Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves
Former professional footballer Ryan Gonsalves dives deep into the unique challenges and triumphs of transitioning from elite sports to fulfilling careers. Through candid conversations with athletes, the Career Clarity Podcast explores their inspiring journeys, uncovering lessons on identity, resilience, and reinvention. Whether you're an athlete or simply seeking inspiration for your next chapter, this podcast will empower you to unleash your second wind.
Ryan Gonsalves transitioned from professional football with Huddersfield Town in the English Footbaal League, to a career in financial services by leveraging his adaptability, transferable skills, and willingness to embrace new opportunities.
While playing semi-professional football, he pursued education and began working at GE Money Capital Bank, where he gained global experience and developed expertise in Lean Six Sigma and process improvement. His sports background often helped him stand out during interviews, creating memorable connections with hiring managers.
Later, Ryan joined HSBC in Hong Kong, where he worked for nearly a decade in consumer banking, focusing on global projects such as researching homeownership behaviors. His ability to understand consumer insights and behavior became a cornerstone of his success in the financial sector. After over 20 years in banking (including back in Australia at AMP, Westpac, COmmenwealth Bank and NSW Treasury, Ryan transitioned into career coaching, inspired by helping fellow athletes navigate their post-sports careers.
Ready to take the next step? Connect with Ryan at letschat@2ndwind.io.
Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves
182: Joseph Ogacion - The Mindset of a Dual-Sport Athlete: From Two Sports to Olympic Start Lines
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Joseph Ogacion grew up in the Philippines, once averaging 0.5 points per varsity basketball game, watching the Sydney Olympics on TV and dreaming of racing there one day. He wasn’t the tallest, the strongest, or the most resourced. But he had something else: the ability to suffer more than anyone else.
Today, Joseph is a marathoner headed to the Paris 2024 Olympics and an elite time trial cyclist, juggling two world-class disciplines while working full-time in pediatric physiotherapy in Australia.
What You’ll Hear
- Why his average of 0.5 points per game in high school basketball became the unexpected beginning of his running career
- How skipping meals to afford a secondhand bike became the gateway to elite cycling
- What it means to be “fair to your sport” and honest with your effort
- The link between his physiotherapy training and athletic edge
- Why he trains at an average heart rate of 181 and what that says about his physiology
- How he learned to channel self-doubt into world-class endurance
- Why switching nationality from the Philippines to Australia opened the door to greater competition
- What every athlete can learn about adaptability and control
- The surprising crossover between hitting Olympic splits and sales quotas at work
- How he balances ambition, fatherhood, and a demanding career
- Why breaking down big goals into daily 3.52-hour training blocks changed everything
- What meeting childhood idol Steve Moneghetti meant after 25 years of dreaming
Golden Nugget
“Be fair to the sport. Every step, every rep, do it with intent. The sport is always fair. You may not see the rewards next week, but after ten or fifteen years, they show up.”
Want to Go Deeper?
If you are looking for career clarity for your next step, visit www.2ndwind.io
to learn more or book a consult.
Opening, Meet Joseph
SPEAKER_01When there's a game, I'm I'm just getting in because there's like a technical free throw. Gonna shoot one or two free throws and then the coach will pull you out. So probably I'll average 0.5 points in my full varsity career. But yeah, basically what happened is I realized I'm really good at running when I won my first race. So I knew right away that if because running is different. And I told myself if if the sport is about suffering, I can suffer more than anyone else.
SPEAKER_00Hi, I'm Ryan Gonzalvet, and welcome to the Second Wind Academy Podcast. A show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes. Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story. Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations. Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty. Elite athletes are still people athletic. Let's be inspired by the stories of others. Joseph, welcome to the show. Great to have you here. Yeah, thank you for having me, right? Yeah, it's um well actually it's good it's good to catch up again because it's been I suppose it's been a few months since we uh bumped into one another, I guess, at a a a shop opening or a clinic opening. And um, yeah, we just got chatting there and I thought, hey, this is gonna be uh it'll be great to just bring a bit more of your conversation uh onto the show. So thanks for being open to to pick up where we left off. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um well listen, uh Joe, why don't we kick off with an introduction? So just for those who are listening, watching who don't know who you are, just give us a just give us a quick intro.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically I'm Joseph, Joseph Gashan. I'm originally from Philippines, and I'm a Paris Olympic qualifier for the marathon, and I'll do a little bit of cycling here and there. So I'm moving to now to Australia, basically pursuing a little bit of a career also right around in pediatric physiotherapy at the same time pursuing still sports at the age of 30.
SPEAKER_00Love that. Thank you. Listen, that's a great intro. Do you know what I found from all these intros that the humility is absolutely fantastic? I like the way that you yeah, qualify for Paris Olympics in the mouth and do a bit of cycling as well. Um, you know, from an athletic perspective alone, I think it's a bit more than that. Because I know what what really got me thinking was how do you qualify? How can you be world class in two sports and and have to actually start to make choices um between
Dual Sport: Marathon And TT Cycling
SPEAKER_00the sports? So when you say a little bit of cycling, just talk a bit there. You you know the the bit that gets me is you were world class in two sports. Talk to me a bit about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically in cycling, there's two types of disciplines. Basically, I think most of the people will ask for the bronze. Uh basically, that's called road cycling. So the discipline I specialize on is it's called time trial cycling. So when you say time trial, we call it the TT. We have different types of bikes. Probably on the screen, you can see it briefly. On the left side of me is actually just your standard road bike, and then on the right side of mine is specialized bikes. So these are time trial bikes. We're in we're riding at speeds of probably 50, 60 kilometers per hour, and then you have to cover, you have to hold that speed for probably a good hour if you're really strong enough.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, gotta be kind of strong. So you were you are you're looking enough to have sort of been invited to represent your country in both tight TT and in endure or and in marathon running, yeah? Exactly. And listen, we're gonna come back to sort of what you're doing now, but I I I I wanted to start with this dual sport and the fact that clearly you couldn't choose. You just you were just good at sport. But tell me then. Did you grow up with like, you know, in Philippines, like you were saying, did you grow up then just doing lots of different sports before you found what you I guess were naturally good at?
SPEAKER_01You know, the funny thing is in the Philippines, basically the famous sports will be basketball. Basically basketball. Everyone wants to play basketball. I came from a family basically one of the best football families in the country. My father used to play professional football in the Philippines. Then when he had a family already, he has to choose either to drop the playing because it doesn't make enough money, or to choose a job. He chooses the latter to choose a job. So growing up, I'm hearing stories about my dad playing football, and basically in there's a village named Ilo Ilo City, probably one of the best football players are from there. And then it's sort of just stories for me. I tried doing a little bit of football, I'm not really good at it. And then I tried basketball. I dedicated myself to basketball, probably as early as third grade. I dreamt of like play playing in the PBA,
Growing Up In The Philippines
SPEAKER_01it's like a local basketball league there. And then the problem is I'm just five book five tall. I'm really small. So uh the height isn't there, so probably I'll just play guard, so a one guard, and played that a bit until high school, so that would be 12th grade, but still couldn't make it because once you get to the collegiate athletes, you have to be at least six feet tall. During that time when we have what we call basketball training, I remember this as early as probably 11, 12 years old. We used to do basketball training in the morning. So it's just a normal one hour, two hour training. And then when I go home, I told myself, I'm not being chosen by my coach, I need to do extra work. So the funny thing is, I'm doing like push-ups, sit-ups, and then running in a ridiculous manner. So to the point that every single day, and my brothers can attest to this, probably at the age of 13 or 14, I'm doing like 600 push-ups, 600 sit-ups, 600 squats, and then basically a 10-mile uh six-mile run every day or 10-kilometer run every single day. Because my theory is if I'm not as good as anyone else, may as well I just double the effort that I need to do, and then I'm gonna catch them. And then it's sort of converted when there's a local running league. So basically grade schoolers, there's like a local, we call it a fun run or like a park run, let's say. And then there's a bunch of collegiate athletes to join there. I entried myself to join the competition. I didn't know what the 10k is. So basically just entry it, little though. I know I won it. And then it caught the attention now of my current coach, which is Coach June, which he told me, okay, you got a tad bit of talent, let's own that thing. And then that again, every single session that he told me, basically I double it or triple it. So it's that kind of mindset that I have because I need to make up to that, let's say, gap that I think I don't have against other athletes. So I always think that I'm always at the disadvantaged side of things.
SPEAKER_00Right. And so that disadvantage that you put on yourself kind of inspired you to, well, like you say, no one's gonna out train you, but basically push yourself harder, double, triple whatever it was that anybody else was doing. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But doing that from a a fitness or from a, I guess, a running perspective, at what point did you did you then start to realize, hey, I'm I'm really good at this?
SPEAKER_01Oh, probably on the first race, I knew I'm good already. Funny thing is people ask, uh, when did you think you know it already? When I won my first race, I knew that he's in basketball, like I tell you, Ryan, when there's a game, I'm I'm just getting in because there's like a technical free throw. Gonna shoot one or two free throws and then the coach will pull you out. So probably I'll average 0.5 points in my whole varsity career. But yeah, basically what happened is I realized I'm really good at running when I won my first race. So I knew right away that if because running is different. I I told myself, if the sport is about suffering, I can suffer more than anyone else. So that's the thing that I focus on. And this is where the cycling comes in, because in the Philippines, uh cycling is not that big of a sport. So I remember I got my first bike basically, it's basically lunch allowances that I have to skip meals for months and months and months just to mine my first bike. With the help of my dad, he showed out a lot of his money to buy my first racing mic, and that's where it started. So it kind of focuses on also in, let's say, running, whether it's 10K or the marathon, it's a long suffering. Cycling is the same. So, and when people ask me, why do you love this sport? It's kind of odd, but I like to suffer and I like to make people suffer during the race, which is the funny thing is it's sort of a meditatory state for me. People will be thinking, Oh, this guy's crazy, you know, but it makes me smile all the time when it's hurting already, and you have to
Discovering Running Through Overwork
SPEAKER_01either inflict pain or get the pain from the other competitor.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so when people say that they think you're crazy, how do you respond to that? Um, not really.
SPEAKER_01So it's kind of different because I'm the type of kid that basically I don't have any social, let's say, acquaintances. Probably I can count count it in a handful, probably got a good five or ten friends. But basically, the reason behind it is every single day that I have, I as long as I can remember. And the funny thing is I live in Sydney now, but I remember when I was five years old, I told my mom I was watching the Sydney Olympics wherein Steve Monaghetti's running, and I told her, I'm gonna run the marathon in the future. And now I'm living in Sydney Olympic Park. But back then I knew that something will happen, but I just didn't know what it is, and it's sort of my self-decision that let's say there's some night out with the friends, I'll choose to come home early and pitch in a one hour, two hour session after that. Let's say my friends will go out for some dinner. I still choose that, and you'll be the odd one out. But the funny thing is, after probably good 20 years of doing it, all the effort came in now, and people will think, okay, how did it get to that position? But basically, it's sort of years and years and years of basically isolating myself and probably dedicating myself to the sport in a way that I think it's fair to the sport also.
SPEAKER_00We'll come back to that's an interesting point that you think is fair to the sport. I'm interested, though, as you were doing essentially the running or suffering bit running, be on the bike, how far did you think you could go? I know you said you dreamt of getting to the Olympics when watching it in 2000, but you know, what were the sort of those real milestones for you when you're I mean, this is you coming out of the Philippines thinking, okay, can I represent my country? Can it take me overseas? As in, how clear was that thought? Was what sort of clarity did you have on as to where sports will take you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but basically, when people ask me retrospectively, what I'm sitting at right now talking to you, Ryan, basically going to Australia and having a chance to represent Australia in the future, is it's outside what I've ever dreamt of. I knew something will happen, but basically, just like anyone else, probably I spoke to a lot of, let's say, Marathon greats and Olympic greats, and they told me the same thing. It's like we just put in the effort and we didn't know that we're gonna get here. For me, I'm not there yet. I still have a good I'm I'm just 30. I know I still have good 10 years ahead of me, but it's just about putting the effort. You win, let's say, a state championship, that's good. Now you focus on the next thing. You get a national championship. When you get a national championship, you get a couple of those, it feels good. Now you start racing in Southeast Asia. So I raced my first Southeast Asian race in Singapore, which is sort out to be good, also. And then after that, you got the qualifying points for the Olympics, and then that's it. And then I moved to Australia. A lot of guys here in Australia are fast, so I was like, okay, the next the next focus now is to get into the top 10 of the past as Australians, and then I'll make my way there. So it's not sort of me just seeing myself right on the top, but it's just breaking it down at the present and staying at the present. Yeah. Because you don't know who you will be in the next six years. But if you focus on, let's say, I got you got a race next week, yeah, it's it's just gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00What's really clear to me is at first you had this oddly enough, it's a near-term goal, which is representing your country, represent country birth, representing Philippines, right? But you've it's as if now your next transition that you're in is saying, right, well, now how do you represent your your new country, your inherited country of Australia? That will, I guess, well, actually, no. I'm not gonna guess. I I want to ask why. What is it that now wants you to represent Australia in Marathon and and have that as your next chapter?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically two things. And I love Philippines, basically. I'm a Philippine by heart, but at the same time, it's like the Philippine Olympic team
Loving Suffering And Mental Edge
SPEAKER_01is basically it has a different scheme. And every single athlete in the Philippine will know this. It's like there's a politics involved there already, and let's say this is part of the podcast and those things, but it is what it is, and they can relate into that. And I can name probably 10 Filipino athletes that changed nationality in the last 10 years. And there's a reason behind that. It's because we're not well supported at the same time. The level of competition within the country is, to be honest, it's good, but once you face the big guns internationally, you're gonna eat some humble pie. And that that's gonna that's gonna bring you to the point that wait, I'm not that good after all. And at the end of the day, for me, sport is all about pushing yourself to the limit. It's not being, if I choose to become the best in my country, I never left my country. But my internal goal while I started racing is because I just want to know how much and how far can I go. Regardless if the best thing I can do is a national championship. It is what it is. That's the God-given talent that I have. But if I can bring more, it's just basically being fair again to the sport and the talent that you have.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so talk to me about that, being fair to your talent and fair to the sport.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically, yeah. A lot of people ask me because I always tell that for me, what I treat sport is basically, especially now with the social media coming in, it's a combination of two things. You will see basically athletes that are really dedicated to their sport. And then at the same time, you got basically influencers that basically there's two things. It brings people to the sport, but at the same time, it robs basically, not I can say raw, but basically it also gets the opportunities that the athlete athletes have sponsorship deals and those things. But being fair to the sport for me is basically doing the workouts. When people told you, okay, you gotta do the workout, do it with intent. For me, every single step that I do is basically with intent. Every single rep and cycle revolutions that I do is with intent. People will told me, crazy, do I listen to any music when I do indoor cycling? I did a three-hour session, five-hour session, and I'm listening to nothing. Basically, I'm just focusing on how my body moves. And once you do that, the results will happen because the sport is always fair. The sport is always fair. And there will be people that let's say there's doping, there's like easy ways to become faster and better. But at the same time, if you become fair to the sport, your time will come. It will not come, let's say, next week, but after 10 or 15 years of doing it, you're gonna get it. You're gonna get it. That's an and people will appreciate it more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm I'm sort of working through that rationale of of fairness. But to me, you're you're talking as much about recognizing the the talent perhaps that you've got, be that um, well, like you say, a God-given talent, but also a mental toughness. And it's saying, well, how do you how do you create the best, or how do you get the best out of the talent that you've got in a sport and in sport whereby the fastest uh person wins over that same distance, and so you know, I quite like that approach. It it it's it's it's kind of pure. It's like, and and because you talk about this mentality of suffering and you know, sort of a belief that, hey, if you can go through the pain, then that's gonna help you go further. I'm now sort of interested then in saying, well, in going through that pain from a sport perspective, how do you maintain life? Because if you're doing this five-hour training and you're putting yourself through all this suffering from a a financial, from a career perspective, how you how how have you been able to manage that that dual track?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically that's one thing. It's one thing, let's say, balancing workouts, let's say the time of the workout, this and that. But another thing is first thing, so let's say
Dreams, Milestones, And Staying Present
SPEAKER_01balancing a workout time is you gotta pitch in. It's it's different when you have I have a full-time job. Basically, I work with uh pediatrics uh mobility devices, and we're working closely with families, which I love really most because it's just another fulfilling job. But at the same time, every single job has pressures. Like I tell people, people will ask me in a career, what's the best career? Uh is it a work from home? Is it a hybrid setup? Is it a full-time job? Every single thing has pressure and life has pressures. And just like in sport, that's what I realized when I always tell people, when the thing gets tough, let's say this is a really tough day in a job, or whether in life, the next day will be better. So always just look at it in the perspective that in a career, when your boss tells you, oh, you gotta hit the sales, you gotta hit the sales, you gotta take a look at yourself. Why are they pushing you so much? Because they see potential in you guys. If we they don't push you that much. Basically, it's just nothing. If they don't call you, they give you, they don't give you a ring, they don't care about you. So, and that helped me in my career also. Because I've been in this industry for probably a good amount of since 10 years into zootherapy and then into sales perspective probably five years. And that helped me a lot, especially when hitting targets, when hitting quotas. So financially, you'll get sorted. So there's a carryover because it's like competition. It's not on the bike or on the run, but it's still something that keeps you ticking.
SPEAKER_00How did you get interested in physiotherapy? How did that begin for you?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. It's partly because I love running and cycling. So the funny thing is when I'm choosing a course in the unique, and this is where my mindset comes in. I ask my mother, what's the toughest course in the college? That because my mother's a chemist. So she's basically a dean of a college in the Philippines. And I asked her, what's the toughest course? What's the course that has the least amount of graduates? And then she told me, you take physiotherapy and you're not going to survive. And I was like, okay, I'll enroll myself into that course. That's it. So I was basically there because I was challenged at probably there's like seven graduates a year. And I was like, okay, if it's that tough, I'll fit there. But secondarily, I realized physiotherapy was like when you're studying human anatomy, physiology, and then the exercise physiology type of things, I was like, wait a minute, I can apply this to my running. I can apply this to my cycling. I can apply this to the sport. So and then I fell in love to the athletic process already. And then little do I know, I'm a physiotherapist already.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is, it's that full circle. What's really cool about that though is you were looking for the challenge. You're asking your mum, where can I suffer? You're asking your mum for one of the hardest things to do in order to then push yourself forward. And well, yeah, part of it is luck, part of it I I to an extent, but it's then applicable to what you were doing anyway. It's applicable to your sport, and it's something that then propelled your interest even further to, well, like you're saying now, to continue down that path.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. So it I don't know, it's just every single person. I I always tell my wife, it's like every single person's wired differently. And I'm just wired to probably if there's a straight road, I'm just gonna find the hardest way going there. But still, we're gonna get there. But it's kinda odd. It's kinda odd. So some people will go the shorter line, I'll go for the loop, and then a lot of zigzags, and then still we're gonna get there.
SPEAKER_00What do you think it is about that journey that excites you? The hard way, the uphill. Probably discovering yourself.
SPEAKER_01I think that's the biggest one. Discovery, self-discovery. Because every single session is like I've been doing injuries sport for like half of my life already, and every single session, you're still discovering something about yourself. And it's different. So people will think your workout will be like a 10-kilometer run in the morning, let's say a 30-minute run in the midday, and then another 10-kilometer run in the afternoon. But every single session, you feel different. So, and there's life around it. Let's say you bring in the kids early in the morning, they feel good, that's good. Do your workout. Midday, you finish a little bit of work, work's not so good, you still gotta do the workout. And then afternoon, the day may get better or worse, but you still gotta do the workout. So
Why Aim To Represent Australia
SPEAKER_01every single session, every single moment, there's like differences there already. And it's self-discovery. But okay, what things to improve? What how can I adapt to people? How can I do more to become a better husband, let's say, better father, best better athlete and everything?
SPEAKER_00In this terms of you know being better and discovering, what did you discover about yourself? So going through, you know, physiology, sports science, studying yourself. I mean, I'm guessing then you studied yourself as part of studies and and trying to make yourself a better person. What did you learn about yourself that made you world class? There are too many stories of bankruptcy, mental health issues, and for two is time. And so I think it's time for every year we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life activities for this might be a time injury or need to jump to your careers between sport and a job. I have somehow managed to transition from sport into fighting strategy innovation, and now life coach career practitioner and the founder of the TechnicWind Academy. So I want to help those around me find their career technical. Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, TechnicWind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
SPEAKER_01I think this one thing. So especially um for us, let's say Asian athletes, there's one thing. People most of the times we will say it's genetics, let's say the European athletes are better, the Western athletes are better because of genetics. But what I realize is when I start racing internationally, you got, let's say, Kenyan athletes, you got basically European athletes, you got Asian athletes, and all of them, let's say, can achieve a certain threshold of improvement. But there's a, let's say, physiological aspect, there's a limit. Let's say, let's say Elliot Kipchogi and Kelvin Kipsum, nobody can run another two-hour marathon. I assure you that. But basically, that's a physiological limit, but there's also what I call a psychological limit. And it depends from athlete. And every single athlete, the world-class athletes, when you're on the top of the echelon already, 99.9%, your fitness level are all the same, your VO2 max are all the same, your lactate threshold is all the same. The only difference is the 0.01%, and it's actually coming from here. So, and it's different, it's different because it's more of self-discovery. When I did physio school, I sort of looking for cues, basically, okay, probably the muscle length will be different, that's why they're faster, this and that. But what I've discovered is you can train that, you can convert that, let's say, muscle, isometric strength, elasticity, even let's say, amount of force generated through training. But the biggest factor is how well does the athlete adapt to the situation? Because in racing, let's say, even if it's a hundred meter dash, if your first two steps are off and you're the type of athlete that, okay, I'm sure you're done. You're basically blown away. In a 42k race, it's like two and a half hours at most. Yeah, you have plenty of moments to take. Yeah. So you can still adjust in everything. And that's life. When the right way doesn't work, you go left. If if one thing doesn't work, the same thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Have alternate routes. So how how have you applied that thinking? Because I I fully agree with you. So how have you applied that thinking towards your non-sport career in terms of where you work, how you work, things that you might develop or publish?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically, on my current job, especially in physiotherapy, it's also looking at the patient differently because especially in Australia, which a lot of the APA association is really good because you tend to mingle with a lot of
Fairness To The Sport And Integrity
SPEAKER_01international physios, and every single school of thought is different. But like I always say, there's no, let's say, single formula to heal a patient. So I specialize on mobility devices. I took a look at the patient. There may be like several equipments that fit that, but you tend to see it holistically. And usually what I see is let's say you fit a patient in a special wheelchair, and even though there's two patients of the same height, width, and everything, same case, they will sit on that thing differently. And partly it will be how you adapt to that thing. So in a career point of view, also for me, I'm in physiotherapy and sales, the sales is different. Every single client and patient is different. There's no let's say I'll give you the rule book and basically you'll hit a million dollar sales in a year. That's that's not real. So basically, it's it's all about listening to the clients. It's all about it's like a puzzle. Every single puzzle is different. So when you tend to discover that, and it's not gonna be a fun route, like I told you, closing a sale is not easy, not easy at all. But once you get that challenge already, it's sort of like fulfilling both, let's say, career-wise and of course financially, because you got commissions and everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's something you know I'm telling that you you look for, you look for that challenge. And hence um being in being a physio, but also being in in the sales side is something that I can tell excites you as well. It keeps you motivated to keep pushing yourself to those next limits. And so when you think about you know how you want your sporting career to go, when you think about the career side of things, how do you how do you see that? Where where where's that gonna go for you? Yeah, basically it's a difference.
SPEAKER_01So in a career point of view, because I work, I used to work for a company that had me also in the Philippines and then also moved in Australia and then I started with a new company here. And it's just opening new doors. Um, whether I'm not the type of guy that it's into, let's say I want to be a sales director and this and that. I'm always staying at the present. I always tell myself, okay, if my boss gave me, let's say, $1.2 million in sales target in a year, I gotta do every single thing to make that happen. Because if you hit the numbers, and a lot of people are this, what and that's what I've seen in basically the latest generation, right? They always see themselves driving the Mercedes, basically living in a penthouse and this and that. Guys, there's a process behind that. And if you don't stay on the present and you got caught in the future, the in-betweens, it doesn't line up. So it wouldn't happen if you can't sell, let's say, a million dollars a year. How can you sell five million? It's not gonna magically happen. And it's the same thing in sports. It's like, how can you run 42k at the pace of three minutes per kilometer if you cannot even do it at five kilometers? So it's all about the process, and I'm breaking it down in that way. I never see it, let's say I'll be this person in the future. I just stay on the present and it works for me. I'll just break it down day by day, execution.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then the results are there.
SPEAKER_00That's right. And it's sort of that you you're breaking down these long-term visions that can be perhaps complex, that for many, we just get scared. We look that far ahead and it's like, oh my god, I don't even know how I'm gonna do that, I don't know where to begin. And what you've mentioned a lot here is the importance of being present, the importance of following that process, really breaking things down and sort of committing to it, um, irrespective of how much suffering it is. I guess some of this stuff is not easy. It's not easy to run a marathon anyway, let alone be world class, let alone now move to Australia and try and take yourself to that next level. Likewise, hitting a sales target of $10,000, never mind 1.2 million, um these things are gonna take a lot of time to achieve. And you're really preaching this view on break it down, get it into these small bite-sized chunks and just commit to that process.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly. And the funny thing is, people ask me, um, how do you qualify for the Olympics? Like I always felt that there's a theory about athletes, and there's a study then done by that
Balancing Training With A Career
SPEAKER_01about training for 15,000 hours. So let's say the next Olympic block will be, let's say, you're targeting 2028 LA Olympics, basically just divide it into the number of times, and then that's it. For me, my focus is the Brisbane Olympics and Home Olympics here, because that will be a chance for me to represent Australia at home. I broke it down already. So I knew for myself that I have to train 3.52 hours a day every single day. So I'm I'm that focused on every single detail on that one. Because if I do it for the next six and a half years, I'll do the qualifying period. So it's basically I have one number in my mind, 3.52, and then I'll multiply it, and then I'll know I'm gonna achieve 15,000 hours of training, and by that point I'm gonna be elite again.
SPEAKER_00What about the doubts? Uh Zena, I I I would hear that and I'd be thinking, uh, things are gonna get in the way. Never mind my physical injury or anything like that, family, life, stuff. How does how does that impact you?
SPEAKER_01Of course, uh, like I'd always tell people will ask me, have you ever doubted yourself plenty of times? And but I always go back to that kid when I was like five years old, like dreaming going to watching Steve Monaghetti run the Olympics, and I was like, I'm inspired by that guy, and I was like, I'm gonna go to Sydney soon, I'm gonna go. I'm I told that to my mom when I was five, and it's pure innocence. But basically, having doubts to yourself is normal because you're only human. You're only human, like Chris McCormack told me before, it's like, yeah, you're only human, but basically, I doubt myself more times than anyone else. I tell you that. But I always tell myself that I just have to keep executing. Let's say your workout today is a 60 kilometer bike ride, and you only have one and a half hour to do it. It is what it is, that's life. But there will be days that you'll have, let's say, a good three-hour chunk that you can train. Let's say you wake up this morning, your plan is like a 10k run, you can't do it. It is what it is. Basically, focus on the present, focus on the things that you can focus on. If you can't train, eat healthy. Eat something that you can focus on. Do do your stretching.
SPEAKER_00So I'm just finding ways every single day. Yeah, you're finding ways. You you have a plan, but that plan isn't fixed. It's not rooted so that you can't adjust around it. You're you're able to, like you say, you can control what you can control. And where you can't, hey, you then have an alternative plan like that you can do something else to manage. And what I really like about what you said is you you have doubts. In fact, you probably doubt yourself more than anyone can imagine. But that's okay. That's you've you've normalized doubt. You haven't made it a thing in get this out of my head. You've kind of just said, yeah, okay. Um, and now how do I adjust? And you said before, adapt. Um, and I and I think that, yeah, I'm so I am picking up a lot from what you're saying, and I'm thinking, yeah, that's a good mentality to bring into this, having this plan, but be adaptable and and know how to adapt as well.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly, exactly. I remember the most nervous race I've been in is uh last year, Gold Coast Half Marathon. It's the Australian Half Marathon Championship, and it's my first race in like a first championship race in Australia, and I remember I walk into the start line, and they're calling the elites. And they're like, I look at my shoulder, I was like, this is the guy I competed in Singapore. So like the fastest guy in Singapore was there, and then I look behind me, it's like, oh, this is the guy I trained in with in Vietnam, and he's an Olympian also. I look at Franz, oh gosh, there's Fred Robinson, okay, on far far right, there's Andy Buchanan, and I was like, oh god. So I was like, oh man,
Choosing Physiotherapy For The Challenge
SPEAKER_01this is like gonna be good. And I was like, I'm doubting myself because I'm on that moment wherein I still feel like I'm the athlete from Philippines. But the funny thing is I'm wearing the Australian attire now. And it's kind of confusing for me because I was like, these are my and that's for me a full circle moment. I was like, these are the competitors I used to compete with ages in Southeast Asia, and now we're on the same race in Australia. There's like Japanese flounders, there's like everyone there, and I was like, okay, this is and I downloaded myself. I was like, am I worthy enough to wear the shirt, the green and gold? And I was like, but once the gun start goes in, it's like you're full automatic mode already. It's like, okay, just put your head down, focus on the execution, and then basically that's it.
SPEAKER_00You you just do your job, you just run the best that you can. Yeah, and you get and you get the rewards when that happens. So, and and that that's it. You've you know following that process. Now, you you know, you you mentioned there the shift. You still see yourself as the five-year-old Filipino boy saying, I'm gonna go and and race there, and then you see yourself on that start line in the green and gold. Um are you still that same boy from an identity perspective? Has it what's changed for you?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I actually people a lot of people think that way that a lot has changed. But to be honest, I see myself still see myself as that kid, that is a dreamer. Because yeah, it all started as a humble sport. It's all started as a kid who wants to discover himself how far can he go. And going back to Australia, that reignited something on me because back in the Philippines, to be honest, I was like, you're winning races, okay, you're doing this, you're doing that. But it sort of felt numb for me to be before I went in here in Australia, because probably it's not so easy, but it's not challenging anymore. And then when I moved to Australia, I was like, okay, this is where I'm supposed to be. This is where I should race. This is where that dream materialized because that's back then, when 25 years ago, that's where I dreamt to be in. And I was like, I remember when I met Steve Monegetti in Gold Coast Marathon. I was on that moment, I don't realize w the gravity of it, but when I went home, I was like, man, that happened. That happened. So he's my childhood idol. I'm doing Monogetti drills all the time. It's named after him. And I was like, okay, this guy's real. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's brilliant. I mean that that that really is wonderful to be I think achieving dreams, achieving a sporting dreams. But then actually racing and competing with someone like that. That must that must feel pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it is, it is. So I'm still chucked, but you know, it's like, okay, what's the next goal? What's the next goal? And I used to tell my wife, I remember good eight years ago in the Philippines, I told my wife, I was like, I'm gonna win the national championships. And y and I'm not thinking back then she's like, Okay, okay. Here's the crazy guy again. But I just worked towards it. And I after the race in Gold Coast, I told my wife, Give me three years, I'm gonna get to that top three slot. She's like, Okay.
SPEAKER_00And you're prepared to suffer, like you say, you you want to put
Self-Discovery Through Hard Roads
SPEAKER_00yourself into that into that zone, follow that process. I'm actually I'm gonna say not follow it, but you're gonna own the process in that you know what you need to do, you know how and where you can adapt to achieve that, and you're prepared to put the work in. And what I've really enjoyed hearing in this conversation is you're prepared to put that work um in the in in sport and in I guess the uh traditional careers alongside in you know, and and that that I think's wonderful how you've been able to break those two bits down. Um just on a slight um tangent, I know one of the bits that you mentioned to me when we were catching up was heart rate. And um I've just been I've just been talking to everybody about this. I said, You've got to hit Joseph. His heart rate just pops straight up. Just talk to me a bit about that because you when you talk about you really mean it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. So it's different because I used to do some training thoughts. Let's say, if you're familiar in running, there's a big let's say it's like a religion. So we we have what we call the Jack Daniels method, which is it's he's an American running coach. He's he coached basically one of the greatest marathon runners of America, and then now he Alan Ruck is being coached by him, and then basically the rule of context there is you got numbers in endurance, you got VO2 max, you got lactate threshold, and then basically all of it is like goes to the tangent of heart rate, so circling back. So especially with the running boom right now, people will think, okay, you got uh you got mass heart rate, aerobic heart rate, this and that. But what I've discovered is in myself, I'm not applying this to everyone, but of course, in general people, you will be good with let's say zone two running uh basically just easy talk talking pace, just enough to initiate that aerobic heart rate. Now, my type of racing is different because I always average between 181 beats per minute, and there was a race that I did for a half marathon wherein I averaged 205 for the whole race. That's average, not max, okay? You don't want to know what the max heart rate is. So basically, that's average heart rate. So that's the whole one one hour or 15 minutes racing. So basically, what I discovered is when I run, there's what we call a lactic acid delta. Mine builds up at what we call the zone 2 heart rate, which is kind of odd. So people will see me when I do the testing and I follow the rank protocol, people will see me as unfit because basically at a aerobic heart rate, I'm putting out 9.9 mmol of lactase, which is really high. Now, when I once I hit 108 beats per minute, the funny thing is my heart rate is basically flushing it. So once I hit 180 beats per minute, my lactate will be basically 1.5, 0.8. So I'm not producing lactic acid at a high heart rate. But that comes now into a difference because my heart is pumping out at a really high revolution. Doctors have diagnosed me with basically what they call right venticular hypertrophy because my heart rate is so high during competition that one of my ventricles basically enlarged. So yeah, it's basically different physiology. And like I said, but going back to me studying physiotherapy, everything on the book, it's correct, guys. That's why we studied it for four or five years, and some even seven years if they have a doctorate degree. But there are people that are
Psychological Limits Beat Physiological Ceilings
SPEAKER_01outliers, and funny, it's funny enough, I didn't know it's this. So it's just basically the way it is. And when I race, I always maintain high heart rate, like 180 right off the block. So I have to sprint hard to raise my heart rate. Because if I go anything lower than that, that's where the suffering happens for me in terms of muscular skill eat only.
SPEAKER_00Like I said, at the the time that was quite amazing. And for me, just hearing that, you know, hitting mite, what is pretty much my max heart rate is where you need to start. So watching you kick off a race, run the first hundred meters, first 5k, you have to be out in front and really get yourself going. There's none of this uh slow pace that that you can do. I just think it's fantastic to hear it. But what it also brings back for for this conversation is what it means to be fair to yourself, what it means to recognize the talent that you have, and how you know, therefore, to to best demonstrate that and make use of it. And you know, I really get that sense from you in this conversation. It's like, well, hey, this this makes you that anomaly, that makes you that outlier. Okay, how do you best use that outlier? What can you give um, you know, give give for that? And I I just think it's it's great. So I've I've really enjoyed this conversation, Joseph. It's been uh it's it's just been fascinating hearing your perspective. Um, I'm I'm curious then. I know that you teach as well, you bring people along the journey, um, you know, from a physio perspective, but also in sport. When your students or people come to you and ask you questions about how can I you know achieve that potential, how can I do my best, what kind of advice and guidance do you give them from your perspective?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, usually I always just tell them one thing. It's basically just enjoy the process and be honest to the sport because that's what I always do. Be honest to the sessions. If you're doing a session currently and you don't feel good, and that's the most that you can bring out of it, don't let the numbers hold you back. Because it depends. The heart rate may tell you you don't feel good, but physically you're there, and it's the other way around. So always stay present and never basically never set anything in stone. And this is probably the most weirdest way people will think it, but be flexible, be flexible because adaptability is one of the greatest to success. You got life. You're not just an athlete, you're a father, you're an employee, you're a boss, you're a husband, you're a brother, you're a son. So basically, being present in those all facets helps you become a better athlete. Because people think you have to be really selfish, but you have to have the holistic part of it.
SPEAKER_00Joseph, I like that. Thanks very much. Now you're quite active on social media for those listening and watching who want to follow your journey or even get in touch. Where's the best place to find you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically on Facebook. So I have my Facebook, basically it's my whole name, John Joseph Ogacion. And then if you want to follow me professionally, which is always, let's say, a lot of my posts is about combining sport and career, getting sales target, those things, they can follow me in LinkedIn. So that's the same name also. It's gonna be John Joseph Ogacion.
SPEAKER_00Good man, Joseph. Thanks for joining us on the show today and bringing your perspective to this story. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for listening to the Second Win podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers. If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwin.io for more information or to book a consultation with me. I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions, and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together. That's all from me. Take it easy until next time.
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