learn.

SPEAKER_01: 29:08

And learn, just continue learning.

SPEAKER_00: 29:11

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:12

Because I think from my perspective, like I came out there on my own, I I had you know some intentions to stay, depending on the situations and and how they unfolded. And I thought a master's or in especially a football business, because I was gonna be a I wanted to be a coach, I thought that was gonna help me. And if I stayed out in Oz for the last I don't know, you know, for 10 years or so, I I could have made my way through the system. Uh, you know, whether it had been in an academy coach into an assistant manager's coach into a manager, whether that took me into a director of football's role or or whatever. And and I've seen the growth of the A League and how much they they want to try and follow European football in their structures, but just don't have the infrastructure to follow it.

SPEAKER_00: 29:59

That's right.

SPEAKER_01: 30:00

So like I in my head I I had how can I help it grow to the European standard of football? But it just like circumstances changed and and I I end up coming home.

SPEAKER_00: 30:12

Well look, you you had to throughout your career change clubs, change environments, shift cultures and keep going. What helped you to well, in fact, before I say what helped you to keep going, did you? When you had to come back through COVID, retiring through that, what was that experience like for you?

SPEAKER_01: 30:31

So hard. Like to because because it was so unknown, like nobody knew how long it was going to last for, you know, I didn't know really what I was going to be able to do, how long I was going to be able to not do anything for. So, you know, there are things like I joined LinkedIn. I know that's a strange thing. Like I was like, oh, more social media, I love it. So I was like, okay, so how do I make connections? You know, old managers, managers I played against, old teammates, again, directors of footballs, agents, etc. Like I was trying to make as many connections, trying to jump on as many Zoom calls with people as I possibly could.

SPEAKER_00: 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:09

Just to try and get an understanding of how they got to where they are, what the processes are like, and and try and give myself an opportunity. Like if I needed to pick up the phone and I've, you know, I've spent an hour with somebody on a Zoom call, for example, and and and then we get a good connection, then there's a chance that that person might go, yeah, you know, we've got we've got this position available. I think you'd be great at it. Fantastic. Um so that's what I tried to do throughout COVID, really.

SPEAKER_00: 31:36

Yeah. And fantastic that you may have fallen, but you kind of fell forward in that regard. You reached out, you connected, and you you continue to learn.

SPEAKER_01: 31:48

Yeah, I think it's always that same thing, right? It's not what you know, it's who you know. But I think you have to have a connection with people. People don't just give you an opportunity, they they need to they need to understand, and and this is where like I think football's a little bit different. If you're a manager, you're only one of one. If you're a football player, you're probably one of 25, right? You might have four strikers, so you're one of four. So the the niche gets lesser as you become the manager. So then it becomes about connections and how much you like. If if I was going to go and be like an assistant manager, you need to you need to have a manager that respects your view. They want to know they want to understand how you work and then what your points and uh and where your trajectory is as well. Because a lot of managers are quite scared of their assistant manager if they don't know them that well, because there's always that case of like, if all of a sudden we lose four games on this on the bounce, is my assistant manager gonna start stabbing me in the back because he wants to be the manager, you know, and I feel like you have to have as long as everybody knows their their role, then I think you know, especially football managers will normally do quite well, and that's why they tend to take their managers with uh their their team with them, right?

SPEAKER_00: 33:01

It's that that trust, and you know, we we spoke about it earlier around the the importance of decisions when you're the boss, when you know it's on you, and you know, you sort of describe there this I guess a role of a manager is a a bit solitary perhaps, and certainly where there's a a lot of a lot of pressure, and it's then important to trust your backroom team, to trust your assistants and get them there, which which I guess leads us on nicely to sort of what you are up to nowadays with you know moving on and now setting up your own thing. Just you know, I'm I'm interested just to learn a little bit more about what what that is.

SPEAKER_01: 33:34

Yeah, so very similar to F-45, so still group training, so still have that same core ethic of of working as a team. We do a lot of events, so we're massively into our uh high rocks events, functional training events, so we we love doing that. We just had some people compete at the weekend. I I've also got a reform of Pilates studio, don't get me wrong, I don't teach that.

SPEAKER_00: 33:56

I need to do more of that, I do.

SPEAKER_01: 33:58

Yeah, so I think we all do, yeah, yeah, but yeah, so again, right? So here's here's the different styles of management. One I actually coach in, so the gym side, and then the Pilates is run by somebody else. So you give guidance, you give you give KPIs for the month, for six months, quarterly, whatever, and then you have your meetings and you understand it. So two very different styles, all within under one one brand.

SPEAKER_00: 34:25

I'm curious then, because you know, you made the decision to pivot from F45 but you didn't leave the industry. You sort of rebirthed into something else, something that's perhaps even more of your own and in your own sort of cultural shape. Why? Why not why not leave? Why not why not do something else?

SPEAKER_01: 34:46

Honestly, it was the people. Like I spent two and a half years making connections, making relationships with helping people get to a really good, like or help them feel great, and I didn't want to let them down. That was a genuine like reason why I didn't just close the door, walk away, go into something else, go into a corporate nine to five. I I wanted to continue helping people, and I still want to do that for you know thousands more people. But the relationships that I built over the two and a half years as F-45 with the people that we have that come through here every day, it just meant so much to me. To my detriment, by the way.

SPEAKER_00: 35:23

The people's man. That's it, that's what you have to remind, remind everybody. Yeah. So running a business, we were talking about that, you know, the the well, the importance of decisions, I I suppose. And you know, you you're a manager of a different kind of team uh at the moment, and that that's running forward. When you think about how you then set goals and how you know you said you've got KPIs, what are the similarities you see in the way that you're setting goals in as a business, as you as you think you would be doing, or at least you saw, from football club owners?

SPEAKER_01: 35:55

Well, uh uh realistically, any football club owners that the only thing they really really care about is winning on a Saturday, right? You know, i if you're a mid-table team, they don't care whether they finish 10th or 15th, as long as they stay in that division or might push for a playoff place, as long as they stay away from the relegation zone, I think I think most owners are quite happy. Um so from my perspective as a business owner, we have to win three points every day. Right? So we have to continuously be the best at what we do every single day. Um I speak to I speak to my my uh head trainer every single day. We you know, we goal set every week, whether that's in terms of member incoming, whether that's you know, making sure that our socials are great, whether that's gaining feedback from members, you know, how can we, you know, is there an event that we can is there an event that's that's coming up in six months time that we you know we can look at, you know, we've planned our Christmas party and stuff already, like all of these sort of things. Like as a manager of a football club, you you probably plan a month or two months in advance, right? It's all the stuff like travel, food, days off, training days, times of training, etc. And and I feel like that's the kind of planning that I have to bring into to this business, you know, like what I expect my how or what time I expect my trainers to come in before their sessions, how they're meant to look, what they're meant to dress in, all of these things that I generally think make a make a big, big difference.

SPEAKER_00: 37:36

Yeah, absolutely. I'm interested then, I guess a a couple more questions and I'll I'll let you get back to running the running the running the gym. But when you think then where you want to go next. Actually, where do you want to take your career next? What do you see as those as that next that highlight the the bit that you're really trying to achieve now?

SPEAKER_01: 37:56

Well I want to I want to open up, you know, two or three, four of these. I've been part of a franchise. I know there's good things about being a fr part of a franchise, and I know there's bad things about being part of a franchise. So what I would like to do is actually I would like to rather open up a couple of these, but oversee how they're run and give information and guidance to anybody who's been or wants to do open a gym or wants to manage people because I feel like one thing I'm good at is being honest. And sometimes people don't like that honesty, but some people need to hear that honesty. And when you are honest with people, it's up to them how they take it. And I think in terms of running a business, when I look at some owners or when I look at some managers, you know, even having to deal with people day to day, I feel like it's there's a way that I do it that I genuinely believe resonates with the people that we have coming in. And I've been to multiple gyms before and I've been to multiple businesses before when the owner's there and they couldn't care less whether you're walking in or not. And that to me never sits right. You know, if you were the owner of a football club and you didn't know every player by name or they didn't know you by name, I think that's so poor because the people that employ you, you should want to know, and they should want to get to know you. You know, there's a big thing about like Eddie Howe. When he first went into Newcastle, he got every player to write down their names, their date of births, their etc. And then he did it for their wives, girlfriends, kids, their whole names, date of births, birthdays, etc. So that he knew that on Tuesday, the 14th of January, it's Dan Burns' wife's 37th birthday, and he goes, How's I don't even know his I don't know his wife's name, but how's Laura's how's Laura's birthday going? Do you know what I mean? And I think like, and that that will make him feel great, and that's what it's all like for me, that's what it's all about, is having that relationship with your higher, whoever that person is, and understanding that we go back to the culture of it, and I think the culture that you create should be one that you wanted to be in yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 40:06

I understand that, and it is we've touched on culture and certainly gone around that point. On it sounds like that's one of the bits you know you're quite passionate about as well, is is establishing that and creating that right environment.

SPEAKER_01: 40:18

Yeah, because if you walk into the office every day with a smile, chances are you're gonna have a good day. If you don't necessarily have a good day, but the person next to you sees that you're smiling, it might be infectious to them.

SPEAKER_00: 40:28

Yeah, yes, that's right. That's it. And I do like it when you see, you know, good pictures of Klopp coming in when he was back at Liverpool and hugging everybody and things like that, and that was sort of a key part of that culture. And sometimes that was really cool. So look, I guess the last question really is lots of players, athletes who are watching this, thinking, listening to this, in their minds, contemplating what they're gonna be doing in that life after sport and thinking about how they're best prepare. I guess with this slant on perhaps you know going into the fitness industry, what sort of guidance or advice would you give to them to best prepare for that life after the game?

SPEAKER_01: 41:03

You've got to start really early. Unfortunately, retirement starts at like 18. That plan starts at 18. Like it no, no young footballer ever wants to hear that at all. And unfortunately, but that's where it starts. You know, we all want to be earning the tens of millions of pounds a year, but unfortunately, that's not always the case for for a lot of people. So I would say that like throughout your career, you know, try and learn as much as you possibly can, try and make as many connections as you possibly can, and try and keep those connections throughout your career. You know, that might even just be a message here and there, you know. Sounds very strange, but even at Christmas, have you know, Merry Christmas, hope you and the family are well. You know, that one message that might just help you out later on in life. And if you can do that from the age of 18, then I think you get a good start at the uh retirement.

SPEAKER_00: 41:54

I really like that, Simon. Thank you. That extra bit about making the network, but then that effort to keep in touch with them, send them that those notes, let them know you're thinking of them at those times as well. I think that's really powerful.

SPEAKER_01: 42:06

Put it this way in a football career, like for me, 17-year career, probably played with, you know, a couple of hundred people, right? Probably knew around about a thousand people throughout my whole career. Probably walked out of football with about four friends.

SPEAKER_00: 42:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 42:19

You know, that's just the way it works. You know, sometimes it you don't always keep in contact with everybody, you don't always like everybody. But the reality of the whole situation is you play with so many, you get to meet so many, but you come out with so few. So if you can continue trying to build those relationships, continue to and keep those relationships throughout your career, then I think you stand a good chance at the end.

SPEAKER_00: 42:43

Simon, thank you very much for coming on and sharing your story. There are going to be people who are gonna want to get in touch, perhaps come and have a session with you as well. What's the best place to find you, get in contact, follow your story?

SPEAKER_01: 42:55

Follow me on Instagram. So S Cox E31. I'm on LinkedIn under Simon Cox. Just drop me a follow, get me get involved, and I'm always available for a chat.

SPEAKER_00: 43:04

Good man, too easy. Well, look, I've just got to say, thank God. There we go. Too easy again. That's too easy. That's it. The Yorkshire Aussie man. Look, I've just got to say thanks again for joining me for this conversation. I've I've certainly enjoyed it, and yeah, thanks very much.

SPEAKER_01: 43:18

Cheers, Ryan.

SPEAKER_00: 43:19

Appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the Second Win podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwin.io for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions, and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy until next time.